Only the GM enjoys dialogue during combat.

[Talakeal]

Quick story:

In my game this weekend the PCs were fighting a lycanthrope who was trying to hide her nature, she fought them in human form but when she started to lose decided to shift. Before she changed she said something along the lines of "You guys are tougher than you look. I guess I don't have the luxury of holding back."

One of the players interrupted me half way through and said "Oh no, I hate it when villains monoglue. I attack her the second she opens her mouth." Keep in mind that this was during her turn after said PC had already taken his turn.

The next day I was talking to one of the other players about how wierd it is that the other guy considers two sentances a monologue and how ironic it is that the motor mouth PC he demands half the spotlight time for his PC apparently has a standing rule about never letting a villain speak.

My friend then told that nobody likes dialogue in combat. It is bad but tolerable when they are making an in combat quip during their turn, worse when they want to do a monologue before the fight, and worst of all if they have already lost but want to give a speech before they die. Regardless of context, if an NPC is talking during a fight only the DM is having fun.


Anyone else share this oppinion? He stated it as if it was a universal truth, and I am wondering if it really is a common viewpoint that I have never noticed before. Or is this just one hack and slash gamer talking for everyone? Thoughts?

[Jophiel]

I wouldn't be bothered by what you said. I might think a whole speech was a bit cornball but, to be honest, I don't think I've ever had a GM attempt a true monologue (a full paragraph or more) prior to (or during) combat. But a sentence or two or a quip? Sure, why not.

[Resileaf]

I think your players are just uptight. I bet you they also insist on attacking NPCs while they're talking.

[RazorChain]

Actually the NPC's making quips during combat are those that the players often find most memorable. Like the guard that they fought the other day, just a normal red shirt guard, that managed to survive by making ridicilous defense rolls after losing his sword.....he always muttered "Not today, my friend, not today. This is not the day I die!" when he made his defense rolls.

I once had a player that disrupted the villains monologue resulting in TPK. The villain was going to gloat about is his doomsday device but as soon as he opened his mouth one payer was rude enough to exclaim "When he opens his mouth I shoot him in the face!"

I totally allowed him to shoot the villain in the face and after the resulting battle I just let the clock tick down and shouted "KAAABOOOOOOM!!!!! You all die"

[Knaight]

This largely seems like a genre thing - in most genres there wouldn't necessarily be much (the occasional yell for help, something like "they're over there", etc.), but if I were running a superhero campaign? At that point there's pretty much an implicit agreement that everyone is going to be downright garrulous.

[War_lord]

I just think it's daft and hammy. People don't chatter away during fights to the death. And they certainly don't monologue out loud like anime villains. Unless you're going for absurdism, don't monologue during combat.

I once had a player that disrupted the villains monologue resulting in TPK. The villain was going to gloat about is his doomsday device but as soon as he opened his mouth one payer was rude enough to exclaim "When he opens his mouth I shoot him in the face!"

I totally allowed him to shoot the villain in the face and after the resulting battle I just let the clock tick down and shouted "KAAABOOOOOOM!!!!! You all die"

You're sort of proving the premise that only GMs enjoy these tedious speeches.

[JeenLeen]

I like in-combat talk and think it adds to the game. That's as a player and GM, and those I play with seem to think the same.
That said, I can see someone being a little annoyed if it breaks versimilitude for them.

However, attacking during your example seems uncalled for and (if D&D) mechanically unsound. D&D allows for small 'free action' talking.

On the other hand, I do think it's cool to try to do a surprise attack in the middle of an actual gloat or monologue, though. But your example certainly doesn't qualify as that. (Maybe, if the DM felt generous, allow an Attack of Opportunity for them being distracted for a long-ish quip, but that didn't seem overly long.)

edit reply to post made while I made mine

I just think it's daft and hammy. People don't chatter away during fights to the death. And they certainly don't monologue out loud like anime villains. Unless you're going for absurdism, don't monologue during combat.

I think talking during combat can be a neat way to highlight the PCs' power. In one high-power game I'm in, the fact that my guy casually chats as he slaughters enemies seems to add humor for me and the GM. And it seems in-the-right-style for most fantasy games.

I would agree, if you want gritty realism (and nothing wrong with wanting that), talking during combat isn't realistic and could detract.

