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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    My big pet theory was I expected Book Six would involve the Order being drawn into/trapped in Snarlworld, where we'd learn all about the thing itself. There were enough little suggestions of it that I thought it was properly foreshadowed and obvious.

    One of my little theories was I was positive Elan was going to end up using Tarquin's whip. They showed V keeping it, and I thought Elan would actually make sense using a nonlethal weapon that allowed him to swing into situations with style. But it's never been seen again, so I guess not.

    I also figured that Belkar's big redemption would not involve any sort of apologies or statements so much as him just making some huge, sacrificial gesture. While that's still on the table, he did just make his first apology ever, so I guess I'm wrong again.

    EDIT: It's probably not true, but I'm still holding out hope about my theory that Julia Greenhilt is Redcloak's niece. I know it's crazy but I do have some evidence.
    Last edited by jidasfire; 2019-01-16 at 03:03 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    EDIT: It's probably not true, but I'm still holding out hope about my theory that Julia Greenhilt is Redcloak's niece. I know it's crazy but I do have some evidence.
    Okay, I'll bite. Especially since Redcloak's niece would be, what, 40? And Julia is 17.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Okay, I'll bite. Especially since Redcloak's niece would be, what, 40? And Julia is 17.
    40? She was a child "three years ago".
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-01-16 at 03:56 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    40? She was child "three years ago".
    Time to jump on this bandwagon, you say?
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    40? She was a child "three years ago".
    Whoops, I got the niece confused with the sister.

    Either way, this should be fun.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Whoops, I got the niece confused with the sister.

    Either way, this should be fun.
    In that case, I love that you went with "she's too old" rather than:
    Spoiler: Start Of Darkness
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    She was killed in infancy by a paladin and her corpse abandonned on the battlefield.


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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Given that goblins age significantly faster than humans, Redcloak's niece would be the right age to be Julia, then, yes...

    (She's not Julia. Roy would know if Julia had been adopted three years ago.)
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Given that goblins age significantly faster than humans, Redcloak's niece would be the right age to be Julia, then, yes...

    (She's not Julia. Roy would know if Julia had been adopted three years ago.)
    Unless, of course, his dad was a master of illusion! It's just silly enough to make me a fan.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    "Make your son think he's had a sister for years" would be Enchantment, not Illusion.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    "Make your son think he's had a sister for years" would be Enchantment, not Illusion.
    Maybe he cast an illusion of competence on himself.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe he cast an illusion of competence on himself.
    The allusion to illusion is delusion.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Unless, of course, his dad was a master of illusion! It's just silly enough to make me a fan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    "Make your son think he's had a sister for years" would be Enchantment, not Illusion.
    Yes but making your son believes he has a sister for years is not!
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The allusion to illusion is delusion.
    Well, my delusion was met with derision.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Well, my delusion was met with derision.
    Maybe if you had a theory about Julia being a simulacrum, the mission would lack derision from the decision and the omission.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Maybe if you had a theory about Julia being a simulacrum, the mission would lack derision from the decision and the omission.
    The admission of such an emission would be proof of cognition, which is my ambition but not my condition.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    hroĢila's Avatar

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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Eugene created an illusion entirely to mess with Roy, then 3 years ago he came across Redcloak's niece and he decided she could take the place of the illusion. No cracks in this theory.
    ungelic is us

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Given that goblins age significantly faster than humans, Redcloak's niece would be the right age to be Julia, then, yes...
    I bet Redcloakís niece is Hilgya.

    That makes Durkon into Redcloakís half sister, I think.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    Rereading SOD-- Xykon arrives at the goblin village three years before the main comic starts, but Right-Eye discloses that he smuggled his daughter to safety only at the battle outside Dorukan's dungeon, six months before the events of the comic. So it's not clear when exactly it happened... but given that Eugene died three years before the events of the comic, it would be particularly something if he managed this illusion / switch.
    Last edited by Ruck; 2019-01-16 at 06:48 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Spoiler: Regarding SOD
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    Xykon arrives at the goblin village three years before the main comic starts.... but given that Eugene died three years before the events of the comic....
    So what you're saying is everything lines up perfectly!
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Like others here, I can think of things I thought wouldn't happen but didn't. I didn't think Hilgya would show up again. Or that Malack would turn out to be a vampire. But my most embarrassing doubt is my belief that the crayon image of Sapphire Guard paladins killing a goblin in a red cloak didn't mean anything. I'm honestly not sure how I arrived at that conclusion. Maybe forum speculation had turned me too sceptical.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Whoops, guess I started a little fire there. My evidence for Julia being Redcloak's niece was mainly that Right-Eye said he'd gotten his daughter away to the humans, and seeing as the only human he really knew was Eugene Greenhilt, I thought that fit. Plus, given the fact that Eugene probably had a lot of guilt over the accident that took Eric Greenhilt's life, maybe he used some magic to trick his everyone, herself included, into thinking Julia was human.

    Anyway, I realize the timing doesn't work perfectly and there are a number of logistical problems with it, so it's almost certainly not true. But you know, I like to think I put more thought into my half-baked theories than some others.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    He had one conversation with Eugene, in which Eugene refused to do what he wanted. I wouldn't bet anything I wasn't prepared to lose that he didn't know other humans better than that, even if they never appeared on-panel.

