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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    This feels off topic. It's actually a question I once asked in the LGBT question thread, you probably could take it over there.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Your body is less you than your mind is?
    See thats where it gets tough. What makes you... you? Is it your physical body thats important? Or your mind? Which is more intrinsically you?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I don't think that's an ambiguous question for a species that expects to go through several bodies over the course of an individual mind's existence.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I wonder if Roko was spared this https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1496
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Why did spooky bot turn up?

    They didn't make an appointment when they turned up earlier, but Basilisk expected them right to the second, how did she do that?
    Ever had one of those days where you might think "the only way this day could possibly get worse is if a really smug deity showed up to needle me about it"? Well Roko has, and then she remembered that's a thing that actually exists in her universe. And Spookybot remembered she'd remember that weeks ago, and made arrangements to be here to let Roko be satisfied about being right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Because thats assuming your brain is wrong.
    I'm one of those people who ruins X-stalt/epic games for everybody who's just wanting to play legendary figures.

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  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    So is Spookybot serious here, or is this just another manifestation of its apparent campaign to harass Roko?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    is spopkybot the singularity or just it’s litte brother?
    * my emphasis

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    Things that don't kill me make me strong
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Stop trying to humanize your ai god character, please. If you wanted them to be an actual character you shouldn't have made them feel like a force of nature before.
    Can we please go back to whacky hijinks? Or is the Starpower thread just rubbing off on me?
    "What's done is done."

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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    If this is a post-singularity AI, it's one of the least interesting I've ever encountered in fiction.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    This... just made DEM far less interesting. If they actually become a proper member if the cast, I quit.
    R.I.P. Wrecan, he was a true organizer and a gentleman.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Stop trying to humanize your ai god character, please. If you wanted them to be an actual character you shouldn't have made them feel like a force of nature before.
    Howard Tayler with Schlock Mercenary tried to have an AI god character with 'humanity,' and it only barely worked even when it went the other way around (nearly human-scale single ship AI => demigod, not starting out as demigod).

    Overall, it doesn't really matter the specifics. Spookybot is annoying. In no small part because they were brought in as a deus ex machina to the Bubbles/Corpse Witch storyline. I hope Jeph recognizes this (for that matter, I hope I'm right that the fanbase in general has the same opinion, I could be wrong).

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Oh good, the godlike AI that had no qualms about torturing someone it determined to be bad has "struggles with the concept ethics". That is very good to know.

    Can we call her "AM" yet?
    Last edited by Beelzebub1111; 2019-01-23 at 08:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Wow you guys are REALLY down on this whole arc. Like literally nothing about it gets anything but annoyance anger or mockery from you. Yes, a godlike being whom nobody could stop has to struggle to maintain its own list of rules because nobody else can enforce them. Its a great power/great responsibility angle with the added difficulty of being so powerful you can do anything you want and not wanting to turn into a monster or tyrant. I have absolutely no problem with this sort of thing. Same for wanting friendship. Ive read a number of stories that explore what it means to be a god, that a lack of connection to the mortals around you leads you to being a total butthat like the olympians, playing games with their lives for amusement because its no more impactful than playing with plastic soldiers to you. Spookybot likely wants to avoid that.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Oh good, the godlike AI that had no qualms about torturing someone it determined to be bad has "struggles with the concept ethics". That is very good to know.

    Can we call her "AM" yet?
    Ooh, please. This arc really could use an AM or a SHODAN.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Wow you guys are REALLY down on this whole arc.
    I, for one, am not too down about the arc as a whole (although, yes, I am worried that Jeph will try to make it another issue arc, which did not turn out well last time). Spookybot, OTOH, yes, yes I am down on. I did not like their introduction, and haven't enjoyed any other time they've shown up. More to the point, they seem to detract from, not add to, the worldbuilding for the other AIs (whose stories I am genuinely interested in).

    You are not wrong that this thread seems to have drifted towards waiting for the comic to let us down in some way, and that's not great.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Wow you guys are REALLY down on this whole arc. Like literally nothing about it gets anything but annoyance anger or mockery from you. Yes, a godlike being whom nobody could stop has to struggle to maintain its own list of rules because nobody else can enforce them. Its a great power/great responsibility angle with the added difficulty of being so powerful you can do anything you want and not wanting to turn into a monster or tyrant. I have absolutely no problem with this sort of thing. Same for wanting friendship. Ive read a number of stories that explore what it means to be a god, that a lack of connection to the mortals around you leads you to being a total butthat like the olympians, playing games with their lives for amusement because its no more impactful than playing with plastic soldiers to you. Spookybot likely wants to avoid that.
    It's doing a piss poor job of it. I don't know why I should trust something that decided to play juge jury and executioner when, by its own admission, it struggles with the difference between right and wrong! That's messed up!

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Not sure about the whole "friend" thing, but I totally saw coming the "sanctity of mind" answer. It's in character for them.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Not sure about the whole "friend" thing, but I totally saw coming the "sanctity of mind" answer. It's in character for them.
    In as much as im pretty sure they said it once before. Didn't their action on Corpse Witch amount to invading her mind and threatening to mentally torture her for the rest of her existence if she didn't surrender herself to the police?