[Resileaf]

I just think it's daft and hammy. People don't chatter away during fights to the death. And they certainly don't monologue out loud like anime villains. Unless you're going for absurdism, don't monologue during combat.

What about warcries? Surely you can't tell me that a villain screaming "IN THE NAME OF [insert Dark God name here], I SHALL BATHE IN YOUR ENTRAILS TONIGHT!" is unrealistic.

[War_lord]

I think talking during combat can be a neat way to highlight the PCs' power. In one high-power game I'm in, the fact that my guy casually chats as he slaughters enemies seems to add humor for me and the GM. And it seems in-the-right-style for most fantasy games.

I would agree, if you want gritty realism (and nothing wrong with wanting that), talking during combat isn't realistic and could detract.

I'm more addressing DMs who will get annoyed/TPK the party via BS if the players do anything other then passively indulge their fantasy of being a Shakespearean actor. Quips are fine so long as they fit into D&D's 6 second round. It's less of a problem in GURPS because I can just point out to them that their turn is one second.

[RazorChain]

I just think it's daft and hammy. People don't chatter away during fights to the death. And they certainly don't monologue out loud like anime villains. Unless you're going for absurdism, don't monologue during combat.



You're sort of proving the premise that only GMs enjoy these tedious speeches.

No I'm only proving that one player didn't like the bad guy gloating. Most of the time my players actually enjoy having a little chit chat with the villains


Funny, you should read the Icelandic Sagas. Big burly viking guys beating each other up....and those sure talked during combat.

[War_lord]

No I'm only proving that one player didn't like the bad guy gloating. Most of the time my players actually enjoy having a little chit chat with the villains

The one time somebody objected you TPK'd the whole group. The fact that you threw a massive tantrum the one time someone did something tells me they might not actually enjoy it. Maybe they just don't want to deal with the fallout of calling you an insufferable windbag who keeps boring the tits off them with overlong speeches they get smacked for ignoring.

Funny, you should read the Icelandic Sagas. Big burly viking guys beating each other up....and those sure talked during combat.

The Saga of Grettir the Strong is one of my favorite books. Aside from this hardly being true except in exceptional cases, I doubt you break into poetry at random points in the game, despite that also being common in the Sagas. Something that makes for a great book doesn't normally translate to a good game. And a good GM leaves any ego they might have at the door, don't disrespect your players time. Posing as an author or actor is disrespecting their time.

[Talakeal]

The one time somebody objected you TPK'd the whole group. The fact that you threw a massive tantrum the one time someone did something tells me they might not actually enjoy it. Maybe they just don't want to deal with the fallout of calling you an insufferable windbag who keeps boring the tits off them with overlong speeches they get smacked for ignoring.



The Saga of Grettir the Strong is one of my favorite books. Aside from this hardly being true except in exceptional cases, I doubt you break into poetry at random points in the game, despite that also being common in the Sagas. Something that makes for a great book doesn't normally translate to a good game. And a good GM leaves any ego they might have at the door, don't disrespect your players time.

IMO attacking someone while they are talking is just stupid. Unless you have a very good reason (they are just stalling for time or they completely let their guard down) you are throwing away what could be vital information, and from a realism perspective it gives you a chance to catch your brea while the villain is literally wasting theirs.

From a realism perspective a villain explaining his evil plan to the heroes is a pretty irrational villain, but then again sane people tend not to become super villains. Imo the PCs shooting said villain while he is explaining his plot are just giving the middle finger to the DM, and at that point I can see the GM simply letting the situation play out naturally as the PCs are now missing a vital clue.

[War_lord]

IMO attacking someone while they are talking is just stupid.

If you know that they're a murderer, and they plan to attack you in the very near future, the smart thing to do is to kill that person before they can kill you. When you are in a life or death situation, your body makes a bunch of drastic chemistry changes to get you ready to respond. One of the results of that is that you're not going to be making any dramatic speeches. Even in a non-life threatening situation, most fist fights start with a sucker punch (maybe some posturing beforehand) not a soliloquy about how good one is at punching. That's a device of dramatic fiction. And it's in your players rights to care about winning fights, particularly if they aren't playing honor obsessed characters.

