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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    John Cribati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    That's a nice way to think. Wish I was capable of it.

    Formerly known as "Herpestidae."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Things don't magically stop being fun when you reach a certain age.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    I'm not a fan of extrajudicial...justice. We live in a society, dammit. If you tear down your laws to get at the devil, then what is left?
    Given your nickname, you probably shouldn't stow thrones.

    Laws are mortal and temporary at best; some can be very bad, the holocaust was legal for extreme instance.

    The world tends to go in cycles, the last time Britain was this relaxed was the period of the Regency Bucks, then Beau Brummel said "Who's your fat friend" and in came Victorian values.

    It can swing to Fascism (or something very like it) in seconds. It has been building, and the gun owners are anxious that they will be banned and they don't want that (in Britain they're out of luck since Dunblaine, but there are knives).
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Let's please not stray into real world politics, we've barely broken in the new thread and it's far too early to invoke Godwin's Law, let alone opinions on the USA's 2nd Amendment.

    In regards to the comic, I wonder if Roko will pick up on the use of "we"? Even if she never imagines that Squid-Bot is bilocating, she might at least assume that its part of a consortium, thus implying accomplices.

    [EDIT] On a vaguely related point that reachs back to a few arcs ago; we've all been considering that Roko's new body might become a prelude to a transgender comparison, but I've also remembered that Clinton is both obsessed with AI mentality AND has a prosthetic hand. This could be a perfect opportunity to restart the Clinton/Roko ship.
    She starts work at the bakery, he drops in to visit Brun then stops to speak to the new hire who admits that she's having problems, which he can sympathize with over his amputation and adaptation... Seems perfectly logical, to me
    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-01-21 at 03:13 PM.
    You don't know what it was like.
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    You never fought in the Console Wars.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Beelzebub1111's Avatar

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Laws are meant to be fair. And apply to everyone equally. If we make it so could just punish anyone without evidence or a fair trial, just because enough people believe they are bad, how long until enough people decide that you are bad?

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Laws are meant to be fair. And apply to everyone equally. If we make it so could just punish anyone without evidence or a fair trial, just because enough people believe they are bad, how long until enough people decide that you are bad?
    Indeed. As a general approach to putting any rule or law into place, first imagine that rule or law being applied to you or someone you care about in the most twisted way you can imagine it being twisted.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    John Cribati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Laws are meant to be fair. And apply to everyone equally.
    Bolded for emphasis. Because what is meant to be is not often what is. And based on "what is" right now, I question how much they were "meant to be" in the first place.
    Last edited by John Cribati; 2019-01-21 at 09:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Things don't magically stop being fun when you reach a certain age.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    New Comic.

    And THAT'S interesting. Without getting into spoilers, Roko asked Spookybot a question, and they're dodging.

    I'd say she's touched a nerve...

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I appreciate that Roko doesn't seem to feel the mix of awe and dread that Spookysquidbot seems to inspire in others.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  9. - Top - End - #99
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I appreciate that Roko doesn't seem to feel the mix of awe and dread that Spookysquidbot seems to inspire in others.
    What exactly is our sample size for that? Bubbles, Faye, Roko, Corpse Witch...has anyone else interacted with Spookybot face-to-face?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    What exactly is our sample size for that? Bubbles, Faye, Roko, Corpse Witch...has anyone else interacted with Spookybot face-to-face?
    We saw a few others when they wrapped up lose ends. Those people probably thought they were a regular AI though.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I mean, spooky might be powerful but Roko has put up with enough **** to not be intimidated by them.
    Also, I don't think they are dodging the question exactly, they're just playing coy.

    Also also, please emergency break this arc if you're going for a trans metaphor, Jeph....
    "What's done is done."

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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Yeah, I feel like going with a trans metaphor when the character in question literally just bought a new body is...

    ...insensitive?
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Beelzebub1111's Avatar

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Oh he's totally going there. Let's take this bullet train straight to hell.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I'd like to think that with an actual trans character in the comic, Jeph wouldn't feel the need to jump through so many hoops to touch the subject.

    But part of me knows better.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    Yeah, I feel like going with a trans metaphor when the character in question literally just bought a new body is...

    ...insensitive?
    I... don't know. I mean, this is where using sci fi as a metaphor starts to get tricky. I mean, just buying a new body isn't something we have the option to do. Nor is Roko's situation of 'I have a new body, and it is the right model, but...' really translatable to transgenderism. Or at least... not in a way we could all agree on the linkages. I think (maybe).

    Honestly, if Jeph were to suddenly tell us that this story is really about his IRL friend _____ who got an organ transplant, and is dealing with the emotional fallout from that, this would all start working better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I'd like to think that with an actual trans character in the comic, Jeph wouldn't feel the need to jump through so many hoops to touch the subject.

    But part of me knows better.
    I think the issue with Claire is that he normalized it past the point he later wanted to talk about it.

    I applaud the fact that Jeph made a trans character and then let it simply be--an accepted part of the universe, now onto the wacky hijinks (and then do the even more amazing thing of making said trans character not only not spend much time dwelling on the issue, but also be fallible in a totally unrelated way).

    Only now, Jeph really wants to talk about it (if things are headed in the way we expect). Will he undermine all the development he gave Claire, and hijack her other plot arcs (y'know, more than having her get high and summon magic pointy-dogs for no reason)? Nope, instead he'll put it onto this other character, who he clearly likes writing and drawing, but has served her overall purpose twice now (both in being a cop, and then in leaving the force).

