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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    I totally agree with this part, but I admit I'm not sure how to implement it. I'm sure GW will think of something.
    I can take care of the logistics.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I can take care of the logistics.
    Are the balloons going to drop on *everyone* when the right guess is made? Presumably when they read the post?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Are the balloons going to drop on *everyone* when the right guess is made? Presumably when they read the post?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    The dropping is easy, I'm morally opposed to using Helium for trivial purposes. It's the getting into everyone's home and setting up the device that's the tricky part.

    I find a crowbar on the windows works well.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Are the balloons going to drop on *everyone* when the right guess is made? Presumably when they read the post?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    Worst part is, its technologically doable. Rawhide could set up a script that whenever a page loads with a string matching the name of the creature, those annoying "it's somone's birthday" balloons you get in ****ty websites and twitter (but I repeat myself) load on top of what you are trying to read.

    So, if Peelee does manage to convince Rich and Rawhide, it could be done.

    Shall I hold my breath, you think?

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-03-14 at 09:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Worst part is, its technologically doable. Rawhide could set up a script that whenever a page loads with a string matching the name of the creature, those annoying "it's somone's birthday" balloons you get in ****ty websites and twitter (but I repeate myself) load on top of what you are trying to read.

    So, if Peelee does manage to convince Rich and Rawhide, it could be done.

    Shall I hold my breath, you think?

    Grey Wolf
    Hmmm. The non-felony option is intriguing.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Power View Post
    I'm obviously going to prefer A, but I'm not going to be told "It can't be FBS because its not ugly enough and if you subtract 8+ from its strength it's not strong enough for the tower scene," when that also applies to something else on the list.
    You have been told that Huge is not the same as Colossal, and thus shrinking down a Huge Glabrezu to Large or Medium does not imply the same Strength reduction (or the same--in your words--ridiculous stretch) as shrinking a Colossal Ha-Naga to Large or Medium. Your apparent desire to handwave size into complete irrelevance may be the only completely unique-thus-far demand you've made.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    Good thing real world biologists / taxonomists are more orderly-minded than whoever created those D&D categories - if not we may have cats and dogs as "animals" and giraffes as "aberrations". Or worse even, most standard-shaped dogs would be animals while poodles and wiener dogs would be aberrations ;)

    Two questions for 3Power as someone who is willing to be open-minded towards the Ha-Naga:

    (lio45's 2 questions)
    Two points of order:

    1) Poodles and wiener dogs ARE Aberrations.

    2) I'm on record, multiple times now, as being open-minded. I went so far as to list what I considered its good points. So far, though, the negatives outweigh the positives by too much to convince me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Are the balloons going to drop on *everyone* when the right guess is made? Presumably when they read the post?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    Yes. Also, there will be clowns.
    Last edited by Darth Paul; 2019-03-14 at 11:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    I helped name a thread! MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
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  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Errr...
    Mr. Scruffy was wearing a belt of giant strength at the time, explaining where his strength came from.
    It explains where +4 to +6 of his strength came from. Going by a housecat animal companion stats, that puts his strength at 10 to 12. Meaning that an average human being can knock a dog clear across the room.

    The point here is that the actual stats got in the way of the joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Hrm, I'm going to disagree with B. We agree that a high STR is necessary for the Tower scene, and the Glabrezu's STR is far higher than the Ha-Naga's. If you scale the Ha-Naga down to Huge (or the Glabrezu up to Colossal), the Glabrezu's STR is 20 points higher than the Ha-Naga's, comparable to the difference between Roy and normal human child. These aren't creatures with comparable amounts of STR. The Ha-naga can fail w/o the Glabrezu also failing. In terms of appearance weirdness, I disagree but judging aesthetics isn't really my strong suit so I don't really weigh that very heavily.
    The issue is that the Glabrezu fails if you lower its size using the size increase rules, just as the ha-naga does. Not how comparable their Strength is at the same size.

    What's your argument for setting the STR limit at 25 rather than something lower? In other words, if a year from now, someone comes in with a candidate that seems like a good fit except that it has a 22 STR, how would you defend declaring 22 too low?
    In D&D, 25 is the highest score a creature with a +2 racial bonus can achieve without the aid of magic or special abilities, such as rage. In short, an ordinary member of any species with a STR score of 25 is equal in strength to the strongest level 20 half-orc fighter in the land.

    I would say "As strong as the strongest possible PC" is a good minimum baseline for strength.

