Avengers: Endgame

[Rodin]

See, I didn't even know it was a two parter (or if I had heard, I forgot by the time I saw it). This is where avoiding trailers and early movie speculation helps, I guess. I went in with no preconceptions other than "this is the big end-all beat-all showdown we've been building up to since the first Avengers movie". There was always a possibility in my mind that they would wrap it up in a single movie.

[Erloas]

Not that I watch TV to see any commercials, but it is always why any movie idea I do hear about that I'm interested in, I make sure to avoid anything about it. It is always why I avoid all the OOTS speculation threads too. I would much rather watch a story unfold on its own without knowing anything that is going to happen.

[The_Ditto]

apart from Thanos' nonsensical motivation.

It's based on a comic book .. not many have villains having anything other than a nonsensical motivation!!! LOL
:)

[Keltest]

It's based on a comic book .. not many have villains having anything other than a nonsensical motivation!!! LOL
:)

I like that the movie cops to Thanos being a lunatic. Its a lot more refreshing than groups like Hydra with their nebulous goals for doing something nonspecific.

[Devonix]

I like that the movie cops to Thanos being a lunatic. Its a lot more refreshing than groups like Hydra with their nebulous goals for doing something nonspecific.

Ehh at least thr comic actions matched his motivation better. Movie thanos doesn't come across qs crazy, he comes across as stupid.

[Legato Endless]

At the risk of being crucified by both sides, I wouldn't rate Thanos as the best antagonist of Phase 3, nor would I place his comic book counterpart in my top ten for greatest Marvel villians.

I haven't really commented in all the discussion about his motivation as my primary enjoyment of Infinity War was focused elsewhere. Which isn't to dunk on anyone who did, I just wasn't very engaged with it this time.

[Eldan]

It's based on a comic book .. not many have villains having anything other than a nonsensical motivation!!! LOL
:)

Eh, in the comics (from what I've read in various forum discussions), it's megalomaniacal and insane, but it makes sense. Well, comic/fantasy sense. In love with an anthropomorphic incarnation of a concept? Sure. I can buy that.

But I can't really buy the idea of an interstellar warlord who has never seen a population curve. Or who has so little grasp of statistics that he can't understand that killing half the population won't increase welfare.

[Tyndmyr]

Ehh at least thr comic actions matched his motivation better. Movie thanos doesn't come across qs crazy, he comes across as stupid.

In fairness, that sort of craziness can come with a certain degree of stupidity. Check out crazy conspiracy sorts in the real world. Flat earthers or what not. There is no small amount of intellectual holes that they stretch to ignore or paper over in pursuit of the crazy.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

This didn't bother me personally, but I get where Devonix is coming from. If Thanos seems crazy to start with he's a more straight up force of bad stuff that needs to be stopped, if Thanos seems like a reasonable person you have to think about his plan, maybe even his motivations to tell if what he wants to do is bad, and we all know that one person who fails that particular intelligence roll and starts defending Thanos. It makes the whole thing feel more like a matter of opinion. Should the galaxy be genocided? Maybe, who knows? Why is there not a single Avenger asking themselves these existential questions? While if he seems like a clear madman it comes across as more natural that of course everybody wants to stop him and nobody listens to his speeches. He's barking mad! EDIT: And also possibly a bigger threat on an intellectual level, ironically enough. Because he's mad, not stupid. But as I said, for me Thanos worked.

[Florian]

apart from Thanos' nonsensical motivation.

Thanos is actually one of the few villains who`s motivation makes sense on the scale we're talking about.

It showcases the weak spot of our form of democracy, if you so want: When we have a choice, no one choses the hard way. People only go for the hard way when we have run out of choices.

As an example, answer a simple question: Should be develop alternatives before we run out of fossil oil or should we develop a follow-up technology after we have run out of fossil oil?

In reality, we all know that A is true but for various reasons, we will go with B.

[Magic_Hat]

It's based on a comic book .. not many have villains having anything other than a nonsensical motivation!!! LOL
:)

Because comic books are just silly little books for kids and manchildren - it's not like it's a real medium. It's just superheroes and one dimensional villains. It's not there are comic book writers/artists that deal in other genres.

In all seriousness, I may have a low opinion of the MCU, but Endgame kind of has me hyped. I mean so many things happened in Infinity War. How will it conclude? What will change and what will be permanent? Is this the final hour for the Avengers?

Spoiler: Infinity War

Show

So many characters died in Infinity War...ARE THEY GONE FOR GOOD?

