Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

[Willie the Duck]

Is it bad that I knew the two you had to specify the sitcom, and don't know 2 of the other 3?

I could make a joke about your attention to detail (), but seriously, it's 'bad' only in that we are discussing sitcoms (I would call QC unquestionably one of those), so familiarity with all other sitcoms is beneficial.

Will & Grace, is that the one with the gay couple?

I imagine each of the gay characters may well have coupled up either at some point or as of now, but the original premise was single straight female and her single gay male roommate (who was the comedy's straight man, get it?), and their two best freinds, a single gay man, and a married (crazy rich) straight woman.

[Kish]

jeph seems to really really like melon.

From where I'm sitting, he seems to really like all his characters, which is good. (I could name another webcomic I stopped reading because I realized the author viewed all his characters with a strange, smug contempt.)

Some appeal more to me than others. I tend to groan when--Brun, is that her name? the comically stupid woman who pulled a harpoon on Clinton--is in the spotlight.

[Traab]

From where I'm sitting, he seems to really like all his characters, which is good. (I could name another webcomic I stopped reading because I realized the author viewed all his characters with a strange, smug contempt.)

Some appeal more to me than others. I tend to groan when--Brun, is that her name? the comically stupid woman who pulled a harpoon on Clinton--is in the spotlight.

Im sure he does, I was more talking about his Melon forever! author comment. He seems to really enjoy writing her for some reason. And Cik, Family Matters is a sitcom where the fat black cop from die hard is a family man in chicago (Still a cop, different character aside from fan theories) with his loving family. He has a next door neighbor of a super smart nerd named steve urkel who causes all sorts of problem, generally by accident. Here is a clip compilation

[Mechalich]

Im sure he does, I was more talking about his Melon forever! author comment. He seems to really enjoy writing her for some reason.

Melon is largely a filler character. Most strips involving her are very basic visual gags that do not connect to ongoing storylines. They are presumably quick and easy to write and produce. Jeph very clearly uses Melon to give him time to work on other ideas, in a way he used to use the Angry Bird, guest comics, and other random interludes (all of which have declined greatly in frequency). I find that regarding the general appearance of Melon as a sign that 'the actual storyline will return shortly' makes her much more palatable.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Oh hey, just who we're always happy to see...

[AvatarVecna]

Oh hey, just who we're always happy to see...

See I came here to say "oh hey, it's the worst 'character' in the series". Glad to see we're on the same page.

[The Glyphstone]

And Roko's not even surprised anymore, just exasperated.

[John Campbell]

And Cik, Family Matters is a sitcom where the fat black cop from die hard

Also from Ghostbusters and Turner & Hooch, among others. Reginald VelJohnson has been just a little bit typecast.

[Eldan]

See I came here to say "oh hey, it's the worst 'character' in the series". Glad to see we're on the same page.

Personally, I came to post "Bleeeeeeerrch" or something similar, with no comment, but that works too.

"Hi Miss Basilisk, it's me, robot god."

[Wraith]

Roko doesn't have a job, or any kind of influence or expertise that would be particularly useful to ask for.

Likewise she's incredibly distrustful of Squid-Bot, so naively doing a task for it as Emily did probably isn't on the table.

So... Is this a social call? Squid-Bot has a bunch of bodies running around, is it about to solve Roko's feelings of unease with a pep-talk and some advice about breaking in a new avatar?

As cringe-worthy as a comparison between a new AI body and a transgender/disabled person could be if mishandled, I think I would prefer Jeph to make the attempt rather than to have Squid-Bot wander in for a few days, fix everything with technobabble and then disappear again.

Or maybe it just wants to talk about leggings again. That'd be okay.

[Traab]

Also from Ghostbusters and Turner & Hooch, among others. Reginald VelJohnson has been just a little bit typecast.

Very true, I just mentioned die hard as it was one of his more famous roles, iirc he was basically a cameo in ghostbusters. I honestly forgot about turner and hooch. And family matters is actually a spinoff from his appearances in Perfect Strangers.