EDIT: And a GM seeing any player interaction with the game as a "middle finger to the DM" is bad GMing. You need to be impartial. If your players don't like chatter, don't punish them, stop chattering.

[JoeJ]

As a general statement, your friend is definitely wrong. For some players, the dialog makes the fight more interesting (which in some games, like D&D ,is badly needed because the fight itself is usually pretty boring). The real question, though, is not what players in general like, but what those particular players at your table like. And the best way to learn that is to ask them.

[Talakeal]

If you know that they're a murderer, and they plan to attack you in the very near future, the smart thing to do is to kill that person before they can kill you. When you are in a life or death situation, your body makes a bunch of drastic chemistry changes to get you ready to respond. One of the results of that is that you're not going to be making any dramatic speeches. Even in a non-life threatening situation, most fist fights start with a sucker punch (maybe some posturing beforehand) not a soliloquy about how good one is at punching. That's a device of dramatic fiction. And it's in your players rights to care about winning fights, particularly if they aren't playing honor obsessed characters.

EDIT: And a GM seeing any player interaction with the game as a "middle finger to the DM" is bad GMing. You need to be impartial. If your players don't like chatter, don't punish them, stop chattering.

Are we assuming this conversation is happening with weapons drawn at point blank range? Because Otherwise I disagree that a "sucker punch" is going to be a vital tactics.

As for your edit, would you feel also feel that if one were hosting a dinner party and one of the guests took one bite, pushed the food away and said "This isnt any good," and whipped out their phone to call for pizza delivery, only a bad host would view that as rude behavior?

The DM isn't just a slave to their players, they put a lot of effort into their games and and are also entitled to enjoy themselves just as much as any other player at the table.

It feels refreshing to be defending DMs again, it seems like the last year I have been arguing for nothing but player empowerment and against the notion of all powerful masters of the game.

[Max_Killjoy]

Quick story:

In my game this weekend the PCs were fighting a lycanthrope who was trying to hide her nature, she fought them in human form but when she started to lose decided to shift. Before she changed she said something along the lines of "You guys are tougher than you look. I guess I don't have the luxury of holding back."

One of the players interrupted me half way through and said "Oh no, I hate it when villains monoglue. I attack her the second she opens her mouth." Keep in mind that this was during her turn after said PC had already taken his turn.

The next day I was talking to one of the other players about how wierd it is that the other guy considers two sentances a monologue and how ironic it is that the motor mouth PC he demands half the spotlight time for his PC apparently has a standing rule about never letting a villain speak.

My friend then told that nobody likes dialogue in combat. It is bad but tolerable when they are making an in combat quip during their turn, worse when they want to do a monologue before the fight, and worst of all if they have already lost but want to give a speech before they die. Regardless of context, if an NPC is talking during a fight only the DM is having fun.


Anyone else share this oppinion? He stated it as if it was a universal truth, and I am wondering if it really is a common viewpoint that I have never noticed before. Or is this just one hack and slash gamer talking for everyone? Thoughts?

I wonder what would happen if the motormouth PC was attacked mid-sentence every time they opened their mouth in combat.

[Talakeal]

I wonder what would happen if the motormouth PC was attacked mid-sentence every time they opened their mouth in combat.

Afaict he seems to think that combat is combat and RP is RP and never the twain shall meet. Although in truth I suspect it ir probably just because he is looking for an excuse to be an attention whore.

[Kaptin Keen]

Thoughts?

My thoughts? I'd tell them "You get to have fun - I get to have fun."

And that would be that. Everyone at the table get's to play the game - no one is there just to cater to the others.

[Maelynn]

I would delicately point out that it's not their turn, so they can't do anything 'as soon as she opens her mouth'. Then I'd proceed to finish what I was going to say. And after that, during their own turn, they can decide to use it however they wish. Because that's what their turn is for.

While I concur that not every player appreciates combat banter, it's absolutely not something that 'nobody likes'. Had you given an entire monologue then yes, I can understand, but two sentences is by no means the monologue they make it out to be.

[War_lord]

As for your edit, would you feel also feel that if one were hosting a dinner party and one of the guests took one bite, pushed the food away and said "This isnt any good," and whipped out their phone to call for pizza delivery, only a bad host would view that as rude behavior?

