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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    May 2014

    Default A setting built around the gods... that needs gods

    This is both an explanation of a setting I'm building and a request for advice – I have an idea of the world I want, but unfortunately I need some crucial details figured out before I can really decide the fine details...

    Anyway, a concept I've had for a very long time (though this is merely the most recent form) is a setting built around the concept of a cold war between the gods. This war is fought via influence – the gods each represent philosophies or worldviews, and they work to insure that as many people and cultures as possible follow their particular ideals. They do this almost entirely by proxy, through their followers, or those who exemplify a particular god's philosophy (who often grants the mortal special powers). These worshippers sometimes engage in direct battle, but often the conflict is more less direct (as struggles between ideologies sometimes are), as both sides try and demonstrate their superiority by any means possible.

    The other premise this setting is built on is that the world is cyclical – this cold war will eventually come to a head during the Eschaton, in which the deities and their forces battle until only one remains. This battle will destroy the world, but the surviving god will create a new one in their own image, whose people will inherit the god's ideals and beliefs. In time, a new set of gods will arise, and the battle of wills between gods begins again.

    It's important, at this point, to describe what the gods are. They can actually be described as sapient demiplanes – for each “deity” is in fact its own realm of existence, each of which is governed by a particular way of life and worldview. In essence, each “deity” is the ideal world of a particular philosophy, a sapient utopia for its followers. Within itself, the deity is essentially omnipotent (which means followers of other gods would do well to enter only with permission and with respect), although on the “prime” plane it can only direct its followers, grant powers to individuals it favors, send magical beasts of its own creation, or generate avatars of itself which, while powerful, are not unbeatable, even by mortals. After the Eschaton, the victorious god becomes the new world – although in the process, it loses its consciousness.

    For these reasons, most facets of this world will be determined or affected by the fact that the world is structured around a contest between gods, with the creation of a new world as a prize. They won't have their fingers in every pie, and events will occur that are beyond their influence, but they'll definitely be working to try and spread their influence (whatever that involves), as well as trying to recruit any heroes who arise.

    ...You'll notice I've been a bit vague on specifics, and that's because of a big problem – I'm having trouble thinking of gods. The gods (or at least those required for the Eschaton) have to be very well thought-out – one ought to be able to make a whole thread about each of them in the vein of LudicSavant or White Blade, because each of them needs to represent something people can believe in, something with the depth and complexity of a religion unto itself... at least to some extent. Thus, I'd like some input on just what concepts deserve to have a deity in this setting.

    I do have some guidelines:
    -As might be surprised, each deity represents a philosophy, an outlook on life, a way of thinking, because their power in the world is determined by how many people think, feel, and believe the way the deity wants them to. These philosophies need not be extremely complex, they likely revolve around a particular portfolio which may be symbolic of their core beliefs.
    -Related to the above, each god is a god of multiple things. The goddess of the night, Silrain (one of the few I've actually come up with) is not just a goddess of night and darkness, but also of beauty, at least of aesthetic beauty – the kind of beauty that, like the night sky, evokes emotions in people. Related to that she is also a god of art and creativity. These things all tie into each other, of course, but the point is that these gods are multifaceted.
    -Each deity shares part of its portfolio with at least one other deity, and not necessarily the same parts - - thus each god competes with another. Going off the above example, Silrain has a competitor in the form of Vekkersang, who is also a deity of the night – but he represents the night in the form of the darkness that conceals monsters, assassins, and other horrors.
    -As a caveat to the above, of course, not all deities compete with each other. Sometimes there is a pair of gods who don't really have points of contention between them – and it's entirely possible that a given mortal may follow both of them (something similar is possible in real life – for instance, many in East Asia mix Buddhism with various traditional beliefs). Perhaps its even possible that two or more gods could have a shared victory during the Eschaton...

    So there's my issue – I've set my standards for deities so high that I'm not sure where to begin. I can provide a couple examples later, but for now, I wanted to get this thread up. I hope it's readable...
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Honestly, most players would get super excited about Zenob the god of crabs because it's eccentric. I know I would.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    But a friendly reminder that, by RAW, this game is unplayable

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: A setting built around the gods... that needs gods

    Man, what was the world before this one like that you got a D&D-esque world out of it? Some boring palatial paradise where nothing ever changed?

    My first instinct, which cannot be further expanded upon in the forum thanks to the rules, is that there ought to be an extraordinarily rich reserve of utopian and similar thinking in political philosophy from the past three centuries. Even a basic tick through the French Revolution would land you a half-dozen viable candidates.

    So, as a second option, here's what you really want to do for this particular setting if the idea of researching historical political movements doesn't fill you with delight.

