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2019-01-09, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- six feet under
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Non caerulea sum, Caerulea nomen meum est.
Extended Signature.
I'm not not a humanoid. Come not not be one too.
Answer trivial questions in the OOTS trivia thread!
she/her
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2019-01-09, 10:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Sleeper, Awake crusty eyes may open now ...
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2019-01-09, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
I'm still a little curious about what happened between the last panel where we had everyone and this one. I guess it was just a matter of Hilgya and ultimately Elan healing everyone up and the one remaining vampire running away.
Given the issues of the two people still up (Belkar and H) - it did seem like there was a chance of conflict.
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2019-01-09, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-01-09, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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- six feet under
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Non caerulea sum, Caerulea nomen meum est.
Extended Signature.
I'm not not a humanoid. Come not not be one too.
Answer trivial questions in the OOTS trivia thread!
she/her
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2019-01-09, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Oh, what's wrong Belkar? Are you feeling something? Maybe it's... character development? :)
I suppose they're heading back to the dwarves, I hope they can provide some weapon and armor for Durkon, he really needs it.
And this conversation reminded me of the Inheritance Cycle where the way to defeat he bad guy was to make him feel bad about everything he'd done :)
Probably nothing really important happened, Hilgya got plenty of spell slots to heal everyone at least partially, but I hope they managed to kill the last vampire.
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2019-01-09, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-01-09, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
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- Western Pa, USA
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2019-01-09, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Which is why this is an important tiny step in specific direction for Belkar, which is so very important because it opens up the possibility of many more steps in that direction.
Belkar was never going to end up anywheres near Good based on the empathy lessons from his cat. Given sufficient years CN, perhaps.
But it is cool to imagine that Belkar has found a way to wrap his mind around how to become Good. Sure, it would probably take 20+ years of hanging around the likes of Roy and Durkon or similar to get there. But if he had the time, you could imagine him Robin Hooding around on his own 20 years from now. If he had the time.
And this is an interesting contrast with Miko. Miko could potentially be redeemed, as a theoretical proposition. But Soon recognized certain keys pieces were simply missing in her character. They might grow in her by happenstance. But she had no path she knew how to find on her own. She was lost in a profound way.
Belkar here sees the path, and sees some value in the path, enough that he might be willing to do real work to get somewhere.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2019-01-09, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-01-09, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Roy and V. are also in relationships, as far as we know Durkon knows (Roy is still in a long distance relationship with Celia, and V. hasn't been talking about the state of their marriage to anyone but Blackwing as far as we've seen). Meaning that as far as the Order goes and if "being in a current relationship" would put them below anyone who isn't in one, Belkar would be *first* on the list. So logically Durkon is assuming "everyone in the Order is single for the purposes of this argument."
Sudden thought after watching an old "Lois and Clark" episode: Lane Davies aka Tempus is probably the best possible choice to portray an animated or live action Xykon if either of those ever becomes reality--he was born in 1950 and Tempus' personality is a close match for pre-lich Xykon IMO. Just my two cents.
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2019-01-09, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Oh, by 3.5 rules you have to prepare each spell n times, I forgot, too used to 5e :) Then she healed only a bit hp, Elan and potions did the rest?
But remember when in the first book she had as much Cure light wounds spells as Durkon when they kept healing each other?
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2019-01-09, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Well she can command fire elementals so I'm pretty sure that means she rebukes undead...? Plus she's evil and so is Loki so there's that.
Well she was traveling with a party then, and I believe would have been the only source of healing, so it makes sense for her to have extra on hand then.
As for who/what did the healing this time around... *shrug*Last edited by Obscuraphile; 2019-01-09 at 11:21 PM.