The DM isn't just a slave to their players, they put a lot of effort into their games and and are also entitled to enjoy themselves just as much as any other player at the table.

There's at least four players and one GM, it behoves me to actually listen to my players. The first thing I ask after every session is what can I do better next time, what did they like and what did they not like. (didn't you witness this before you vanished?) Even so, if I get the sense that my players didn't like something, even if they didn't say anything verbally, I change things for next time. I'm entertained by them being entertained.

If they told you they hated the potatoes, why insist on serving the potatoes, do you just like being obstinate?

Then again, even outside of gaming I'm the kind of person who is very fortright about my opinions, and expects the same back in return. If a player, I'll tell the GM the game sucks, if a GM, I'll listen to someone when they tell me the game sucks.

I would delicately point out that it's not their turn, so they can't do anything 'as soon as she opens her mouth'. Then I'd proceed to finish what I was going to say. And after that, during their own turn, they can decide to use it however they wish. Because that's what their turn is for.

To which I'd respond that they just talked for over six seconds, while moving back and forth thus they spent their actions.

[Thrudd]

If the dialogue fits within the time constraints of a normal combat turn, I don't know why anyone would complain. As long as it isn't like you're pausing the action to give a monologue - you're just making a quip as you roll the dice - the players are just overreacting. They must be traumatized by a previous GM that monologued in an immersion-breaking way. Saying "grr, you guys are tough" as you make an attack is not unbelievable or pausing the action. People don't always remain silent during combat, there is shouting and yelling, trash talking/intimidation and people trying to communicate with their allies. There's no reason not to portray that as long as the action is still flowing quickly.

[zlefin]

I have no problem with dialog during combat, and I'd probably moderately enjoy it on average. (subject of course to genre expectations and the level of grittiness being used).

i'd say the DM is entitled to do short quips if they enjoy it ofc, since they're doing thje work, and short quips are something that happens alot anyways.

[Maelynn]

To which I'd respond that they just talked for over six seconds, while moving back and forth thus they spent their actions.

Well, of course there's no way for me to know how slow you talk, but I don't need over 6 seconds to utter the 2 lines the OP stated.

[JoeJ]

To which I'd respond that they just talked for over six seconds, while moving back and forth thus they spent their actions.

And their reply is, "The DM decides how long things take. I'll let you know when it's your turn again."

[War_lord]

Well, of course there's no way for me to know how slow you talk, but I don't need over 6 seconds to utter the 2 lines the OP stated.

Sure, if you assume everyone else is literally frozen in place for six seconds waiting for their "go" and not dueling back and forth.

[War_lord]

And their reply is, "The DM decides how long things take. I'll let you know when it's your turn again."

"A round represents about six seconds in the game world" -PHB, 189

So no, you can't justify a monologue in combat as anything other then a GM attitude problem.

[JoeJ]

"A round represents about six seconds in the game world" -PHB, 189

So no, you can't justify a monologue in combat as anything other then a GM attitude problem.

Six seconds is more than enough time for a brief statement. And arguing with the GM during combat is not being respectful to the other players. The GM made a decision, the game continues. Further discussion should be tabled until after the game.

I get that you don't like NPCs to talk in the middle of combat, but you're not the only player at the table.

[War_lord]

Six seconds is more than enough time for a brief statement. And arguing with the GM during combat is not being respectful to the other players. The GM made a decision, the game continues. Further discussion should be tabled until after the game.

I get that you don't like NPCs to talk in the middle of combat, but you're not the only player at the table.

The first time it happens, I confront them after the game. If they don't agree to cut it out, or it slips in again after they do, I'm out. That's my rule for dealing with this kind of stuff.

[Mr Beer]

I find a long speech insufferable but a short speech is fine and expected from a lot of BBEGs. Also in combat quips are fine, from enemies and PCs.

My games, powerful enemies generally explicitly have the power to make a short speech pre combat, which the players cannot interrupt. The players also have the same power, should they wish to exercise it.

[icefractal]

Personally, I like some banter in combat, and so do a number of other gamers I know.

But aside from that, telling the GM how they're allowed to RP the NPCs is about as acceptable as the GM dictating how PCs can be RPed - it almost never is.

And most people who complain about too much talking for six seconds shouldn't throw stones. It's a rare player who never takes more than six seconds discussing tactics.