There is currently life on the moon.

[Tom Tearcamel]

Yeah, for the first time in my lifetime at least; there is definitely life in space, and I think it’s super cool. This week the Chinese space program put a terrarium with some silk worm eggs and plants on the far side of the moon. Here in the US, I haven’t heard anything about it in normie media. (I follow some science YouTubers) So next time you look up at the moon, remember there are Chinese Moths doing science there now.

[wumpus]

Yeah, for the first time in my lifetime at least; there is definitely life in space, and I think it’s super cool. This week the Chinese space program put a terrarium with some silk worm eggs and plants on the far side of the moon. Here in the US, I haven’t heard anything about it in normie media. (I follow some science YouTubers) So next time you look up at the moon, remember there are Chinese Moths doing science there now.

There has been human life in space (aboard the ISS) continuously since sometime in 2000.

There is probably life on most probes not designed to land on other planets/moons (they aren't as decontaminated as thoroughly as those that land). There's a reason that the Juno probe is scheduled to crash into Jupiter: they don't want any Earth bacteria clinging to it to land on moons that could be infected by Earth life.

But it is always heartening to *know* exactly what life is on the Moon.

[Tom Tearcamel]

True enough. Probably plenty of spores on other equipment, but I like the idea of Moon Wyms turning into Mothra after many generations.

[Brother Oni]

True enough. Probably plenty of spores on other equipment, but I like the idea of Moon Wyms turning into Mothra after many generations.

Does that mean we need to start looking for twin Japanese sisters soon?

[LordEntrails]

Here in the US, I haven’t heard anything about it in normie media. (I follow some science YouTubers)

Don't know what YouTubers you are referring to, but if you are actually concerned with journalistic integrity and want info about space related topics, goto https://www.space.com/

[Xyril]

Don't know what YouTubers you are referring to, but if you are actually concerned with journalistic integrity and want info about space related topics, goto https://www.space.com/

When somebody's tossing about terms like "normie media," I suspect journalistic integrity might not be a priority.

space.com is pretty great though.

[Razade]

Don't know what YouTubers you are referring to, but if you are actually concerned with journalistic integrity and want info about space related topics, goto https://www.space.com/

The click bait-y thread title didn't make me too hopeful for the general integrity of the journalism involved.

[snowblizz]

Am I the only one whose first thought was "man the Chinese are totally misunderstanding Matt Damon in the Martian".

Also I am not going to be at all surprised when that same "argument" will be used in 5-10 years time totally seriously.

[Eldan]

Am I the only one whose first thought was "man the Chinese are totally misunderstanding Matt Damon in the Martian".

You mean the moon is now ruled by a race of moth pirates?

[snowblizz]

You mean the moon is now ruled by a race of moth pirates?

So, noone else has heard the bit about planting potatoes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-...where-40272873

[Traab]

Does that mean we need to start looking for twin Japanese sisters soon?

Somewhat relevant.

[gomipile]

Thread-relevant news:

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/15/68544...s-lunar-lander

[deuterio12]

Quite great news!

[gomipile]

The lunar night has killed the plants, ending the experiment. The plant capsule wasn't heated, so this was a planned end, not an accident.

And now we say goodbye moon plants.
We say goodbye moon plants.
Goodbye moon plants.
Goodbye moon plants.
Oh goodbye.

[halfeye]

The lunar night has killed the plants, ending the experiment. The plant capsule wasn't heated, so this was a planned end, not an accident.

And now we say goodbye moon plants.
We say goodbye moon plants.
Goodbye moon plants.
Goodbye moon plants.
Oh goodbye.

I loathe this "if we want a new one, we have to ditch the old one" syndrome. It's wrong when NASA do it, and I don't approve of anyone else doing it either. I understand that it's a funding model, that it's based on the taxpayers being suckers, and that it's a general thing with governments because it makes the private sector money, but it's wrong.

[mucat]

I loathe this "if we want a new one, we have to ditch the old one" syndrome. It's wrong when NASA do it, and I don't approve of anyone else doing it either. I understand that it's a funding model, that it's based on the taxpayers being suckers, and that it's a general thing with governments because it makes the private sector money, but it's wrong.

Wait; I'm confused. How does this follow from the moon plant discussion?

[warmachine]

Why would anyone test if plants can survive lunar night temperatures without heating on the Moon? That can be tested on Earth.

[monomer]

Why would anyone test if plants can survive lunar night temperatures without heating on the Moon? That can be tested on Earth.

They weren't testing whether they can survive lunar nights. They were testing to see if they could even grow correctly and photosynthesize with the significantly lower gravity and high exposure to radiation.

[halfeye]

Wait; I'm confused. How does this follow from the moon plant discussion?

They deliberately killed the plants.

[Lord Torath]

They deliberately killed the plants.

Yes. All they wanted to do was see if they could get seeds to sprout. The experiment was a success. Did you want them to set up a permanent terrarium? Before spending billions of dollars to set that up, they decided to spend one hundred thousand* to see if that is even a feasible idea. A permanent terrarium would require substantially more engineering, power, insulation, nutrients, etc. And before they sent up this experiment, they didn't even know if the seeds would grow.