    1) Ask, simply, "What is the main thing wrong with the world?" and write down the various plausible answers. There are at least a dozen plausible ones.
    2) Once you have the above answer, "How are we going to fix that?"
    3) It's possible the above two questions will deliver you a fully functioning god, but probably it will just give you a clear shape of the philosophy. Then just ask yourself, "What associations make sense between this solution to the world's problems?" For example, Suppose a deity says the main problem is all these monsters running around and the solution is that we should tame the wilderness of the world. You could decide to write either a monster-hunter god, who exemplifies individual excellence and the triumph of man over nature in one to one combat - But you could just as easily decide that the solution is the creation of cities, the formation of strong human communities, and paving over these cursed ancient forests.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Tentreto's Avatar

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    Default Re: A setting built around the gods... that needs gods

    I think above is good advice, especially around how the gods personally view the worlds. Philosophy is also a good looking point, though that carries its own bags of worms.

    On setting I saw had a similar set up for this, where, although not gods, a group of powerful beings bet on what was the driving force for mortals, exemplified by a singular quality. For example, progress, preservation, conquest and glory were all there.

    As for where to begin, I'd suggest deciding a rough number of gods you want around as major players, and giving each one the virtue or similar they value most, or possibly one they don't value at all as well.

    I'd guess as a rule of thumb, craft a basic motto or idea for a god, and think if you, or a few people would support it, or if not, what circumstances would lead to a person to worship. Therefore, a god of fear would have a very different approach to gaining followers than a god of war, yet both have plausible ways of doing so.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: A setting built around the gods... that needs gods

    Quote Originally Posted by White Blade View Post
    Man, what was the world before this one like that you got a D&D-esque world out of it? Some boring palatial paradise where nothing ever changed?
    I'm not sure what you mean, but... I have an idea for what the victorious god of the previous Eschaton was. At least in part, he was a deity of heroism, in particular of the power of individuals to defy fate and enforce their own will on the world (this concept - and a hero who decided to defy prophecy itself - had a large role in the previous Eschaton). The main result of that, as relates to how this world is different from other worlds in the same setting, is... well, let me put it this way - ever find it odd how a 20th-level Fighter in D&D can take so much more damage than a 1st-level Fighter, while at the same time doing things that border on the impossible for a human? In this setting, that is an actual function of the current world, where heroes of sufficient experience, skill, valor, and/or force of will actually become physically and mentally more powerful, to the point where they are no longer normal human beings. Pretty much the basic premise of this world is "willpower is the strongest force in the world" and reality itself conforms to that ideal.

    This implies, of course, that the previous world lacked that concept, where humans could only become so powerful. In D&D terms, it's a setting meant for E6 campaigns. But I don't want to think about what god was responsible for that, or before you know it it's turtles all the way down...

    Either way, though, what kind of deity won the Eschaton and created the new world only makes so much difference. I'm working with the idea that, at least for a time, the new world is a utopia of the god's ideals (although with some philosophies, the mortals living in the world may consider it a dystopia), but this eventually degenerates into what's essentially a mundane Material Plane, albeit one influenced in subtle ways by whatever philosophy won in the previous world. After all, many real-world mythologies believed in a bygone "golden age" often with more magic in the world than in the "current" era. It would be fitting to reflect that in this setting.

    ...One more thing, "D&D-esque world" is something that would probably apply to most cycles of the world in this setting, although that's partly because D&D can fit a lot of different settings. That being said, I won't be using D&D to run this setting - too many difference in the way magic works alone. Although that does make me wonder if the way magic works is kept across each incarnation of the world...

    My first instinct, which cannot be further expanded upon in the forum thanks to the rules, is that there ought to be an extraordinarily rich reserve of utopian and similar thinking in political philosophy from the past three centuries. Even a basic tick through the French Revolution would land you a half-dozen viable candidates.

    So, as a second option, here's what you really want to do for this particular setting if the idea of researching historical political movements doesn't fill you with delight.

    1) Ask, simply, "What is the main thing wrong with the world?" and write down the various plausible answers. There are at least a dozen plausible ones.
    2) Once you have the above answer, "How are we going to fix that?"
    3) It's possible the above two questions will deliver you a fully functioning god, but probably it will just give you a clear shape of the philosophy. Then just ask yourself, "What associations make sense between this solution to the world's problems?" For example, Suppose a deity says the main problem is all these monsters running around and the solution is that we should tame the wilderness of the world. You could decide to write either a monster-hunter god, who exemplifies individual excellence and the triumph of man over nature in one to one combat - But you could just as easily decide that the solution is the creation of cities, the formation of strong human communities, and paving over these cursed ancient forests.
    The first option sounds... tedious, but will likely yield some good results (although it's worth noting that the philosopohies don't need to be utopian - there are a few gods who embody worldviews that people don't enjoy having, but can't see the world any other way...).

