Avengers: Endgame

[Erys]

I never say that. Now you're putting words in my mouth.

Actually, that is exactly what you said.

Recap quotes:

what media is an exception to your 'please me or you suck' philosophy?

Anime, Toxic shows (such as Judge Judy.) Reality Shows. That about it.

But, whatever...

[Dragonus45]

I mean, everyone has their own odd standards that they want to judge media with. It’s hardly worth making a big thing out of it just because it doesn’t make sense to you unless it’s particularly egregiously stupid and/or starts to gain traction as a legitimate criticism. Like the whole “Infity War justifies domestic violence” crowd or the unironic “Thanos was right people.”

[Legato Endless]

Actually, that is exactly what you said.

Recap quotes:


But, whatever...

I think the reason OP said that wasn't because those media were acceptable places for that usage but rather they don't watch those kinds of media at all, considering this followed the comment about Order of the Stick.

Personal bias might be coloring my interpretation here as I'm not a fan of the last two categories either. (Anime is fine)

[Lizard Lord]

Am I the only one that's thinking that although (obviously) they are going to bring back those that died in the snap, not all of the people that survived the snap are going to make it out of Endgame?

[Kitten Champion]

I think the reason OP said that wasn't because those media were acceptable places for that usage but rather they don't watch those kinds of media at all, considering this followed the comment about Order of the Stick.

Personal bias might be coloring my interpretation here as I'm not a fan of the last two categories either. (Anime is fine)

Okay, but isn't that just saying it's never acceptable insofar as the media in question is already viewed intrinsically as poor and beneath you?

It's not actually softening the opinion by providing mitigating circumstances to where it's more acceptable, so much as just reinforcing it with another prejudice.

Am I the only one that's thinking that although (obviously) they are going to bring back those that died in the snap, not all of the people that survived the snap are going to make it out of Endgame?

I would even say it's reasonably likely, given contractual concerns with the aging actors and Disney/Marvel ready to press on with new individual Marvel IPs.

...and ignoring of meta-concerns, it's also the big epic conclusion to their Event movie that most everyone is going to see. If there was ever a stage for a dramatic character death this is it.

[Legato Endless]

Okay, but isn't that just saying it's never acceptable insofar as the media in question is already viewed intrinsically as poor and beneath you?

It's not actually softening the opinion by providing mitigating circumstances to where it's more acceptable, so much as just reinforcing it with another prejudice.

One presumes yes. Clarification doesn't always lead to somewhere more defensible. I just trying to figure why Bartmanhomer felt he'd been misquoted.

I also don't think OPs view is that uncommon among his age group, as I assume he's a lot younger than you or I based on his writing style.

[Rodin]

I would even say it's reasonably likely, given contractual concerns with the aging actors and Disney/Marvel ready to press on with new individual Marvel IPs.

...and ignoring of meta-concerns, it's also the big epic conclusion to their Event movie that most everyone is going to see. If there was ever a stage for a dramatic character death this is it.

The most notable thing here is that all of the original Avengers survived. This allows them to have their big swansong before getting offed in Endgame, or even just retiring the cape.

[Keltest]

The most notable thing here is that all of the original Avengers survived. This allows them to have their big swansong before getting offed in Endgame, or even just retiring the cape.

My bets are that Stark retires, Steve dies, Hawkeye and Black Widow ride off into the sunset (not necessarily together), Hulk goes on Hulking, and Thor figures out some way to bring back the Asgardian refugees and continues to lead them, because theres no way theyre just completely shutting them down like that.

[Darth Ultron]

[SPOILER=All the spoilers]

Long story short. I expected plenty more. As is, I'm just left disliking almost everyone in the MCU.

The big problem is they really needed at least three more movies BEFORE Infinity War. Like:

Avengers:Zodiac-This would be the ''fix'' civil war movie. Everyone becomes friends again. Everyone meets everyone else, like Spider Man and Doc Strange....and then you have the Zodiac as villains.

Thantos: Dark Awakening(or really Infinity Gauntlet)-A straightforward Thantos movie with history and details.

Guardians of the Galaxy 3:Starlost- THIS movie ramps up Thantos doing things in the modern day. The guardians fight mostly his minions, and travel to Earth and meet some Avengers/others.

Then, get to Avengers Infinity War.