I'm on the edge of my - oh wait there's a trailer for a new film on youtube. A film coming out after Endgame that's in/related to the MCU:

Spoiler: Far From Home.

Show

Well I guess Thanos is defeated and Spider-Man and Nick Fury are brought back to life. Way to spoil your own film Marvel! There are a lot of trailers that spoiler their own movie, but I think it's unprecedented a trailer spoilers another film.

I have to ask and I'm not trying to sound cynical what do people see in these films? Even from a pure action popcorn film standpoint you know how these films are gonna end so how can even action scenes be enjoyable? There's no tension.

[Keltest]

Because comic books are just silly little books for kids and manchildren - it's not like it's a real medium. It's just superheroes and one dimensional villains. It's not there are comic book writers/artists that deal in other genres.

In all seriousness, I may have a low opinion of the MCU, but Endgame kind of has me hyped. I mean so many things happened in Infinity War. How will it conclude? What will change and what will be permanent? Is this the final hour for the Avengers?

Spoiler: Infinity War

Show

So many characters died in Infinity War...ARE THEY GONE FOR GOOD?

I'm on the edge of my - oh wait there's a trailer for a new film on youtube. A film coming out after Endgame that's in/related to the MCU:

Spoiler: Far From Home.

Show

Well I guess Thanos is defeated and Spider-Man and Nick Fury are brought back to life. Way to spoil your own film Marvel! There are a lot of trailers that spoiler their own movie, but I think it's unprecedented a trailer spoilers another film.

I have to ask and I'm not trying to sound cynical what do people see in these films? Even from a pure action popcorn film standpoint you know how these films are gonna end so how can even action scenes be enjoyable? There's no tension.

Its about the journey, not the destination. How they eventually win is significantly more important than whether they do.

[Wookieetank]

I have to ask and I'm not trying to sound cynical what do people see in these films? Even from a pure action popcorn film standpoint you know how these films are gonna end so how can even action scenes be enjoyable? There's no tension.

There's no real tension in comedies either. Sometimes things are just fun and entertaining, not everything has to have tension to be enjoyable. Once Die Hard started getting sequels we knew how they were gonna end, doesn't mean its not fun finding out How they turn out that way.

I watch Marvel movies for the character arcs, and how they change (or don't) over the course of the challenges they face. That and I'm a sucker for flashy fight scenes.

[Lizard Lord]

I mean don't you usually know how most movies end? That seems about as fair of a criticism as "you know its not real right?"

[Erloas]

I thought one of the parts that made the MCU movies good is that while you know the protagonist win, what that victory actually looks like is unknown. Especially when you pull it all together, including Agents of Shield. There were plenty of victories where things were worse off than they started.

[Aotrs Commander]

I'm on the edge of my - oh wait there's a trailer for a new film on youtube. A film coming out after Endgame that's in/related to the MCU:

Spoiler: Far From Home.

Show

Well I guess Thanos is defeated and Spider-Man and Nick Fury are brought back to life. Way to spoil your own film Marvel! There are a lot of trailers that spoiler their own movie, but I think it's unprecedented a trailer spoilers another film.

I have to ask and I'm not trying to sound cynical what do people see in these films? Even from a pure action popcorn film standpoint you know how these films are gonna end so how can even action scenes be enjoyable? There's no tension.

Again, did you actually really believe that Marvel was going to permenantly kill characters that have already long-planned upcoming movies?

This is literally no different to a mid-season cliffhanger for a TV series. Hell, even a regular action sequence, or can't you enjoy any of those in a series, because you know that, because the actors have jobs, that Captain Kirk/Colonel O'Neill/Horatio Caine/William Murdoch/Supergirl/Flash/Green Arrow is not going to actually die (permenantly) this episode fighting the Klingons/Goa'uld/serial killer/serial killer/Raine/uh...Zoom?/I-don't-know-I-only-see-Arrow-though-the-crossovers¹, because there's another episode next week?

(Or Doctor Who, where you know, pretty much months in advance, the only time the Doctor is going to die (and no matter how often Space Astronauts kill him, you know it's going to be resolved by the end of the arc).)



¹By-the-by, Elseworlds was fracking great and given the current topic I won't say more than that...

[Florian]

To use an analogy, in Germany, we have the long running TV series of Tatort, your basic crime series. Basically, each member state is in on the franchise and sports a couple of characters and locations that will always be recurring. It´s basically a given that each team will mostly solve their crimes, no suspense there, the fun is in watching each teams style, which are very distinctive, the follow up on the individual character progress that happens along the series and is primarily keyed to each team.