    And yes, I know I'm not considering epic levels here. Only base game.
    Finally, what do you consider "more actual contenders" for the FBS list? Are you going to propose them?
    Sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    You have been told that Huge is not the same as Colossal, and thus shrinking down a Huge Glabrezu to Large or Medium does not imply the same Strength reduction (or the same--in your words--ridiculous stretch) as shrinking a Colossal Ha-Naga to Large or Medium. Your apparent desire to handwave size into complete irrelevance may be the only completely unique-thus-far demand you've made.
    I can't keep what everyone thinks straight. So you don't care about the tower requirement but hate the idea of size reduction?

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Power View Post
    The issue is that the Glabrezu fails if you lower its size using the size increase rules, just as the ha-naga does. Not how comparable their Strength is at the same size.

    In D&D, 25 is the highest score a creature with a +2 racial bonus can achieve without the aid of magic or special abilities, such as rage. In short, an ordinary member of any species with a STR score of 25 is equal in strength to the strongest level 20 half-orc fighter in the land.

    I would say "As strong as the strongest possible PC" is a good minimum baseline for strength.
    No, the Glabrezu is ok on size. FBS rules allow up to Huge so it doesn’t require a penalty. That was worked out a while back. Were you around for the discussion on medieval carpentry and wood density? If not, suffice to say people aren’t merely willing to calculate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, they’ll extrapolate down a few decimal points.

    Why a +2 racial bonus and no magic item?
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Power View Post
    I can't keep what everyone thinks straight. So you don't care about the tower requirement but hate the idea of size reduction?
    How on earth you got that from what I said, I have no idea. Y'might want to try harder to actually process what other people think.

    Here are the relative sizes of the species involved, btw. Redcloak on the left, Xykon on the right, and I suspect anyone reading this can figure out which is the glabrezu and which is the ha-naga.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Why a +2 racial bonus and no magic item?
    Because you get +1 to an ability score every four non-epic levels. Half-orc rolls 18, starts at Strength 20, goes to 21 at level 4, 22 at level 8...25 at level 20.

    What it has to do with the creature in the darkness (beyond that it seems it would logically translate to "23 is the peak of what a completely nonmagical human could achieve with a lifetime of training, and thus well short of the cartoon physics demonstrated in the tower scene," not to "25 is the mimimum number we should be looking for,") I don't know.
    Last edited by Kish; 2019-03-15 at 11:08 AM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    How on earth you got that from what I said, I have no idea. Y'might want to try harder to actually process what other people think.

    Here are the relative sizes of the species involved, btw. Redcloak on the left, Xykon on the right, and I suspect anyone reading this can figure out which is the glabrezu and which is the ha-naga.
    From looking at that picture, am I right in thinking that the Ha-Naga's body's diameter is thicker than the box MitD is in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Here are the relative sizes of the species involved, btw. Redcloak on the left, Xykon on the right, and I suspect anyone reading this can figure out which is the glabrezu and which is the ha-naga.
    So awesome, is possible to have one like that with the creatures on the FBS (or near one) for easy measurement in size? :)

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    From looking at that picture, am I right in thinking that the Ha-Naga's body's diameter is thicker than the box MitD is in?

    Grey Wolf
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendanna View Post
    So awesome, is possible to have one like that with the creatures on the FBS (or near one) for easy measurement in size? :)
    I've added them (except for the amorph, which might cause copyright problems, and anyway would be the same size as Xykon and Redcloak, or smaller).
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  14. - Top - End - #644
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    So, looking at Kish's size comparison picture (thanks, Kish!), a thought occurs to me re: Protean!MitD static eyes. The standard argument to explain them has been for some time now that MitD is spending one action per turn to maintain a face because he is trying to fit in with all these people around him who have faces.

    But now I'm thinking it could be expanded further, and combined with the "why didn't he leave the circus" canon: what if instead of "just" trying to figuratively fit in, he is also physically trying to fit in? I.e. I'm thinking he might be purposely holding partial shape of something with a face... that fits the cage and the umbrella, because it'd be rude to allow his usual mutating form to spill out.

    @Keltest & others with legitimate concerns about the protean's static eyes, would that make more sense than just the face part?

    (I am aware that the issue of how he manages to sleep while partially transformed remains on the table as a concern; this argument is not trying to address that)

    Thanks,

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    So, looking at Kish's size comparison picture (thanks, Kish!), a thought occurs to me re: Protean!MitD static eyes. The standard argument to explain them has been for some time now that MitD is spending one action per turn to maintain a face because he is trying to fit in with all these people around him who have faces.

    But now I'm thinking it could be expanded further, and combined with the "why didn't he leave the circus" canon: what if instead of "just" trying to figuratively fit in, he is also physically trying to fit in? I.e. I'm thinking he might be purposely holding partial shape of something with a face... that fits the cage and the umbrella, because it'd be rude to allow his usual mutating form to spill out.