*cost here is an estimate, assuming high engineering and fabrication costs, and your standard $10,000-per-pound launch costs.

[Ravens_cry]

This is hardly the first time a biological experiment has reached a planned terminal end. Sputnik 2 was not designed to return the canine occupant alive, though the poor creature had a much faster ending than anticipated due to overheating issues.

[Eldan]

They deliberately killed the plants.

How would they have kept them alive? Flying a nuclear reactor up there just to heat them and give them sufficient light for two weeks would be rather silly. And not the purpose of the experiment.

[Kato]

I am not an expert but I feel like building this probe with the ability to maintain an okay temperature would have been the easier / cheaper option compared to sending another one for the next stage. Getting stuff in space is expensive, why not make something better instead of sending junk. (slight exaggeration) not to say I'm unhappy with the results, but I would be much happier with "how far can we grow them"

[Eldan]

You have to remember that it is estimated to cost about 20'000 dollars to get one kg of matter into orbit. Exponentially more to get it to the moon.

And then you have to remember that every part of the moon is dark for half the month. No plant is going to survive 14 days of darkness. At least, not easily. Sending up the electrical equipment to provide adequate light and heat, nevermind nutrients, water, etc. would be prohibitively expensive.

You'd need insulation, a reactor (or some truly massive batteries), sunlight lamps, tanks of water and nutrients, an entire hydroponic setup, probably CO2 tanks... and then probably cooling for that reactor, and of course the fuel to lift all that to orbit... you'd add millions to the mission. Many millions. Instead of just a bit of substrate, some water to dampen it, a small insulated chamber and a window.

[Kato]

I think you're going a bit too far. I don't want a green house but more something like a moon lander that will sustain them for a while. Again, I don't know anything here for certain but...
Really tight insulation can be heavy but just looking at Apollo 11's lander weighing 'only' 5 tons and requiring to be much bigger, I feel like their one ton vehicle could have been built smaller but with similar level of insulation.

Then again, temperature regulation in space is always tricky, but I don't think you need a reactor for a small container, and batteries that can give light for a month and get charged by solar panels should not be a big deal.
Again, I don't want to grow them to maturity, so you just need some water to keep them wet and I'm guessing the container was full of air anyway so why not make it CO2? (assuming plants grow in full CO2 atmosphere but I'm sure somebody checked that)

[Eldan]

I wouldn't be so sure. Even a smallish high intensity growth light easily pulls some 600-1000 Watts. That's a lot of battery. You could do an LED of a hundred Watt or less, but that has problems all of its own (such as space: you need to keep them some 30 cm away from the plants, so that requires a bigger compartment.)

And no, plants don't grow in a full CO2 atmosphere. Plants breathe, too, they don't just photosynthesize. So they need appropriate partial pressures of oxygen, too.

[halfeye]

They deliberately killed the plants.

They kept the seeds alive from Earth to the Moon. That is non-trivial but they did it. They kept the plants alive until sunset.

I'm pretty sure that compared to that, enough insulation to keep them warm enough to survive for two weeks wasn't impossible. Whatever.

It just seems to be part of this "If you don't spend all of your budget this year, we'll cut your budget next year" sickness.

[Kato]

I wouldn't be so sure. Even a smallish high intensity growth light easily pulls some 600-1000 Watts. That's a lot of battery. You could do an LED of a hundred Watt or less, but that has problems all of its own (such as space: you need to keep them some 30 cm away from the plants, so that requires a bigger compartment.)

And no, plants don't grow in a full CO2 atmosphere. Plants breathe, too, they don't just photosynthesize. So they need appropriate partial pressures of oxygen, too.

I'm not a gardener so I really don't know what kind of artificial lighting plants require... Obviously you want to use LEDs because you want light, not another heater, but I don't know how well plants grow in LED light or how much power you'd need. Though, 1st law of thermodynamic says at least as much as they need to do their stuff but again, I habe no idea how much that it.

Well, they make their own soon enough... they mostly need water and carbon, or am I very wrong? Then again, I guess they need a lot of carbon(?)

It just seems to be part of this "If you don't spend all of your budget this year, we'll cut your budget next year" sickness.

Or... they were afraid to fail. They were confident the plants would sprout, so, huzzah, good news, everyone is happy. If the next stage fails: Oops, er, no, you totally didn't waste money. I mean, the first stage worked, right? We didn't aim for anything 'hard'.

[gomipile]

I am not an expert but I feel like building this probe with the ability to maintain an okay temperature would have been the easier / cheaper option compared to sending another one for the next stage.

What if they didn't know what to send for the next stage until getting the data from this stage?

Remember, the plants weren't the only/primary mission of this lander. They sent what they had the budget for, and now they know something about what will germinate in those conditions.

[halfeye]

Or... they were afraid to fail.

And they were afraid to fail?