[Aotrs Commander]

To use an analogy, in Germany, we have the long running TV series of Tatort, your basic crime series. Basically, each member state is in on the franchise and sports a couple of characters and locations that will always be recurring. It´s basically a given that each team will mostly solve their crimes, no suspense there, the fun is in watching each teams style, which are very distinctive, the follow up on the individual character progress that happens along the series and is primarily keyed to each team.

Exactly. Like Keltest said earlier, journey, not destination.

[GloatingSwine]

The ultimate example of that is Columbo.

Where the audience knows who dunnit from the start and the entertainment is in watching Peter Falk badger and annoy them into admitting it.

[The_Ditto]

I mean don't you usually know how most movies end? That seems about as fair of a criticism as "you know its not real right?"

He never watched Titanic, obviously .. :)

[Devonix]

He never watched Titanic, obviously .. :)

I thought Infinity War was just ok for many reasons, but knowing how it ends... If knowing how a film ends means it's not a good movie, then there would never be a reason to watch a film more than once.

[MikelaC1]

I as well was surprised by how IW ended. I thought for sure it was going to be Thanos getting 3 or 4 of the Stones and then part2 would be preventing him from getting the last two or failing that, preventing the Snap. When he actually got all 6 and did the deed, I was very surprised.

And another thing. People seem to be shocked by the fact that Endgame is predicted to run 3 hours. Personally, I would feel cheated and bit shocked if it DIDNT run 3 hours. We're not talking about some generic supervillan who plans to take over the world, this guy enacted his plan and took out untold billions (when you consider all the other planets), and now it has to be undone. Not to mention wrapping up this phase of the MCU and clearing the decks for the lesser lights to step forward.

[Soepvork]

Spoiler: Far From Home.

Show

Well I guess Thanos is defeated and Spider-Man and Nick Fury are brought back to life. Way to spoil your own film Marvel! There are a lot of trailers that spoiler their own movie, but I think it's unprecedented a trailer spoilers another film.

Spoiler

Show

That said though, imagine how mind-boggling it would be if Marvel reveals after Endgame that 'Far from Home' and any other post-Endgame movies were never intended but just a marketing ploy instead, and all that was made of those movies are the trailers

[Devonix]

I as well was surprised by how IW ended. I thought for sure it was going to be Thanos getting 3 or 4 of the Stones and then part2 would be preventing him from getting the last two or failing that, preventing the Snap. When he actually got all 6 and did the deed, I was very surprised.

And another thing. People seem to be shocked by the fact that Endgame is predicted to run 3 hours. Personally, I would feel cheated and bit shocked if it DIDNT run 3 hours. We're not talking about some generic supervillan who plans to take over the world, this guy enacted his plan and took out untold billions (when you consider all the other planets), and now it has to be undone. Not to mention wrapping up this phase of the MCU and clearing the decks for the lesser lights to step forward.

It's kinda surprising that Lack of comic knowledge may actually have made the film better for people. It's kind of the reason that I always say I've got no problem with Adaptations changing things, otherwise I might as well go and read the book again.

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler

Show

That said though, imagine how mind-boggling it would be if Marvel reveals after Endgame that 'Far from Home' and any other post-Endgame movies were never intended but just a marketing ploy instead, and all that was made of those movies are the trailers

Trouble is if they actually tried that the shareholders would kill and eat the people who made the decision on live television.

Spoiler: That Said

Show

I will not be surprised at all if Nick Fury is not in Far From Home at all. Because trailers always lie, and trailers for a film with Mysterio in? Believe nothing, trust nobody.

[Lt-Murgen]

Trouble is if they actually tried that the shareholders would kill and eat the people who made the decision on live television.

No- pay per view to recoup their lost investments...

[Aotrs Commander]

Trouble is if they actually tried that the shareholders would kill and eat the people who made the decision on live television.

And, for unheard of occasion, I'd be handing them the knives and holding up some recipes...

[The Glyphstone]

And, for unheard of occasion, I'd be handing them the knives and holding up some recipes...

Why do you think knives, or cooking, would be involved?

[GloatingSwine]

No- pay per view to recoup their lost investments...

Oh no.

It's not about the money, it's about sending a message.

[Aotrs Commander]

Why do you think knives, or cooking, would be involved?

Because I was making a bit of a Red Dwarf allusion.

KRYTEN: Well sir, are you really saying you'd rather have a psychopathic mechanical killer rip off your skull and play your frontal nodes like a xylophone than have another bowl of my nourishing space nettle soup?

CAT: Buddy, I'd hand him the sticks and hold up the sheet music!