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Or maybe this is to further develop the ai part of his universe. As of right now we have only seen ais who have no issue with jumping in between bodies at will, happy with upgrades, or entirely different forms, such as may and her desire to be a fighter jet yet clearly not having an issue (aside from its cheapness) with her humanoid chassis. So seeing that some ais are more attached to their chassis is a way to explore their differences. While yes there are some trans parallels its no more the same thing than xmen being a symbol of racism and civil rights movements. Yes you can draw some connections but there are more than enough differences to point out that its not the same thing at all.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Of course this presents sn interesting conundrum. If you could cure dysphoria by changing your brain rather than your body, 1)would you? And 2)would it be acceptable for those that do?
    Last edited by Beelzebub1111; 2019-01-22 at 10:08 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I'm pretty sure I saw someone mention this already, but I think the best scenario here is if, instead of talking with Claire about body dysmorphia, Roko talks to Clinton about prosthetics.


    Spoiler: I've checked out the spoiler thoroughly and there's no actual erotic Harry Potter fanfiction
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    I've checked out the comic thoroughly and there's no actual erotic Harry Potter fanfiction
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    I can't find the one with the "cartoon butt," though.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    OK, finally tracked the Naked Superheroes guy down
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    What do you see as being objectionable about it? The use of the word "bimbos"?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    There are no nipples or genitals
    Looks like a nipple when I look close.
    Then don't look close.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Of course this presents sn interesting conundrum. If you could cure dysphoria by changing your brain rather than your body, 1)would you? And 2)would it be acceptable for those that do?
    That seems like maybe where today's strip is going. Roko wants Spookybot to 'fix' her if she can't get over her dysphoria, but Spookybot doesn't want to. Perhaps because they don't consider editing out her issues to be 'fixing' them.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Of course this presents sn interesting conundrum. If you could cure dysphoria by changing your brain rather than your body, 1)would you? And 2)would it be acceptable for those that do?
    What if both options were equally valid? If you could just casually switch to the body type you feel you are OR easily change your mind so you no longer feel uncomfortable in your current one. Which would be considered the right option? Would both be equally acceptable? Something tells me the mental switch would be the less ethical option as it feels somehow worse to alter your mind than your body. Your mind is who you are, you know?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I... don't know. I mean, this is where using sci-fi as a metaphor starts to get tricky. I mean, just buying a new body isn't something we have the option to do. Nor is Roko's situation of 'I have a new body, and it is the right model, but...' really translatable to transgenderism. Or at least... not in a way we could all agree on the linkages. I think (maybe).
    I think that one of the issues that makes this a grey area is that what your describing has been discussed in the comic, literally with the same implications being denounced.

    Marten, Claire and Pintsize were sat on the couch; one of them brought up artificial organs and remarked how one day everyone would be able to just plug in whatever they wanted, male female or otherwise, because (in Hanner's words) that technology was already being developed in-universe. Relatively soon, people WILL have the option to buy the body they want.
    Claire then gave a very sincere monologue about how that was all well and good, but idolising it right now trivialises the plight of those who have had to transition the "hard" way, as well as playing down the stigma and controversy that they have had to overcome.

    So in a way, Jeph has addressed the "robots as transgender people" comparison - it's rude, if not downright offensive, because if it were even remotely that simple then all the tragedy that has been enacted around transgender rights has been for naught.

    I thought that sounded reasonable and it was addressed in a sincere, concise manner. Hopefully Jeph is going to keep with that conclusion, rather than dissecting it until he loses the point.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    What if both options were equally valid? If you could just casually switch to the body type you feel you are OR easily change your mind so you no longer feel uncomfortable in your current one. Which would be considered the right option? Would both be equally acceptable? Something tells me the mental switch would be the less ethical option as it feels somehow worse to alter your mind than your body. Your mind is who you are, you know?
    But who is you? If the goal is to feel like your body is correct and your brain is getting it wrong, why is one less ethical than the other?

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Whether or not there's going to be a thoroughly unwise trans analogy discussion in the comic, it appears there's going to be one in this thread.
    Spoiler
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Why did spooky bot turn up?

    They didn't make an appointment when they turned up earlier, but Basilisk expected them right to the second, how did she do that?
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Why did spooky bot turn up?

    They didn't make an appointment when they turned up earlier, but Basilisk expected them right to the second, how did she do that?
    Roko simply guessed when would be the most annoying possible time for Spookybot to show up, and was right. It's a common comedy device to set up a character as an annoying presence.

  26. - Top - End - #116
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    At least it implies Jeph realizes SBot is annoying?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    At least it implies Jeph realizes SBot is annoying?
    Maybe, but if so, he's rather failed in the important task of separating being annoying to characters with being annoying to the audience.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    But who is you? If the goal is to feel like your body is correct and your brain is getting it wrong, why is one less ethical than the other?
    Because thats assuming your brain is wrong.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Because thats assuming your brain is wrong.
    Your body is less you than your mind is?
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    What if both options were equally valid? If you could just casually switch to the body type you feel you are OR easily change your mind so you no longer feel uncomfortable in your current one. Which would be considered the right option? Would both be equally acceptable? Something tells me the mental switch would be the less ethical option as it feels somehow worse to alter your mind than your body. Your mind is who you are, you know?
    Is it unethical to treat mental illnesses?
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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