[Max_Killjoy]

Roko doesn't have a job, or any kind of influence or expertise that would be particularly useful to ask for.

Likewise she's incredibly distrustful of Squid-Bot, so naively doing a task for it as Emily did probably isn't on the table.

So... Is this a social call? Squid-Bot has a bunch of bodies running around, is it about to solve Roko's feelings of unease with a pep-talk and some advice about breaking in a new avatar?

As cringe-worthy as a comparison between a new AI body and a transgender/disabled person could be if mishandled, I think I would prefer Jeph to make the attempt rather than to have Squid-Bot wander in for a few days, fix everything with technobabble and then disappear again.

Or maybe it just wants to talk about leggings again. That'd be okay.

The literal deus ex machina... again.

[Kato]

I'm also... I don't know what they are planning on doing but nothing I can think of is good or makes sense. I'm hoping Jeph has better ideas than me.

[Traab]

Considering spookybot inhabits multiple bodies all the time he/she/it likely has some serious experience dealing with the ai version of body dysphoria. It might actually be helpful to talk to someone with experience in the area you are having trouble with. Or we could just hate on spookybot, it all works.

[Cikomyr]

Roko doesn't have a job, or any kind of influence or expertise that would be particularly useful to ask for.

Likewise she's incredibly distrustful of Squid-Bot, so naively doing a task for it as Emily did probably isn't on the table.

So... Is this a social call? Squid-Bot has a bunch of bodies running around, is it about to solve Roko's feelings of unease with a pep-talk and some advice about breaking in a new avatar?

As cringe-worthy as a comparison between a new AI body and a transgender/disabled person could be if mishandled, I think I would prefer Jeph to make the attempt rather than to have Squid-Bot wander in for a few days, fix everything with technobabble and then disappear again.

Or maybe it just wants to talk about leggings again. That'd be okay.

I think it's obvious Robotsatan cares for Roko in some way. We know very little of Robotsatan's motives and desires, but we know that free will and its expression is a very important part of whatever It may call a value system.

Roko leaving the police force as an act of that free will and not letting society's norms held her back obviously intrigued/endeared Roko to It, and It probably has a minor vested interest in checking on Roko that this kernel of expressive free will hasn't been smothered by Roko's tragedy.

If anything, Roko's continued expressed distaste of Robotsatan may be a way that It found to provokes Roko into being more assertive with her sentiments and desires VS. tolerating environmental bull****.

For the record, I like Robotsatan. It's just yet another wacky character with agenda and personality that is a margin character. Plot is not the point of QC; character interaction is. And I just loved Robotsatan's sassy comeback to Fayes and her desire to soften the blow to Bubble's loss of memories.

[Wraith]

Or we could just hate on spookybot, it all works.

Don't get me wrong, if Squid-Bot is here to offer Roko a unique perspective, along with possible friendship as a way of helping her cope with the situation then I'm entirely behind that as a character arc/development for both of them.

It hasn't been shown to be so patient and/or benevolent so far though, and I'm just hoping that we don't get a repeat of its previous, unbelievably convenient behaviour.

For the record, I like Robotsatan. It's just yet another wacky character with agenda and personality that is a margin character. Plot is not the point of QC; character interaction is. And I just loved Robotsatan's sassy comeback to Fayes and her desire to soften the blow to Bubble's loss of memories.

I agree; I too liked Squid-Bot when she was insulting Faye with abandon - It wasn't just putting her down when she deserved it, but it was genuinely being quite funny with it.
I suppose it's the second part which is causing people frustration - QC is about characters and their interaction, but all Squid-Bot has done so far is invite themselves in, insult everyone, solve a bunch of problems without repercussion, drop casual threats and then leave again so there is precious little interaction to go on. Hopefully this new arc is about to change that so that we have something more identifiable as a character and not a plot-device.

[Traab]

Clearly there is going to be an invite to join the spooky gestalt.

