MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Maybe you should read the last... ten-ish pages of the previous thread then? :P

1i fails to mention that Rich's quote gives us a reason to believe MitD is not an obscure monster. It actually says the opposite! (A section of text which, as I said, likely predates that newish-in-the-context-of-these-threads quote from Rich, and has never been revised since that quote got out.)

The author quotes say nothing of the sort, despite your insistence that they do.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

One effect of my suggested change is that we're going to stop seeing people showing up in these threads regularly to explain to the community that Rich's quotes imply that MitD's species has to be "famous" / "recognizable".

One thing I've noted is that such people never actually suggest something. And, I have to note one again, that this perceived problem hasn't stopped anybody from suggesting "famous/recognizable" possibilities, as evidenced by those extensive lists.

[Darth Paul]

Maybe you should read the last... ten-ish pages of the previous thread then? :P

Well... I was there for that debate, which we're continuing. I'm trying to talk you into giving me something concrete on your side.

1i fails to mention that Rich's quote gives us a reason to believe MitD is not an obscure monster. It actually says the opposite! (A section of text which, as I said, likely predates that newish-in-the-context-of-these-threads quote from Rich, and has never been revised since that quote got out.)

And again I ask- how does his quote give us a reason to believe that? That's your highly subjective interpretation. I don't read anything in the quote that even hints at how "famous" MitD is. (Btw, since the "answer" will come by way of "the reveal", I use those interchangeably.)

And further down, in 4, there's also content that implies the search is about continuing to look in dusty official sourcebooks.

Are you talking about this part of section 4?

Haven't you checked all D&D creatures by now?
Not even close. There are literally thousand of official creatures, and beyond counting for third-party creatures published in all manner splatbooks. To illustrate just how deep the search space goes, consider that Crusher, in the space of an afternoon, checked one new source and found 5 new better-than-average candidates, and then repeated the feat a few pages later. There remains a lot of material to explore.

Because right underneath there's

Does MitD have to be a D&D creature?
No, not at all. Rich has never said that MitD is a D&D creature, only that, whatever he is, he didn't make his species up.

Which I think says as well as anything that nobody is restricted to looking in dusty sourcebooks.

Last but not least,

One effect of my suggested change is that we're going to stop seeing people showing up in these threads regularly to explain to the community that Rich's quotes imply that MitD's species has to be "famous" / "recognizable". That's one of the main purposes of the Introduction Posts: they're there to cover such high-frequency recurrent things so that newcomers see they've already been considered/addressed, and stop bringing them up (or at least, don't bring them up as often; i.e. only to discuss them further, as opposed to bringing them up believing they're the first ones to have thought of it).

Case in point, a mere few posts ago, we have yet again someone whose username I haven't yet seen who is bringing up for the umpteenth time:

No matter what is in the FAQ, we can't be sure new posters will read them top to bottom, or memorize everything in them. I myself missed a fairly huge clue contained in one of the links, and fessed up to it. And I think including a statement that the author has implied that MitD is of a species that is "famous/recognizable" when he has done no such thing, would simply be misleading. Unless, and I extend this invitation again, you can explain HOW Rich implies that MitD is famous or recognizable.

Reading NobleCuriosity's post again, moreover, it had nothing whatsoever to do with how "famous" MitD might be. It was a brilliant commentary on how the possibility that MitD is a shapeshifter could be a commentary on the alignment system and character evolution, and how that would make a very satisfying reveal from a character perspective. How would adding a section on the fame of the character species affect that?

[woweedd]

So, something I just picked up on. So, when a character is injured, there's a visual display, and, since MITD has no observable features, damage to himt ends ot be displayed by his umbrella's condition, as in the Gate explosion. Here's the thing, though: Look at the last panel of this comic. Despite the fact that the area they just went through contained, as mentioned in the following strip, monsters tough enough to give XYKON actual XP, MITD, looking at his umbrella, isn't even slightly injured. We've always known he's tough, but that ake sit to a whole new level. Just an interesting note.

[Crusher]

Good enough for me. Revise my guess to ANB > Protean.

Sure thing.

Also, congrats on joining me as the only other person to change their guess 3 times!

So, something I just picked up on. So, when a character is injured, there's a visual display, and, since MITD has no observable features, damage to himt ends ot be displayed by his umbrella's condition, as in the Gate explosion. Here's the thing, though: Look at the last panel of this comic. Despite the fact that the area they just went through contained, as mentioned in the following strip, monsters tough enough to give XYKON actual XP, MITD, looking at his umbrella, isn't even slightly injured. We've always known he's tough, but that ake sit to a whole new level. Just an interesting note.

MitD might also have excellent regeneration abilities.

[Darth Paul]

Sure thing.