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2019-01-09, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
If Loki is CN, then yes, it's possible she spont heals, but only if she's also CN
If Loki is CE she can't spont cures, regardless of her alignment and must rebuke undead
Same goes for turning undead (and for a CN cleric, the choice of turning vs rebuking also decides the cure vs inflict)
" A neutral cleric of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good cleric or an evil cleric. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells. "
This by the way is the primary argument for both Loki and H being CN, not CE. However since Loki hates undead in this universe, he could possibly be CE with an exception to the normal turning rules. Then H can also be evil or CN (and thousands of pages argue about this, please please lets not do this again)
Absent any text in comic about a rules specific exception to Loki allowing healing even though he's evil, I personally think the most likely explanation is that both Loki and Hilgya are CN, and that yes, she can heal because we saw her turn undead.
But if you think she or Loki are CE, then default assumption is she does spontaneous inflict, not cure, since we have no evidence of a second exception for Loki on the healing rules. Lower level spells are mostly worthless in combat anyway, so evil clerics often have a fair bit of healing. Or hell, just a wand of cure light wounds or three to go with her wand of protection from law. In pretty much every D&D campaign that allowed access to purchased magic items I've played, all between-combat healing was covered with wands of CLW unless the whole party was beat up and somebody had a mass-healing ability (as Elan's spells or in Pathfinder, channeled healing)
IIRC, we've seen her both turn undead and rebuke fire elementals. The elementals are a domain ability that is not tied to alignment the way undead turning is.Last edited by Seward; 2019-01-09 at 11:25 PM.
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2019-01-09, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Wait, wait, wait a moment. just APOLOGIZED for something. The world has turned upside down.
Join the Cult of and get your ceremonial pair of daggers. Franchise opportunities still available so call now.
: It would have been a hilarious anticlimax - plus, you know, murder. Which is always a nice perk.
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2019-01-09, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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- US
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-01-09, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-01-09, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
In Dungeon Crawling fools they routinely looted kills. In all the overland adventures since then they didn't fight a lot of foes with gear, so mostly got stuff as rewards or purchased them. (when enemies had cool gear, like Belkar's new dagger, it got airtime. Note also that Belkar talks about tossing +1 rings in the trash, which implies they found a lot of kind of crappy stuff along the way that they just sold offcamera, as is typical with most DD parties)
My take is Thor pointed him toward some level-appropriate gear nearby. I agree with another poster that armor wouldn't fit - dwarves like heavy armor and only magical armor resizes at all to fit (and not in all campaigns).Last edited by Seward; 2019-01-09 at 11:28 PM.
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2019-01-09, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
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2019-01-09, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
The comic explicitly stated that Loki only views undead as icky things, so all his clerics turn undead. Alignment is not a factor.
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2019-01-09, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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2019-01-09, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
I'm confused what the purpose/gag was with the facepalm.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2019-01-09, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
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2019-01-09, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Turning/Rebuking and Cure/Cause are hard coded linked. They always work in set pairs, because you're either accessing the Positive Energy Plane or the Negative Energy Plane.
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2019-01-09, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Glasgow, Scotland
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
And part of that I bet is that she never had companions other than a horse. It speaks to this comic's running theme of teamwork and cooperation that only the people with a functional support system would have a chance to thrive.
Miko was alone, the member of order of the scribble were estranged from each other, and the gods' fighting created a literal tear in reality. But our order of the stick are the main characters because of their connection to each other (or budding connection in Belkar's case)..
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SpoilerIt's like, a secret to everybody or whatever.
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2019-01-09, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
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Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Yep, Haley was very good at that (it's often seemed to me that early Haley and Belkar acted the most like D&D PC's).
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2019-01-09, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
She turns undead. That means she turns undead.
Even if she hadn't Turned (not Rebuked) Undead in the first strip of her appearance in this book, this would be wrong. Commanding fire elementals is disconnected from whether you channel positive or negative energy; it's all about having the Fire domain.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-01-09, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
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2019-01-09, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2019-01-10, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1151 - The Discussion Thread
Wouldn't you only need four? Or five, if you're using Eastern instead of Western elements?