    @Keltest & others with legitimate concerns about the protean's static eyes, would that make more sense than just the face part?

    (I am aware that the issue of how he manages to sleep while partially transformed remains on the table as a concern; this argument is not trying to address that)

    Thanks,

    Grey Wolf
    Given the MITD's expressed desires to come out of the darkness and general frustration with not being allowed to be seen, im rather skeptical of any explanation that involves him trying to avoid coming out of the darkness on his own initiative. I would also find it odd that Redcloak would, knowing what the MITD is, pick an umbrella and box that are not large enough to shroud him in darkness all the time without him deliberately trying to stay inside of it, especially in light of the established reluctance to do so.

    Its also weird when he tries to reach for objects outside the darkness. Maybe he's actually just trying to rock the box closer or something, but I think there are enough signals that he doesn't actually respect the darkness except that he doesn't want to get caught by Redcloak or Xykon.
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    From Kish's size comparison diagram, I'm finding that nearly everyone is just dealbreakingly large.

    Imagine you're Rich, and that the MitD is whatever your pet theory says it is. So far, it's only been in darkness with ample room. SoD hasn't happened yet (even though chronologically it's a prequel) i.e. at that point, MitD hasn't yet been in a box either.

    Knowing that MitD is what it is, would you go and draw the last panel of this strip as is? Would you be comfortable with that? Knowing that you're already aware MitD will be a guessing game spanning the length of the comic, and that you have to be careful every time you send a clue?

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I just wanted to look this up and confirm it, because I didn't remember it that way, so for anyone else who was similarly confused, Mr. Scruffy puts Sir Scraggly through an already-existing hole in the wall.
    Not to mention that Mr. Scruffy was presumably trying to hit as hard as he could, whereas MitD was trying to hit Miko and Windstriker as softly as he could. It's almost like the person using the Mr. Scruffy scene as evidence for their proposal is leaving out crucial bits of the scene that would undermine said evidence! Imagine that.

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    On a semi-related note, "I can't help but notice that your sense of team spirit is inversely proportionate to your number of functioning appendages, sir" has to be pretty high up my list of memorable OotS quotes (ironic, as I had kinda forgotten about it until I had to find this comic for this thread).
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  19. - Top - End - #649
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    From Kish's size comparison diagram, I'm finding that nearly everyone is just dealbreakingly large.
    Same. I find it hard to imagine Rich, having the entire search field at his fingertips, would go for a gargantuan or larger creature, when there are smaller candidates of similar power level. But I don't make the rules (literally, I voted for "no bigger than Large", but that was defeated by "no bigger than Huge").

    That said, remember that the smallest Huge creature is about the same height as the largest Large creature. The way I try to think of it is that a tall halfling can be as tall as a short dwarf. The dwarf will still have considerably more mass, but in the end, it's a bit of a line in the sand. Combined with the fact that his dad was bigger, we've always allowed MitD to be smaller than the base creature. But, as we have hashed out, suspension of disbelief gets more and more strained the bigger the base creature is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    On a semi-related note, "I can't help but notice that your sense of team spirit is inversely proportionate to your number of functioning appendages, sir" has to be pretty high up my list of memorable OotS quotes (ironic, as I had kinda forgotten about it until I had to find this comic for this thread).
    I think I like the reply even better:

    "Cute. Did you actually grow a spine there, Redcloak?"
    "Perhaps I just got hit with a piece of yours when you exploded, sir."

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Same. I find it hard to imagine Rich, having the entire search field at his fingertips, would go for a gargantuan or larger creature, when there are smaller candidates of similar power level. But I don't make the rules (literally, I voted for "no bigger than Large", but that was defeated by "no bigger than Huge").
    Sometimes it feels like the community here sees almost things chronologically the opposite way it should - MitD has been known to fit in a box of a certain size, therefore Rich has been forced to handwave stuff and stretch stuff in order to make "his chosen creature" fit the pre-existing box. The truth, of course, is very different - Rich (freely) picked a creature, which at that time had only been shown in darkness without boundaries, THEN much later, picked a box/an umbrella without any constraints.

    In the last panel of #147, MitD could've been IMO at least 150% larger without any art problems. Look at Gannji and Enor. The size distribution of Team Evil could've looked like that without any art issues.

    Though, if I wanted to play Devil's Advocate against you and I, I'd point out that MitD is a baby of his species. Which, of course, excludes anything that has babies that would be way too big. I absolutely share your dislike of any size stretches, because it's crystal clear to me that Rich did not have any need or reason whatsoever to stretch anything when he showed us the size of MitD.
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    I'd point out that MitD is a baby of his species.
    Did you mean "might be" there? because otherwise I'd want some kind of citation for it.