Also, congrats on joining me as the only other person to change their guess 3 times!

We're a small but elite group. And stay tuned for future developments, guess number 4 may be coming one day...

MitD might also have excellent regeneration abilities.

Protean: regeneration 50 (!!!!!)
Uvuudaum: regen 5, plus fast healing 20 (whatever the difference is)
according to the stats I was able to find anyway

[b_jonas]

woweedd: Maybe. Or maybe he suffered so much damage that Redcloak had to heal him already before that panel. He complains about having to keep his party members alive in the next strip. (The same complaint as Malack and Durkon exchange in #735 second and third panel, by the way.)

[D.One]

We're a small but elite group. And stay tuned for future developments, guess number 4 may be coming one day...

Protean: regeneration 50 (!!!!!)
Uvuudaum: regen 5, plus fast healing 20 (whatever the difference is)
according to the stats I was able to find anyway

Fast healing is just that: healing. The creature takes damage, and than it starts healing at said rate per round.

Regeneration is a bit more complicated: all the damage a creature with Regen takes is nonlethal damage, except for the types of damage on its description (typically fire and acid, but the writers of Epic Level Handbook didn't specify what are the Proteans vulnerable against). The number is the amount of nonlethal damage it heals per round. So, for example, a Troll hit with a sword will take nonlethal damage and will probably never really die from it, but it would de damaged normally form fire, and his regen wouldn't cure that damage.

[NobleCuriosity]

One effect of my suggested change is that we're going to stop seeing people showing up in these threads regularly to explain to the community that Rich's quotes imply that MitD's species has to be "famous" / "recognizable". That's one of the main purposes of the Introduction Posts: they're there to cover such high-frequency recurrent things so that newcomers see they've already been considered/addressed, and stop bringing them up (or at least, don't bring them up as often; i.e. only to discuss them further, as opposed to bringing them up believing they're the first ones to have thought of it).

Case in point, a mere few posts ago, we have yet again someone whose username I haven't yet seen who is bringing up for the umpteenth time:

The last thing that bothers me just a little is Rich replying to that question of “Could any species be worth the wait for the MitD reveal?” with such a confident “Yes.”

I was not arguing that the MitD had to be recognizable or famous at all (and neither word, nor any synonym of them, appears in my post), and find it very disingenuous of you to suggest that to try and make your point. As I hope will be clear from the context reproduced below that you sliced that out of, my point was that it would be more climactic and thematic to have the MitD come from an "always evil" species, which gives me some (but not much) pause on the chaotic neutral Protean.

The last thing that bothers me just a little is Rich replying to that question of “Could any species be worth the wait for the MitD reveal?” with such a confident “Yes.” Recall how Redcloak is so quick to take him on to Team Evil (in spite of Redcloak’s preference for Evil teammates and less important preference for Lawfulness), the whole talk with O-Chul about how MitD is a “good man,” and in particular that O-Chul thinks MitD wouldn’t believe him if he told MitD what he was. All that plus the constant jokes about how his personality makes him a lot less scary than he "should" be, and having to stay in the darkness which smells suspiciously of double meanings about fear of the unknown and lack of understanding of other cultures and stereotypes about dangerous monsters blah blah blah in addition to being a joke. I can’t help but feel like MitD is intended (among other things) to be a big part of Rich’s critique of the alignment system and what it means to be a monster, with MitD’s species and looks in his big reveal coming in sharp and shocking contrast to what we, with our additional information, know about his personality and choices. Him having a species alignment listed as “always chaotic neutral” that he is actually fairly close to (though maybe good) just doesn’t seem to say much. MitD’s identity has been hidden to serve an eventual surprise for over a decade now. What about MitD being revealed to be a Protean is emotionally charged? Why is that a secret worth keeping for so very long, for a reveal which is most certainly not just going to be a joke (as I recall Rich mentioned it as a dramatic moment he was very much looking forward to)? The best I can come up with is that the shapeshifting is a literal symbol for how people-any kind, no matter how seemingly monstrous-can change, that appearance doesn’t always reflect reality, and that thus we shouldn’t have games that encourage the assumption that everything that looks sufficiently different or “monstrous” needs to be killed. But you know what fits that better, which makes it that much more of a genuine shock for the readerbase? A species whose alignment is listed as “Always Evil”—with a fiendish race in particular stunning us by breaking the last assumption about “always evil” creatures that Rich has allowed to hold in his comic (though it’s possible he genuinely wants to allow that one.), a fittingly climactic moment worthy of a decade of buildup that will spark a lot of discussion.

Note that overall I still think the shapeshifting symbolism thing is likely enough, and that MitD is a Protean. But this does give me some pause and doubt.