    The second method, with tweaking, may work as well - it need not be a matter of "What's wrong with the world?" It may be a matter of, "What's the best way to go through life?" Either way, of course, all deities have a certain view of how people and the world should be, so that may be a good place to start.

    I should probably flesh out a couple of examples, it's hard to describe exactly what I've got planned for deities. (especially since I don't completely know myself and are open to suggestions) I do know there'll probably be some flexibility - just like how some real-world gods have different titles or forms of worship, some gods in this setting may have different parts of their portfolio emphasized by different cultures. Sometimes, even their avatars might take on different personalities or roles. I suspect they are both less strict and more broad than some typical philosophies... and of course, a lot of times their tenets are couched in symbolism (as is the case with my goddess of the night and beauty).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tentreto View Post
    As for where to begin, I'd suggest deciding a rough number of gods you want around as major players, and giving each one the virtue or similar they value most, or possibly one they don't value at all as well.

    I'd guess as a rule of thumb, craft a basic motto or idea for a god, and think if you, or a few people would support it, or if not, what circumstances would lead to a person to worship. Therefore, a god of fear would have a very different approach to gaining followers than a god of war, yet both have plausible ways of doing so.
    Hmm... perhaps it would be useful to start off with, say, 10 examples, then step back, take a look, and ask, "Is anything missing? That way I don't overwhelm myself with trying to fill out a quota while also fleshing everything out. It may be helpful to start off simple as well... then refine things if, for example a particular concept (such as war) has multiple approaches and multiple outlooks (war through courage and strength a la Ares, or war through strategy a la Athena) that warrant their own deities...
    Last edited by Dusk Raven; 2020-01-04 at 02:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato_Priest View Post
    Honestly, most players would get super excited about Zenob the god of crabs because it's eccentric. I know I would.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
    But a friendly reminder that, by RAW, this game is unplayable

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: A setting built around the gods... that needs gods

    The way you have this set up, it makes the most sense for each god to establish a monotheistic religion and expand and conflict in the way that monotheistic religions expand and conflict. Their going to compete by offering better methods of setting up society that provide the greatest amount of fulfillment, social control, and ability to progress for the members. After all this isn't simply a matter of varying religions making metaphorical promises as to what the best path in life is, this is a series of gods making quite literal promises about what the best possible life will be.

    The result is probably going to be a competition between the various fairly nice pathways, since the 'evil' gods will quickly get pushed aside by virtue of not having anywhere near the number of followers necessary to progress. The multiverse might have a few people who, deep down in their heart of hearts truly do believe that Baator is paradise, but it has a lot more who'd rather go to Elysium. In fact, in D&D terms you're likely to get a conflict between one god representing each one of the Upper Planes and it's corresponding alignment. Heck you could even call them that.

    Hypothetical Pantheon:
    Arcadian: Communitarian God of Lawful Neutral Good.
    Celestia: Righteous Goddess of Lawful Good.
    Bytopias: Pastoralist Hermaphroditic Divine Entity (two-faced Janus-style) of Neutral Lawful Good.
    Elysia: Caregiving Goddess of Neutral Good.
    Beastmaster: Vibrant God of Neutral Chaotic Good.
    Arcadia: Free-spirited Goddess of Chaotic Good.
    Ysgardous: Fervent God of Chaotic Neutral Good.

    (hmm...the idea of making a D&D world were all the deities just are the Outer Planes is surprisingly appealing)
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A setting built around the gods... that needs gods

    Maybe you could take inspiration from Belgriad. (Of David Eddings)

    It would help us, if you shown us what gods do you already have.
    Half work could be done, if we know what existing idealogies are supposed to be opposed.
    For example a sun god to oppose the night goddess.

    Do you want to base the religions over specific races and kingdoms? Or it something else?
    Take in count that geohraphy and culture played key elements in what people are choosing to believe.

    Also, to ensure conflict, I think there should be a trickster god, which his/her/whatever's porpuse is to ensure the conflict goes on.
    Loki, the north native american coyote. He doesn't even have to be smart. Just someone, who keep messing everything up.

    Another classical mythological conflict is parent Vs Son
    And even a pair could lead to constant conflicts-
    Zeus and Hera, which represent sort of ying and yang at the greek mythology.
    Zeus is dominant, activly seeking new excitments, he is more free then anyone else- he is the sky. Open, but also luring over everyone. His mood changing as the weather.

    Hera is the goddess of earth and marriage/family. She represent stability and the feminine demand for loyalty. Her principles are clear, and she also a motherly figure.

    I am not sure what *exactly* are you looking for, but I am tossing at you few concepts, in hope something will hit.

    Also, do you want each get to be a loner?

    For example in nordic myth, beside the induvdiual conflicts you have there, god clans.

    The main clan are more militant, drinking and stuff. The other clan, which supposed to be the elven's pantheon cry a lot and love pretty stuff.
    And you have the giants as well.
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