My bets are that Stark retires, Steve dies, Hawkeye and Black Widow ride off into the sunset (not necessarily together), Hulk goes on Hulking, and Thor figures out some way to bring back the Asgardian refugees and continues to lead them, because theres no way theyre just completely shutting them down like that.

I bet both cap and iron man die...maybe get a great ''well, for a moment I thought we were in trouble" ending. Hawkeye and Widow likely get injured and have to retire. Hulk wanders away. Thor either loses his power or dies or becomes king of Asgard.

The point is they MUST get rid of the old plain male Marvel heroes to make room for all the multi colored and gender ones to comes in and take their names and places. So we get Urban America, Iron Girl, Thor Girl, Blacker Widow, She Hulk(or, er, the red lady Hulk) and Echo(not Hawkeye).

[Keltest]

I bet both cap and iron man die...maybe get a great ''well, for a moment I thought we were in trouble" ending. Hawkeye and Widow likely get injured and have to retire. Hulk wanders away. Thor either loses his power or dies or becomes king of Asgard.

The point is they MUST get rid of the old plain male Marvel heroes to make room for all the multi colored and gender ones to comes in and take their names and places. So we get Urban America, Iron Girl, Thor Girl, Blacker Widow, She Hulk(or, er, the red lady Hulk) and Echo(not Hawkeye).

They've been playing up Tony and Pepper's relationship ups and downs too much I think to actually completely off him like that. Let him finally calm down, get over his PTSD and retire from being Iron Man.

[GloatingSwine]

They've been playing up Tony and Pepper's relationship ups and downs too much I think to actually completely off him like that. Let him finally calm down, get over his PTSD and retire from being Iron Man.

On the other hand, RDJ is going to be increasingly expensive to use, and a casting call for "off-brand replacement RDJ" is not going to get them very far so recasting is a dead end.

(The reality of actors getting older and the primacy of the movies is going to be the thing that breaks the fifty years of stasis Marvel Comics have been in roughly since the introduction of Franklin Richards, who has been variously five to eight years old since about 1972)

[Keltest]

On the other hand, RDJ is going to be increasingly expensive to use, and a casting call for "off-brand replacement RDJ" is not going to get them very far so recasting is a dead end.

(The reality of actors getting older and the primacy of the movies is going to be the thing that breaks the fifty years of stasis Marvel Comics have been in roughly since the introduction of Franklin Richards, who has been variously five to eight years old since about 1972)

Is there some reason that retirement rather than death means they need to continue having him in films?

[GloatingSwine]

Is there some reason that retirement rather than death means they need to continue having him in films?

I'm pretty sure even death wouldn't stop him showing up in cameos.

I do expect at least one or two of the originals to bite it. Probably Cap and Iron Man. Chris Evans previously said he wanted to move into directing and contracts are ending. (Also why they're likely to do a Black Widow movie sooner rather than later, so they can do it before they have to renegotiate with Scarlett Johansen).

I expect they'll keep Thor around because they just figured out what to do with him. I wouldn't be surprised if he migrates to the Guardians of the Galaxy though.

Nobody has ever cared about Hawkeye, so he's either for the chop or retiring for real.

Hulk will stay as a supporting character unless they get the full rights back from Universal.

[Lizard Lord]

The thing is a real superhero doesn't stay retired when the entire planet Earth is in danger and there is bound to be at least one moment where it will look like the New Avengers are about to lose. Heck both Tony and Clint had already retired and it didn't stick then either.

I suppose Thor could retire as King of Asgard as long as he does so away from Earth. Even if there are intergalactic threats the galaxy is a big place and it is reasonable that they would just not run into Thor's domain.


Also I cared about Hawkeye (at least since Age of Ultron. I know its not exactly everyone's favorite Avengers movie, but I liked what it did with his character at the very least.) Remember that Infinity War was the only Avengers movie where Hawkeye didn't fight alongside the others and look what happened.

[GloatingSwine]

The thing is a real superhero doesn't stay retired

Yeah, but real actors do, and for a series this big a recast will always be the lesser alternative.

Nobody who is serious about wanting a career in film is going to raise their hand to being the Brand Ecch version of Robert Downey Jr.

It just isn't going to happen.

When they retire, or Disney stops wanting to pay them all that much, their characters are over in film.

And that's no problem, because third tier nobodies like Black Panther and actual internet joke characters like Aquaman are both billion dollar pulls now.