I would say the ANB is also a good fit to MitD’s abilities (though not as good at explaining the circus scene), and it’s always-chaotic-evil species alignment fits with my doubts. But having to have had an advanced copy sent to Rich is a pretty big ding.

The doubts and the escape scene almost make me want to pick the Glabrezu or Uvuudaum in 3rd. But for the Glabrezu, CR 13 just seems too low to be worth Xykon’s or Redcloak’s time, or to be a credible threat to the Oots; and for the Uvuudaum, literally not having eyes or a mouth at all is just a bit too much for me to buy Rich saying "nothing before then contradicts it."

[b_jonas]

In #178, when Vaarsuvius was polymorphed, she mentions three spells she can still cast. She uses two of those right in the same adventure, but she hasn't used Hold Portal yet. This was after #100, so the Giant was already planning ahead for the plot. Is this a foreshadowing that Vaarsuvius using Hold Portal will be plot-central at one point in the story? Or the opposite, there'll be a plot point where Vaarsuvius should cast Hold Portal, but she doesn't have it prepared because she thinks it's useless. In that case, could this be connected to the MitD, who can't see the gate that Vaarsuvius is trying to Hold? As a bonus, the illusion of a door from #565 could be connected too: since the MitD can't see gates, he'd automatically disbelieve an illusion of a door. Elan has already cast an illusion of a stone wall once, he could try to stop someone with a gate as well.

[woweedd]

In #178, when Vaarsuvius was polymorphed, she mentions three spells she can still cast. She uses two of those right in the same adventure, but she hasn't used Hold Portal yet. This was after #100, so the Giant was already planning ahead for the plot. Is this a foreshadowing that Vaarsuvius using Hold Portal will be plot-central at one point in the story? Or the opposite, there'll be a plot point where Vaarsuvius should cast Hold Portal, but she doesn't have it prepared because she thinks it's useless. In that case, could this be connected to the MitD, who can't see the gate that Vaarsuvius is trying to Hold? As a bonus, the illusion of a door from #565 could be connected too: since the MitD can't see gates, he'd automatically disbelieve an illusion of a door. Elan has already cast an illusion of a stone wall once, he could try to stop someone with a gate as well.

MITD doesn’t have an inability to see gates in general, I don’t think

[b_jonas]

I just bought the new grayscale supplementary OOTS book, Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. I don't think the Giant would give us any important spoilers about the MitD in that book, but he certainly enjoys teasing us a little.

There are three relevant things from the book that I want to quickly mention here.

1. The second story, Scruff and Tumble, has a tiny psionic elephant beetle monster that has a Dimension Door ability. It uses that ability way lots of times on the same day, and uses it in three different ways: teleporting only itself, teleporting itself and another creature, or teleporting another creature only. The monster's species isn't named in the comic, but the previous thread says that it might be a "Carbuncle" or a "Diamondillo".
2. In the same story, we find out that Redcloak and the MitD knew about this monster. The monster was captive for some reason, and Redcloak blames the MitD with it breaking free. It's not clear if this was a monster that Redcloak wanted to experiment with and the MitD isn't even supposed to have touched, or instead a pet that the MitD was supposed to be responsible for. All this happened before the Escape scene. If the MitD is a monster that can shapeshift or imitate the abilities of other monsters, then we'll have to consider if this is somehow related to the Escape. We'll also have to think again about Redcloak's statements, such as when he says that the MitD has broken his Power Ranger figures. The MitD is innocent in the elephant beetle's disappearance, so Redcloak could be wrong about some of his other claims too.
3. In the final story, we find out that the Gate spell, which calls an extraplanar creature for aid, exists in the OOTS world. Since this is a level 9 spell, it's not true-cast, instead a cleric uses a Candle of Invocation for casting it. I only mention this in the MitD thread for two reasons: firstly because section 1g mentions this spell, and secondly because the magic Candle isn't used up for casting this spell, despite that the rules say it should be, which is one more house rules to magic in the Stickiverse.

I'll update the first post to include Good Deeds Gone Unpunished later. Then I'll have to re-read the parts of the previous MitD thread that are related to this book.

[Peelee]

In the final story, we find out that the Gate spell, which calls an extraplanar creature for aid, exists in the OOTS world.

Theory: if the MitD had been present, he wouldn't have seen it.

[Ruck]

We already knew Gate existed because Dorukan cast it in Start of Darkness.

[Kish]

I'm not sure where the idea that any core spell might not exist in the OotS world comes from.

(Other than misreading/misquoting what Rich said about True Resurrection--which also is specifically established as existing in the OotS world, since Haley complained about needing to get someone to cast it for Roy.)

[Peelee]

I'm not sure where the idea that any core spell might not exist in the OotS world comes from.