    That sounds an awful lot like "do as I say, not as I do" to me.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Just re-reading the past few comics, and it looks like the only reason Spookybot showed up is to say "hope you get better soon".

    Which seems odd to me. Why does a superpowerful AI that pretty much nobody knows exists go around saying "get well soon" to random people? Judging by the AI population we've seen in Northampton alone, there must be millions of AI worldwide. Why is this superpowered AI getting involved ?

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    In as much as im pretty sure they said it once before. Didn't their action on Corpse Witch amount to invading her mind and threatening to mentally torture her for the rest of her existence if she didn't surrender herself to the police?

    That sounds an awful lot like "do as I say, not as I do" to me.
    Thats sorta like saying that locking a kidnapper up in jail is the same thing as being a kidnapper yourself. This AI found out cw was messing with the mind of another ai, knew there wasnt any normal method by which she would be caught and punished, so took it into his or her own hands to stop that piece of garbage. I suppose it could have been done differently with a lot more string pulling behind the scenes to make sure evidence "just happened" to be discovered that "just happened" to implicate cw, that "just happened" to counter any connections she had, etc etc etc. Instead it was simpler to punish her till she surrendered, hand over the evidence so it was a one two punch, then move on. And yes, there are all sorts of ethical complications there, which is part of the reason spooky doesnt tend to do much (so far as we know) As for,
    It's doing a piss poor job of it. I don't know why I should trust something that decided to play juge jury and executioner when, by its own admission, it struggles with the difference between right and wrong! That's messed up!
    It may not know everything that is right and wrong, but it does know that erasing memories and enslaving someone through extortion and blackmail is bad.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    In as much as im pretty sure they said it once before. Didn't their action on Corpse Witch amount to invading her mind and threatening to mentally torture her for the rest of her existence if she didn't surrender herself to the police?

    That sounds an awful lot like "do as I say, not as I do" to me.
    It's one thing to say "Do as I say or I'll put your pain sensors in an ever escalating loop for all eternity". It's another thing to just reach in her mind and remove her ability to do anything but what you say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Just re-reading the past few comics, and it looks like the only reason Spookybot showed up is to say "hope you get better soon".

    Which seems odd to me. Why does a superpowerful AI that pretty much nobody knows exists go around saying "get well soon" to random people? Judging by the AI population we've seen in Northampton alone, there must be millions of AI worldwide. Why is this superpowered AI getting involved ?
    Spookybot has indicated they feel some responsibility for Roko and her current situation. All her efforts to make sure the Robot Fights were above board (if illegal) and stop Corpse Witch came to nothing; they stepped in and solved the whole problem in an hour or so, thus leading her to question what good she was as a cop. The only other people they might have similar feelings for would be Bubbles, Faye, and Emily, and none of them are in trouble.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    Spookybot has indicated they feel some responsibility for Roko and her current situation. All her efforts to make sure the Robot Fights were above board (if illegal) and stop Corpse Witch came to nothing; they stepped in and solved the whole problem in an hour or so, thus leading her to question what good she was as a cop. The only other people they might have similar feelings for would be Bubbles, Faye, and Emily, and none of them are in trouble.
    That would be true if Spookybot were a normal person. They're not, they're a super advanced AI with global reach and which is so secret Station didn't know of their existence.

    So again, why does this Super AI care about a random AI in Northampton of all places? The story setting up as "aw, Spookybot may be all powerful but they don't have friends", which to me simply doesn't work in the previous context of the character's appearances. Bubbles and Roko's experiences are so small-time on a global stage that they should be passing beneath Spookybot's notice.

    He's trying to make Spookybot a main cast member, but you simply can't do that with a character that far advanced above the rest of the cast. It'd be like if Q suddenly became Ensign Q and stayed on the Enterprise for an entire season (and without any depowers either). I just don't buy it.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Thats sorta like saying that locking a kidnapper up in jail is the same thing as being a kidnapper yourself. This AI found out cw was messing with the mind of another ai, knew there wasnt any normal method by which she would be caught and punished, so took it into his or her own hands to stop that piece of garbage. I suppose it could have been done differently with a lot more string pulling behind the scenes to make sure evidence "just happened" to be discovered that "just happened" to implicate cw, that "just happened" to counter any connections she had, etc etc etc. Instead it was simpler to punish her till she surrendered, hand over the evidence so it was a one two punch, then move on. And yes, there are all sorts of ethical complications there, which is part of the reason spooky doesnt tend to do much (so far as we know) As for,

    It may not know everything that is right and wrong, but it does know that erasing memories and enslaving someone through extortion and blackmail is bad.
    I guess I fail to see the difference between "I will invade your mind and force you to do what I want" and "I will invade your mind and do bad things to you until you do what I want."
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    It may not know everything that is right and wrong, but it does know that erasing memories and enslaving someone through extortion and blackmail is bad.
    Not quite. It knows that this things are bad to do to people who are "not bad". If the person is "bad" then it's okay.

    And it admits to being shaky on "bad". Can you see how that is a huge red flag?