[jwhouk]

Clearly there is going to be an invite to join the spooky gestalt.

God, I hope not.

[Traab]

"You want to do real good? Then join me/us! I will show you the best way to help people both long term and short!" From then on spookybot has an odd bostonian accent when working on something important. Roko is never seen nor heard from again. Only the echoing wail of melon singing twinkle twinkle in the distance to remember her by.

[Agi Hammerthief]

or maybe they just happen to know a bot running around with her old model who isn’t as integrated, happy for a swap.
Or just got send to robot jail, so there is a vacancy.

I generally like spooky bot btw.

[Cikomyr]

Hopefully this new arc is about to change that so that we have something more identifiable as a character and not a plot-device.

That's a funny plot device to you sir

[Cikomyr]

or maybe they just happen to know a bot running around with her old model who isn’t as integrated, happy for a swap.
Or just got send to robot jail, so there is a vacancy.

I generally like spooky bot btw.

You know...

If they do that plotline, I think she may help do just that. But it won't be the panacea Roko expects either. Because ultimately, whether or not it's the same model, it won't be her body.

Spookybot may help Roko realise that this is not a problem that can be materially solved.

[Vinyadan]

About Squidbot, I was rereading Gunnerkrigg Court's chapter in which Jeanne is freed, and it struck me how close the general framework was to the plotin which Bubbles is freed: in both cases, we have a warrior woman trapped in servitude through technological means, that can only be freed by reaching though an alternate dimension and opening a lock.
The difference is how in GC the characters had to plan and work on it for years, could only do it through great personal danger, with very little personal gain (Kat gets the arrow), and the consequences were unexpected and massive. QC characters instead have no way to act on this, and the resolution comes from an OP, unheard of robodemon, who, incredibly conveniently, also neatly fixes all loose ends immediately after the problem has been brought up, the only minus being the unsavory implications of such a powerful being running around unknown and doing what she pleases.

What really surprised me, back then, was really how fast the whole plot was dealt with in QC.

[Max_Killjoy]

About Squidbot, I was rereading Gunnerkrigg Court's chapter in which Jeanne is freed, and it struck me how close the general framework was to the plotin which Bubbles is freed: in both cases, we have a warrior woman trapped in servitude through technological means, that can only be freed by reaching though an alternate dimension and opening a lock.
The difference is how in GC the characters had to plan and work on it for years, could only do it through great personal danger, with very little personal gain (Kat gets the arrow), and the consequences were unexpected and massive. QC characters instead have no way to act on this, and the resolution comes from an OP, unheard of robodemon, who, incredibly conveniently, also neatly fixes all loose ends immediately after the problem has been brought up, the only minus being the unsavory implications of such a powerful being running around unknown and doing what she pleases.

What really surprised me, back then, was really how fast the whole plot was dealt with in QC.

I'd still like to know if Spookybot was deliberate and intended from the start, or if Jeph wrote himself into a corner, or got bored with the story arc, but yeah, that ended SUDDENLY after a fair amount of buildup.

[Cikomyr]

I'd still like to know if Spookybot was deliberate and intended from the start, or if Jeph wrote himself into a corner, or got bored with the story arc, but yeah, that ended SUDDENLY after a fair amount of buildup.

And we got a damn sweet moment between Fayes and Bubble out of it

[AvatarVecna]

About Squidbot, I was rereading Gunnerkrigg Court's chapter in which Jeanne is freed, and it struck me how close the general framework was to the plotin which Bubbles is freed: in both cases, we have a warrior woman trapped in servitude through technological means, that can only be freed by reaching though an alternate dimension and opening a lock.
The difference is how in GC the characters had to plan and work on it for years, could only do it through great personal danger, with very little personal gain (Kat gets the arrow), and the consequences were unexpected and massive. QC characters instead have no way to act on this, and the resolution comes from an OP, unheard of robodemon, who, incredibly conveniently, also neatly fixes all loose ends immediately after the problem has been brought up, the only minus being the unsavory implications of such a powerful being running around unknown and doing what she pleases.