    Heck, even as a hypothetical, it seems exceedingly unlikely that MitD is a baby - he is childish, yes, but not a baby. Given his dislike of girls in secret clubs and penchant for action figures, I'd set his mental age at around 8-12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Yep, but then we also recall how much people voted for Terrasque (is that around the size of the ha-naga or higher?) under that umbrella.

    ¿Question? I recall that in those "print figurines of each season" has figures for team evil, and I think the Mitd is in.

    Could be that a clue? in which one he was in? does he has the medium size on it? it would have been awesome if that finally help to know the size of the CitD. :)

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendanna View Post
    Yep, but then we also recall how much people voted for Terrasque (is that around the size of the ha-naga or higher?) under that umbrella.
    Tarrasque and Ha-Naga are both Colossal, the largest category there is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    I'm very open to your "B".

    Also, regarding size - could 64 ft "tall" for Colossal mean merely 64 ft long for a snake? In which case, a (nearly-)standard-sized Ha-Naga, with his body coiled, could fit in a compact manner under that umbrella, maybe....?

    Look at the (approx) linear length vs coiled volume ratio:



    (random image from a google search; for full url, quote my post and you'll see it)
    The Marilith is 20 feet long, and only large, presumably because it is snake-like. Now, of course the D&D writers need not be consistent (understatement), but there is precedent for a creature's size to not be based on head to tail length if it is snake-like.

    [EDITED TO ADD] The SRD lists nagas as 10-20 feet long, and all listed nagas in the SRD are large (with advancement to huge, so the length being discussed doesn't account for advanced size). Again implying that a snake-like creature uses slightly larger range increments. I'd add that the "medium" constrictor snake is supposed to be a threat to low level PC groups (CR 2, which means it's supposed to be more dangerous than a level 1 PC-type), which is exceedingly unlikely if we're talking an 8' snake. Basically, I don't think that a 64' snake-like should be colossal, for consistency, I think it should be 80'+, then we run into the fact that I'm talking about the writers of a D&D splat being consistent and/or about Rich making the same deductions about length that I have....

    So not good evidence either way.


    Quote Originally Posted by 3Power View Post
    Which brings us back to the start of the disagreement again - subjective interpretations of the tower scene and how likely it was for Rich to base the physical comedy on rules that rarely come up in the game itself.

    27 Strength is 2 points stronger than the standard D&D cap for magically non-enhanced strength. An average Ha-naga is 8 times stronger than an Average Half Orc. I could imagine a raging thog pulling off the tower scene himself at level 20.

    And I'm sure that opinion has nothing all to do with the fact that your primary choice is a monster for whom the eyes are the single greatest inconsistency.
    There is no cap in 3.x for non-enhanced strength. An orc PC can hit a non-enhanced strength of 27 without rage at non-epic levels, a raging orc barbarian 20 can have 35 strength and a raging half ork can have 33 strength. Again with no magical enhancement.
    Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2019-03-15 at 04:13 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #656
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Did you mean "might be" there? because otherwise I'd want some kind of citation for it.
    No, I mean that the Devil's Advocate argument for explaining observed size in a satisfying manner can go all the way to "it's a baby of its species".

    Basically, I'm okay with anything that physically fits into the space shown. If a baby Tarrasque fits, then it fits. If not, then not.

    It's plausible that Rich picked "a baby X" as his creature. We know MitD is a child. It's normal that he's smaller than the base creature.

    But it's not plausible that after having picked what he picked, he then went ahead (in comic #147 and later) to draw MitD being of a different size than the size of what he picked.



    Heck, even as a hypothetical, it seems exceedingly unlikely that MitD is a baby - he is childish, yes, but not a baby. Given his dislike of girls in secret clubs and penchant for action figures, I'd set his mental age at around 8-12.

    Grey Wolf
    I completely agree, but my point here is that "Rich decided that MitD was a baby, and sized him accordingly, though he's in fact making him act more like a 8-12 year old child" is already a much more viable argument to me than "Rich freely chose to draw MitD a clearly different size than what MitD normally would be, for some reason".


    ETA:

    In a nutshell,

    If a baby X is "Large" even though an adult X is "Colossal", I'm okay with X as a FBS.