(Other than misreading/misquoting what Rich said about True Resurrection--which also is specifically established as existing in the OotS world, since Haley complained about needing to get someone to cast it for Roy.)

To be fair, knowing about something and it existing are different. To be more fair, of course, psions aren't core to begin with.

[Emanick]

Theory: if the MitD had been present, he wouldn't have seen it.

Maybe you're joking, but he doesn't seem to have trouble seeing the Gate Redcloak casts here.

[b_jonas]

We already knew Gate existed because Dorukan cast it in Start of Darkness.

Oh, you're right. I totally forgot that. And the MitD was close enough that he may have seen it. Also, Dorukan summoned way more angels through it than should be possible according to the spell description.

[Crusher]

Oh, you're right. I totally forgot that. And the MitD was close enough that he may have seen it. Also, Dorukan summoned way more angels through it than should be possible according to the spell description.

He was an epic-level caster, could have been some funky epic-version of Gate.

[InvisibleBison]

Oh, you're right. I totally forgot that. And the MitD was close enough that he may have seen it. Also, Dorukan summoned way more angels through it than should be possible according to the spell description.

It's possible that he used the planar travel version of Gate to bring to the Material Plane a group of angels he had previously arranged to be available should he need them.

[Emanick]

He was an epic-level caster, could have been some funky epic-version of Gate.

Possibly, but it would be weird if it had the same name as the Gate spell. You'd think it would be called "Greater Gate" or "Epic Gate" or something.

It's possible that he used the planar travel version of Gate to bring to the Material Plane a group of angels he had previously arranged to be available should he need them.

This, on the other hand, makes sense, at least to me. I buy it.

[Quebbster]

It's possible that he used the planar travel version of Gate to bring to the Material Plane a group of angels he had previously arranged to be available should he need them.

He was besieged by goblins and a lich. Makes sense he'd be prepared to go to war if needed. Good call.

[Kish]

To be fair, knowing about something and it existing are different. To be more fair, of course, psions aren't core to begin with.

What Haley says is that they'd need a 17th-level cleric to cast True Resurrection, not that they'd need to find out if True Resurrection exists in the OotS world.

[b_jonas]

I just found that a hobgoblin called Kodrog the Slayer explicitly says in #259 that he knows what the MitD is. (He doesn't tell us.) This wasn't on my list until today.

[Qwertystop]

I just found that a hobgoblin called Kodrog the Slayer explicitly says in #259 that he knows what the MitD is. (He doesn't tell us.) This wasn't on my list until today.

It's come up before; the problem is that (even apart from the humor value) his statement could:
A: Be completed by a physical/visual description ("a constantly-shifting blob of parts", "a giant froggy thing", "a lizard-squirrel")
B: Be wrong due to a misunderstanding.

[D.One]

It's come up before; the problem is that (even apart from the humor value) his statement could:
A: Be completed by a physical/visual description ("a constantly-shifting blob of parts", "a giant froggy thing", "a lizard-squirrel")
B: Be wrong due to a misunderstanding.

If we could only cast Speak with Dead on his corpse...

[Silver2195]

The entry for the ANB in the OP leaves out a pretty big con: its eyes are the wrong color!

[Peelee]

The entry for the ANB in the OP leaves out a pretty big con: its eyes are the wrong color!

New theory: the MitD is colorblind. And also colorblindness totally works that way.

Which reminds me, I need to lodge a formal complaint for to lack of placement of "Italian Protean" as an FBS (or at least light-hearted-ideas) contender. The vagueness is our ally, say I!

[Throknor]

The entry for the ANB in the OP leaves out a pretty big con: its eyes are the wrong color!

Maybe it's in a different portion, but the MITD first appeared before Rich determined what it was. Changing the eye color later would have been a dead giveaway. If it matters I would expect it will be explained as being filtered through the magical darkness or something.

That the eyes can be seen at all through the darkness is artistic license for anything that doesn't have 'glowing yellow eyes' as a characteristic. Being the wrong color is minor in comparison (in my opinion).

[Ruck]

Maybe it's in a different portion, but the MITD first appeared before Rich determined what it was. Changing the eye color later would have been a dead giveaway. If it matters I would expect it will be explained as being filtered through the magical darkness or something.

That the eyes can be seen at all through the darkness is artistic license for anything that doesn't have 'glowing yellow eyes' as a characteristic. Being the wrong color is minor in comparison (in my opinion).

Same for why if MitD is a Protean, the eyes aren't constantly moving around and/or changing in number.

New theory: the MitD is colorblind. And also colorblindness totally works that way.

Which reminds me, I need to lodge a formal complaint for to lack of placement of "Italian Protean" as an FBS (or at least light-hearted-ideas) contender. The vagueness is our ally, say I!

But doctor, I am Monstroliacci.