    While I'm not going to dig out Start of Darkness and check, I also think Redcloak's brother's indication of who was raising his niece was a lot less definite than "she's being raised by this human I know."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    While I'm not going to dig out Start of Darkness and check, I also think Redcloak's brother's indication of who was raising his niece was a lot less definite than "she's being raised by this human I know."
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
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    "She's out there being raised by humans--or worse!--because of that madman..."

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Five gold on that not happening. Halfling gonna need a halfcoffin.
    If anyone wants to take Peelee up on that bet, I'll bet five gold too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    Which is why him becoming a vampire wouldn't have actually satisfied it anyway. Or not the spirit of the prophecy, anyway.
    Don't you get it? Obviously, the prophecies about Belkar's death are the kind that are fulfilled literally, denying their obvious interpretation! Despite the fact that every other question the Oracle answered (except Roy's first question and arguably V's) was given a straightforward answer which provided a clear, accurate answer to the question they asked.
    Yeah, I think my five gold's safe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    2) How is Team Evil finding the Gate and getting ready for the ritual a plot twist?
    3) I don't see what the point of that would be either?
    2. Probably due to a combination of the MitD's interference and Team Evil often being as dysfunctional as the Order.
    3. I dunno, giving Tarquin a clear conclusion to a story arc which was properly concluded by denying him closure?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    Iím still holding out hope for a end-of-book cliffhanger!
    Nah, Trigak's return seems more like sequel bait material.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe he cast an illusion of competence on himself.
    There are some areas that Eugene Greenhilt could conceivably enchant himself to look competent in, but the spell slots required to make himself look competent in anything related to fatherhood could be used more effectively in wiping Xykon off the face of the material plane.


    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    Whoops, guess I started a little fire there. My evidence for Julia being Redcloak's niece was mainly that Right-Eye said he'd gotten his daughter away to the humans, and seeing as the only human he really knew was Eugene Greenhilt, I thought that fit. Plus, given the fact that Eugene probably had a lot of guilt over the accident that took Eric Greenhilt's life, maybe he used some magic to trick his everyone, herself included, into thinking Julia was human.

    Anyway, I realize the timing doesn't work perfectly and there are a number of logistical problems with it, so it's almost certainly not true. But you know, I like to think I put more thought into my half-baked theories than some others.
    I'll grant that you put far more thought into it than expected...but I think Right-Eye knows better than to leave his daughter with a human who was initially confused as to why anyone would care about the plight of a bunch of goblins. Unless that human went through some serious character development, but this is Eugene Greenhilt we're talking about.


    Anyways...I think when I was in middle school, I expected some remnant of the Eastern Gods to come up at some point? I don't remember the details, or any other plot twists I expected.
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    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
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    "She's out there being raised by humans--or worse!--because of that madman..."
    Alright, well now that just confirms that Redcloak's niece grew up as a cleric in dwarven lands and is totally going to be pivotal to Durkon swaying him.
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didnít)

    Quote Originally Posted by Havelocke View Post
    I have thought for some time now, that Belkar will be going to that other world in the Snarl. Since he is "not long for this world". Not sure if he dies and gets reborn there...but that would be pretty cool.

    Nice thought.

    I seem to remember that the Giant lamented that there would be no strips of Belkar in his after life. "Another bit of comedy gold wasted."

    It was in one of the commentary sections. Then he went on to say no matter what happens the comic will continue to follow Belkar.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    I mean, it will, in that the implication of the prophecy isn't just that Belkar will die, but that he will also be permanently removed from the story.

    Which is why him becoming a vampire wouldn't have actually satisfied it anyway. Or not the spirit of the prophecy, anyway.
    I see it the other way. Technical correctness by the specific wording is the spirit of the Oracle's prophecies. That's why answers like "in his throne room" suffice, or the weird self-fulfilling prophecy about Belkar killing the Oracle (would Belkar still have killed him if his original answer had been "no"?). Specifying "draw his last breath", instead of saying dying... the spirit of that is to be as exact as possible. There's definitely going to be a twist there.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I see it the other way. Technical correctness by the specific wording is the spirit of the Oracle's prophecies. That's why answers like "in his throne room" suffice, or the weird self-fulfilling prophecy about Belkar killing the Oracle (would Belkar still have killed him if his original answer had been "no"?). Specifying "draw his last breath", instead of saying dying... the spirit of that is to be as exact as possible. There's definitely going to be a twist there.
    It's not just "draw his last breath", it's "Draw his last breath ever". He insisted on that to mean that Belkar will die for good and will not be resurrected in any circumstances.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    It's not just "draw his last breath", it's "Draw his last breath ever". He insisted on that to mean that Belkar will die for good and will not be resurrected in any circumstances.
    This leads me to "(1) What creature does not breath, or does not need to breath, and (2) who will polymorph (or baleful polymorph) Belkar into that?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    This leads me to "(1) What creature does not breath, or does not need to breath, and (2) who will polymorph (or baleful polymorph) Belkar into that?"
    Any twist should go beyond simply being polymorphed into something else, because The Oracle also said that Belkar "isn't long for this world"
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