    If a newborn X is already "Gargantuan" on the day it's born, then I'm not okay with X as a candidate.
    Last edited by lio45; 2019-03-15 at 02:47 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #657
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I think I like the reply even better:

    "Cute. Did you actually grow a spine there, Redcloak?"
    "Perhaps I just got hit with a piece of yours when you exploded, sir."
    Yeah, I'm also a total fan of the reply, I just didn't want to needlessly quote too much dialogue, but I agree that entire exchange is epic humor :D

    ... speaking of which, I know this level of humor "quality" wasn't realistically tenable for 15+ years, but I really miss the writing of the Rich Burlew of that era.
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  28. - Top - End - #658
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    No, the Glabrezu is ok on size. ]FBS rules allow up to Huge so it doesn’t require a penalty. That was worked out a while back. Were you around for the discussion on medieval carpentry and wood density? If not, suffice to say people aren’t merely willing to calculate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, they’ll extrapolate down a few decimal points.

    Why a +2 racial bonus and no magic item?
    +2 is the highest bonus of the default races. Non-default races can go higher. If you want to set it as human baseline you can reduce it to 23. No magic item because MitD isn't allowed to use magic to buff its strength, or so people in this thread decided.

    In any case, there is no way that the MitD is Huge sized when he's smaller than the medium sized Oona. There is a little bit of finickiness with the mins and maxes of each size category and the height vs length thing. But I really can't see it as anything actually bigger than large, visually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    How on earth you got that from what I said, I have no idea. Y'might want to try harder to actually process what other people think.
    You seem to be making the point that colossal creatures need to be reduced further than huge creatures to get to large size, which goes without saying. It completely ignores the fact that "large" versions of both creatures fail the strength test.

    What it has to do with the creature in the darkness (beyond that it seems it would logically translate to "23 is the peak of what a completely nonmagical human could achieve with a lifetime of training, and thus well short of the cartoon physics demonstrated in the tower scene," not to "25 is the mimimum number we should be looking for,") I don't know.
    It's a good starting baseline for "strong" and all we can be sure that the tower scene tells us is that the MitD is strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    From Kish's size comparison diagram, I'm finding that nearly everyone is just dealbreakingly large.

    Imagine you're Rich, and that the MitD is whatever your pet theory says it is. So far, it's only been in darkness with ample room. SoD hasn't happened yet (even though chronologically it's a prequel) i.e. at that point, MitD hasn't yet been in a box either.

    Knowing that MitD is what it is, would you go and draw the last panel of this strip as is? Would you be comfortable with that? Knowing that you're already aware MitD will be a guessing game spanning the length of the comic, and that you have to be careful every time you send a clue?

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html
    I'd say that as long as I gave clues about what was handwaved I would find a size reduction justifiable. Especially if the size was not what was iconic about the creature. Nevertheless, one thought that had crossed my mind was that the size thing started out as an accident. I definitely think the language thing was an accident. (Or at least an acknowledgement that said information was missing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    There is no cap in 3.x for non-enhanced strength. An orc PC can hit a non-enhanced strength of 27 without rage at non-epic levels, a raging orc barbarian 20 can have 35 strength and a raging half ork can have 33 strength. Again with no magical enhancement.
    This is an argument over semantics. I specifically am setting a non-epic, non-magical, non-temp bonus, phb-race only cap.
    Last edited by 3Power; 2019-03-15 at 03:56 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #659
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    If a baby Tarrasque fits, then it fits. If not, then not.
    The issue here is that there are no published statistics for babies of any species except possibly dragons. SO it is impossibly to determine if the baby fits.

    Also: Tarrasque doesn't reproduce. There is only ever the one Tarrasque.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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  30. - Top - End - #660
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    Default Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by 3Power View Post
    It explains where +4 to +6 of his strength came from. Going by a housecat animal companion stats, that puts his strength at 10 to 12. Meaning that an average human being can knock a dog clear across the room.

    The point here is that the actual stats got in the way of the joke.
    Yeah, because that was a joke.

    Whenever MitD does something THAT clearly, EVEN if there's a joke aspect to it, it's ALSO an official clue and Rich knows that and Rich wouldn't mislead us. It's serious business...

    The Tower Scene says "MitD is, physically, extraordinarly powerful".

    I haven't yet paid too much attention to the Glabrezu but if it's too weak for my higher-than-thread-average standards, I'll second your motion to kick it off the list.

    I'm certainly not going to help you take Carbosilicate Amorph off it, given that my pet project here, if I had to pick one (beyond "make some tweaks to the OP to better reflect Rich's newer comments"), would be to add the King of FBS candidates, Snorlax, to the list.

    I'm not a fan of treating "copyrighted" as a separate drawback. "Should technically be unusable because copyrighted" is much less of a dealbreaker to me than "No ifs or buts about the inescapable fact that it's much bigger than what Rich went ahead and drew in the last panel of Strip #147".
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