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I guess I fail to see the difference between "I will invade your mind and force you to do what I want" and "I will invade your mind and do bad things to you until you do what I want."
    Again, its the difference between "I will lock you in a cage because of the lulz" and "I will lock you in a cage because you are a criminal." Or "I will kill you for fun" versus "I will kill you to save the lives of others"
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Just re-reading the past few comics, and it looks like the only reason Spookybot showed up is to say "hope you get better soon".

    Which seems odd to me. Why does a superpowerful AI that pretty much nobody knows exists go around saying "get well soon" to random people? Judging by the AI population we've seen in Northampton alone, there must be millions of AI worldwide. Why is this superpowered AI getting involved ?
    Bubbles knew she existed, somehow. Possibly because she was in the army? It's weird that she knows and Station doesn't, though. Also, I guess that her thing with Bubbles was her way to go public, given that now Station also knows that she exists, and it was clear that news would get out, since the whole thing was known to her because of eavesdropping on communications?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Thats sorta like saying that locking a kidnapper up in jail is the same thing as being a kidnapper yourself.
    Locking up a kidnapper into your basement to torture him until he gives up evidence looks like kidnapping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub1111 View Post
    Not quite. It knows that this things are bad to do to people who are "not bad". If the person is "bad" then it's okay.

    And it admits to being shaky on "bad". Can you see how that is a huge red flag?
    She should just buy some D&D supplements. Fix her morality right up!
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    That would be true if Spookybot were a normal person. They're not, they're a super advanced AI with global reach and which is so secret Station didn't know of their existence.

    So again, why does this Super AI care about a random AI in Northampton of all places? The story setting up as "aw, Spookybot may be all powerful but they don't have friends", which to me simply doesn't work in the previous context of the character's appearances. Bubbles and Roko's experiences are so small-time on a global stage that they should be passing beneath Spookybot's notice.
    Because it believes Roko is a collateral element from a thing Spookybot did, far as I can tell. Spookybot got involved with Bubbles explicitly because Corpse Witch managed to attract the Eye of Sauron on herself by doing one of the few things Spookybot, by its own admission, personally cares about. Roko just got entangled into it and there's a direct line between "thing Spookybot got involved in" and "Roko quit her job and started struggling", so now it seems Spookybot feels it has part of the responsibility for screwing Roko up.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Again, its the difference between "I will lock you in a cage because of the lulz" and "I will lock you in a cage because you are a criminal." Or "I will kill you for fun" versus "I will kill you to save the lives of others"
    I recognize that you believe theres a distinction here, but the analogy doesn't fit. This would be more like torture and abuse than imprisonment. "I believe that X is wrong, period, with almost no exceptions... but you ticked me off so im going to do it to you until you satisfy me."

    Can you not see how that rubs me the wrong way?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    I can't help but feel that today's little speech is a bit of a retcon of stuff we've seen it do in earlier strips, and a fairly clumsy one at that.

    Squidbot allegedly respects the sanctity of mind... except when it goes around vulkan nerve-pinching the entire Coffee O Doom staff into unconsciousness.
    It says that it only helped Bubbles directly as a last resort and to undo someone else's violence.... Except for that time when it gleefully invaded Corpse Witch's mind and inflicted violence upon her without due process.

    Let's not also forget that it seems to have at the very least planted bugs in public places (it heard Bubbles say 'thank you' to the otherwise empty room) if not have some form of omniscience by being linked to everyone's wifi at the same time to something. It's manipulative, invasive, and admits that it is so inherently powerful that it is among those supercomputers to whom human thought-processes are an abstract with minimal runtime needed to maintain them.... And now it has approached Roko on a very vague premise of being friends for some reason.

    Roko is right to be very, very sceptical of anything it says.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Bubbles knew she existed, somehow. Possibly because she was in the army? It's weird that she knows and Station doesn't, though. Also, I guess that her thing with Bubbles was her way to go public, given that now Station also knows that she exists, and it was clear that news would get out, since the whole thing was known to her because of eavesdropping on communications?
    That kind of makes sense to me. Station is home/caretaker to the scientists like Hannelore's Dad, and like them has a specific interest in science and academia. In QC, such people are unfailingly portrayed as being social inept and constantly preoccupied with their experiments, whereas "normal" people like Marten are comparatively less intellectually successful but more rounded in their general knowledge.

    To put it simply, Station is a nerd who hangs out in nerd circles, whereas Bubbles being more down-to-earth and thus streetwise is more likely to have heard urban legends and rumours and the likes. Similarly, Squidbot would likely be actively avoiding Station and his compatriots as they are among the very few entities shown so far who might actually be a threat to it.
    You don't know what it was like.
    You weren't there.
    You never fought in the Console Wars.

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Dec 2015

    Default Re: Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Thats sorta like saying that locking a kidnapper up in jail is the same thing as being a kidnapper yourself.
    Unless you are a socially sanctioned officer of the law, you are. Even then, there are whole schools of thought and many a criminal justice dissertation has been spent on the question of when and how a society should be using incarceration as a form of coercion.

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