[Erloas]

I don't know... they're re-booting Pirates without Jonny Depp so I'm going to say any casting choices are possible.

I'm also going to say that just because a character is killed off in the next movie doesn't mean that they're never going to have them in another movie. Alternate realties, branching timelines, and one-off stories are all common in comics and have all happened in various iterations of Marvel movies already.

[Darth Ultron]

I'm pretty sure even death wouldn't stop him showing up in cameos.

It's not like ''death" means anything in a Comic...or Comic book based movie. Even if they do ''really" kill of Tony for ''real" he can always come back as a memory, vision, AI or Infinity Ghost.

And there is always CGI characters......

The point is to more remove them from the Active MCU. But ''retire" does not really work so well. Because if you have Avengers: Doomsday in 2020 with the Earth about to blow up it's just dumb to say ''oh Iron Man is right over there on the beach with his mark 9000 super-godforce armor, but we won't ask him for help as he is retired....well will just have to hope Iron Gender Neutral Sue Person can save the day.

Just like they did in the comics, Marvel wants to make all it's characters 'cool, new, hip, young..........and different." And to do that, they need to get rid of the old ones.

And, see, current Marvel does not have the will and ability to think up of new ideas. So like they want to make ''character X", the only think they can think of is ''kill Iron Man" and then slap the Iron Person label on character x. It's simply too hard for them to just ''make" a new character.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't know... they're re-booting Pirates without Jonny Depp so I'm going to say any casting choices are possible.

I'm also going to say that just because a character is killed off in the next movie doesn't mean that they're never going to have them in another movie. Alternate realties, branching timelines, and one-off stories are all common in comics and have all happened in various iterations of Marvel movies already.

Are they recasting Jack Sparrow, or just making a Pirates movie without him? We're talking about something like the former - no actor could ever be more than Discount Jack Sparrow with how completely Johnny Depp has defined the character.

[Erloas]

Are they recasting Jack Sparrow, or just making a Pirates movie without him? We're talking about something like the former - no actor could ever be more than Discount Jack Sparrow with how completely Johnny Depp has defined the character.

Yeah, it just isn't Pirates without him. I understand the issues with his personal life, and Disney not wanting to retire a 5+billion dollar franchise, but I'm just not sure it will be "Pirates" rather than "some other movie with a pirate theme"

As for who would be taking over for Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow in the Pirates of the Caribbean reboot, it is believed that Redd, the current star of the Disneyland and Disney World ride will take the lead. Redd is the new pirate who took over the controversial wench auction scene, which was recently changed. Redd has been incorporated into the park as well, and has become a popular cast member wandering amongst selfie-hungry tourists. It's pretty clear that Disney has some other plans for Redd that go beyond the ride.

[Dragonus45]

Really the whole franchise since the first movie has been a slow descent downhill and that last movie was phoned in to whole new levels for everyone involved. I’m more surprised to hear they are making a new Pirates movie at all let alone one without Sparrow.

[Keltest]

Really the whole franchise since the first movie has been a slow descent downhill and that last movie was phoned in to whole new levels for everyone involved. I’m more surprised to hear they are making a new Pirates movie at all let alone one without Sparrow.

Who knows? Maybe without sparrow, they'll have to actually come up with something clever for the movie to be about?

[ben-zayb]

In the event that some OG Avengers survive but are left in a combat-incapable capacity (aka Stark will most likely have to die), each future Marvel movie can have a cameo of one of them. Most of phase 4 movies going forward won't have a Stan Lee cameo for obvious reasons, so this could be somewhat a respectful continuation of tradition.

[Velaryon]

I think the three most likely characters to die (in no particular order) are Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor. Those are the three most expensive contracts, and Chris Evans at least has expressed interest in moving on to other projects.

Plus, all three characters have been replaced in their roles at various times in the comics. Depending on how hard Marvel wants to keep one of these franchises around, they could bring in some of the legacy characters. Heck, haven't Bucky Barnes and Sam Wilson both been Captain America at one time or another?

I sincerely doubt we'll get lady Thor, since Natalie Portman seems to be done with the franchise and I don't see them recasting the role of Jane Foster. While they have recast roles in the past, the most prominent is probably War Machine who is like a C-tier hero even in the MCU, and less than that in the comics.