What really surprised me, back then, was really how fast the whole plot was dealt with in QC.

I'd still like to know if Spookybot was deliberate and intended from the start, or if Jeph wrote himself into a corner, or got bored with the story arc, but yeah, that ended SUDDENLY after a fair amount of buildup.

I think she was intended from the start, because of what was going on the comic just two strips before she showed up, which is the main thing that really ****ing bothers me about this character: right before Spookybot shows up, the gang is contacting the people they know to see what can be done about it, and they've just pulled out their trump card: they called Hannalore, who called Station who at this point in the series was the most powerful AI we knew about for sure. The kind of problems that stump Station canonically include making progress on finding out what butterfly wing-flapping was responsible for causing a hurricane. Station is an actual station populated by some of the smartest and most technologically capable people on the face of the planet.

So Station tells them "sorry, this is kinda beyond me to just perfectly fix; maybe I can fix it, but maybe I screw up and this unleashes something awful", and at that point I was actually happy with the conclusion in a "this is a tragic story arc" kinda way: the heroes learn that some action taken in the past had unknown consequences at the time, and now they need to decide if they're going to live with the consequences of destroy's the box's contents, or living at the pleasure of the person who holds the box's key. There is no truly happy ending, just a choice of which ****ty alternative they prefer.

And then, the second it's established that the only existing character that might be able to solve this problem can't and won't due to the risk...this smug ****er shows up two comics later like the ****in devil just lurkin' around with a contract awaiting your signature, knocking Station to #2 and destroying all the dramatic weight this story arc had. They have a perfect solution to this seemingly-unsolvable problem, and tie up all the loose ends as a consolation prize when it turns out the memories were all gone anyway. Everything Bubbles did under CW's thumb was done under duress of a threat that bore no true weight and was nothing but a bluff from the start.

Most of QC is pretty re-readable, even knowing the twists and turns the story is gonna take. But reading through that arc again, even if I can ignore the bitter taste it left in my mouth, knowing what's coming means there's no reason to care about what's going on. It was all for nothing, it never really mattered, they only believed it mattered. The only way a character introduction could flip the table of dramatic weight even more than this one did would be if Faye's dad showed up.

[Mith]

@Venca That summarises my reaction to the arc more eloquently than I could. My reaction to the character was more just "what?" over and over again as the arc deteriorated.

What I could have found acceptable for such a character is for them to seize the memories with the story being "Now you are dealing with the devil you don't know." And the multiple bodies makes them too difficult to deal with. Sort of "The actual AI underground is 1 entity that literally absorbs the opposition." They behave somewhat morally most of the time because they find that they get bored, and are intelligent enough to know that once they break the world, it will stop being fun to play with.


And their calling card is Gary...

[geoduck]

All that, plus turning Corpse Witch from "smug jerk whose arguments actually make sense" to "evil cackling supervillainess".

[Traab]

I mean, it wasnt exactly a perfect solution it was more "Yeah sorry, there isnt anything that can be done, dont worry, I will make CW suffer for this." Now had she gotten her memories back safe and sound and discovered some sort of heartwarming final message from them or whatever, THEN it would have been way too neat and perfect of an ending, but as it turns out, not even the AI devil/god could fix this. At best just break the news then smite the heathen who did this.

[Beelzebub1111]

I mean, it wasnt exactly a perfect solution it was more "Yeah sorry, there isnt anything that can be done, dont worry, I will make CW suffer for this." Now had she gotten her memories back safe and sound and discovered some sort of heartwarming final message from them or whatever, THEN it would have been way too neat and perfect of an ending, but as it turns out, not even the AI devil/god could fix this. At best just break the news then smite the heathen who did this.

I'm not a fan of extrajudicial...justice. We live in a society, dammit. If you tear down your laws to get at the devil, then what is left?