If there's a full recast and reboot, I don't think it will happen until the current continuity begins to run out of steam, and there's no sign of that so far. If anything, they'll just shift focus to the more recent heroes, and start introducing some of the ones they've recently got back from Fox.

[Erloas]

I think the three most likely characters to die (in no particular order) are Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor. Those are the three most expensive contracts, and Chris Evans at least has expressed interest in moving on to other projects.

The cost of the contract only really matters if the films don't make a lot. Paying your top actor/actress $5M instead of $25M doesn't really help your bottom line if your movie makes $250M instead of $700M.


Of all the characters, I think Thor has the most potential for story. Any sort of "Chronicles of Thor" type moves could cover any point in his past, and unless it directly ties into the very recent history of the Earth, about their only limit on what can happen is that Thor and other main characters (Odin, Loki, etc) can't die in those.

We can also see from the most recent Spider Man movie, they don't really have any issues with alternate universes. Logan was also not really in the same universe as the other X-Men movies either, or at least most things seem to indicate that it was it's own unique time-line.

[Kitten Champion]

As much as a Pirates of the Caribbean reboot sounds like tiresome Hollywood grasping at successful IPs with their dying breath, if they genuinely move past the Depp-era of increasingly cartoonish antics and all the surprisingly heavy PotC continuity back to just trying to produce a classic pirate adventure... I wouldn't mind. Those kinds of movies can have a solid timeless quality to them when done well and the heart of the first PotC's success was it delivering that kind of anachronistic Hollywood experience. Rather than continue banking on Depp's quirky acting to cover over everything - which obviously didn't add up to much for Disney's Lone Ranger - they can go back to that initial spark of inspiration and make just a fun pirate movie.

I find it... interesting, I guess, that they're looking at the actual PotC park attraction to shop around ideas for the movie. I'm not sure how well those mediums cross over between one another.

[Erloas]

I find it... interesting, I guess, that they're looking at the actual PotC park attraction to shop around ideas for the movie. I'm not sure how well those mediums cross over between one another.

From what I understand, the first movie was simply based on the ride at the park and the story was just made up from that general theme. I'm not sure how much is clear in the part I quoted, but it was my understanding that they added the Redd character to the park ride fairly recently, assumedly in anticipation of the new movie. So people are assuming she'll be the new main character, but I don't think there is anything official yet.

[The Glyphstone]

From what I understand, the first movie was simply based on the ride at the park and the story was just made up from that general theme. I'm not sure how much is clear in the part I quoted, but it was my understanding that they added the Redd character to the park ride fairly recently, assumedly in anticipation of the new movie. So people are assuming she'll be the new main character, but I don't think there is anything official yet.

If it's the Redd I remember/have read about, she was there from the beginning as the 'main attraction' in the 'wench auction' that they've rebuilt/removed. She was redesigned to be a pirate herself in the process, either before or after the auction scene got reworked. Caveat that is is just based on stuff I'm reading online and may be garbled/misremembered/incorrect.

[Starwulf]

I'm guessing you must absolutely loathe season-end cliffhangars, Bartmanhomer.



...

There are people on the forum that don't read the webcomic that the forum exists because of?

Well, I must confess to being slightly surprised. You learn summat new every day.

I mean, granted, this is arguably the best place now for general D&D stuff once WotC and later enworld (I think) keeled, but...

I read the comic now, but I was originally brought over to this forum from the old bethesda "General Discussions" forum when a member there that was also a member here started a RP game that sounded kinda fun(even if I knew virtually nothing about the premise, which is Star Wars). It took more than year(maybe even 2-3) before I checked out the comic, wasn't a fan of the art style to begin with. Eventually I gave it 100 pages to convince me it was worth reading, and was definitely hooked by the end of it.

[Battleship789]

It's actually the other way 'round, if I'm remembering my history lessons right. The comic was made to drum up interest and attract people to the forum. Of course, generally people come here for the comic first nowadays, I imagine, but it's clear that the original part of it (RPG discussion) still certainly makes up a huge facet of the population.

I do find it surprising that there are people who don't read the comic much, since it seems to appeal to the same demographic, but, as we have seen, those people do exist.

Close but not quite. The comic was created to spark interest into Rich's gaming articles. (Source, first OotS book forward.) I doubt many of the people on the forum even know they exist, let alone have read them.

[The Glyphstone]

Im still sad he will never finish his series on how to build a setting step by step.