Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didn’t)

[KorvinStarmast]

Any twist should go beyond simply being polymorphed into something else, because The Oracle also said that Belkar "isn't long for this world"

OK.
"(1) What creature does not breath, or does not need to breath, and (2) who will polymorph (or baleful polymorph) Belkar into that and then throw him through the gate an into the water world?"

(Does Belkar end his life as a fish? Does this create problems when Mr Scruffy gets hungry? Find out next week in episode LVII .... )

[Ruck]

Which creature doesn't breathe, doesn't live in this world, doesn't eat birthday cake, and needn't bother saving for retirement?

[Resileaf]

Dead people.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I see it the other way. Technical correctness by the specific wording is the spirit of the Oracle's prophecies. That's why answers like "in his throne room" suffice, or the weird self-fulfilling prophecy about Belkar killing the Oracle (would Belkar still have killed him if his original answer had been "no"?). Specifying "draw his last breath", instead of saying dying... the spirit of that is to be as exact as possible. There's definitely going to be a twist there.

Let's go over the Oracle's other known prophecies in estimated chronological order:

1. "You're going to have a heart attack right after I finish saying you're going to have a heart attack." Pretty straightforward, I'd say.
2. "Where is Xykon?" "In his throne room." The Oracle wasn't "technically correct but violating the spirit of the question," he was "technically correct by being too literal".
3. Probably something like "Alright, wise guy, where's Xykon's throne room?" Probably something like "In Dorukon's Dungeon in the Redmountain Hills." We don't know exactly what the Oracle said, but it was apparently straightforward and intuitive enough to get the Order there without significant issue.
4. "How will I finally be returnin' ta me beloved dwarven homelands?" "Posthumously." There's a good argument that this qualifies as one of those violating-the-spirit prophecies, both because Durkon was undead instead of plain dead and since Durkon came back to life. Still, Durkon absolutely died before returning home.
5. "How will I achieve complete and total ultimate arcane power?" "By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons." A lot of people say this shouldn't count, or that it would count as a tricky prophecy, but I disagree. The only real "trick" to this prophecy is who V was talking to.
6. "Bfqe zqp M rt et fjketfj wi kljjzf?" ["What can I do to restore my speech?"] "When the gift horse comes calling, don't look it in the mouth." This is vague, but otherwise straightforward; Haley knew exactly what the Oracle was talking about when it came up.
7. "Will this story have a happy ending?" "Yes—for you, at least." It'll be hard to see how this plays out before the end of the actual story, but it's on track to have a happy ending for most of the cast and more than a few motes of tragedy for others.
8. "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?" "Yes". Another case of "The oracle was being too literal," not "The oracle was trying to trick his customer". That came later, when he was trying to bargain for his life.
9. "There are two magical gates that Xykon might try to control next: Girard's Gate, on the western continent, or Kraagor's Gate, near the northern polar cap. If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?" "That, uh... that's your question? ... Fine. But I want it on the record that it is not my fault if the plot sequence gets screwed up. Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first." This is the single biggest strike against any "The Oracle likes to give tricksy prophecies" argument. He was actively trying to give Roy the information he actually wanted.
10. "Caw caw caw caw, caw caw caw?" [Probably something about V remembering Blackwing] "Try ginko bilboa." So far as can be told, Blackwing never acted on this prophecy, making it hard to judge its clarity.
11. Probably something like "Is my wife cheating on me?" "Yes, and the other man is your animal companion." Again, pretty straightforward.

Eleven other prophecies, two of them kinda tricksy, three which were only "tricksy" because the asker asked the wrong question—and in two of those cases, the askers caught on immediately because the Oracle was not being subtle about his overly-literalness.
Not to mention that any attempt at making Belkar technically not take any breaths after the end of the year without "being removed from the story" is hampered by literally everything else the Oracle has said on the subject (assuming that Vampire Belkar would celebrate his birthday and could invest and whatnot).

Not to mention that "Belkar can't be removed from the story" is, to put it bluntly, one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen, and it's only gotten stupider as the comic's gone on. This is for two reasons: The increasing number of characters who are being removed from the story, and the decreasing number of opportunities for Belkar to die before the story was over. You know, in case anyone who's listened to Elan couldn't guess that Belkar was almost certainly going to die in the most dramatic part of the story—ie, at the climax, and probably after his redemption. Belkar's probably going to spend the epilogue split between getting buried and trying to break into Lord Shojo's corner of the afterlife (assuming he doesn't go the route of Kraagor), and I think he'd be happy with that.

[hroþila]

Let's go over the Oracle's other known prophecies in estimated chronological order:

Great job. There's also mama black dragon, who obviously got a clear enough answer that she found V (and their family) without much of an issue.

[Fyraltari]

You forgot
12 (between 10 and 11, chronologically) : "Who killed my son?" "Vaarsuvuius the elf Wizard."

Also I don't think Blackwing's question had anything to do about V.

I agree with the rest of your post, though.

EDIT: Evidence that I am no Oracle provided by hroþila.

[Ruck]

Dead people.

I'm on the record as being fully confident Belkar will actually just die before the end of the comic. I am, however, still amused by the lengths some people will go to craft an alternate explanation for the prophecy. Especially so when that explanation is based in "the Oracle is tricky in his prophecies!", something that, as GreatWyrmGold has just graciously outlined for us, isn't true at all.

[Peelee]

I see it the other way. Technical correctness by the specific wording is the spirit of the Oracle's prophecies. That's why answers like "in his throne room" suffice, or the weird self-fulfilling prophecy about Belkar killing the Oracle (would Belkar still have killed him if his original answer had been "no"?). Specifying "draw his last breath", instead of saying dying... the spirit of that is to be as exact as possible. There's definitely going to be a twist there.

Yes, if you ignore all the other prophecies about Belkar's death, then it seems like he may not die. Why, if we ignore the "draw last breath ever" one as well, it's even less likely!

"Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?" "Yes". Another case of "The oracle was being too literal," not "The oracle was trying to trick his customer". That came later, when he was trying to bargain for his life.

That wasn't even bring too literal. Belkar asked if he would kill any of a number of people on his list. He did (the Oracle). That it hadn't happened by the time Belkar expected is Belkar's own fault. That's as straightforward as you can get, the Oracle's equivocation aside.

[Yendor]

He had one conversation with Eugene, in which Eugene refused to do what he wanted. I wouldn't bet anything I wasn't prepared to lose that he didn't know other humans better than that, even if they never appeared on-panel.

Spoiler

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Given that Right-eye's family was able to regularly visit a human-run circus without consequence, it's a safe bet that he knew where to find a human that was a better option than keeping his daughter in Xykon's vicinity.

EDIT: Hey! Maybe she actually joined the circus!

Let's go over the Oracle's other known prophecies in estimated chronological order:

One more from SoD:

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Eugene: Who is the sorceror that killed my master, Fyron Pucebuckle? Oracle: He is called, "Xykon". Perfectly straightforward.

I'd also say that the people he gives the least helpful answers to are the ones he has specific reason not to like: Roy, Durkon, Belkar, and Vaarsuvius.

[Dion]

Dead people.

Also, Crab People.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also, Crab People.

Crabs breathe.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

That's why answers like "in his throne room" suffice, or the weird self-fulfilling prophecy about Belkar killing the Oracle (would Belkar still have killed him if his original answer had been "no"?).

This seems to be a rhetorical question to which the expected answer is "no, of course not," and yet my answer is, "yes, of course." The Oracle was dead from the second Belkar came back into the Sunken Valley without Roy there to restrain him; Belkar hated kobolds even more than he hated everything else that lives, and not being a kobold did nothing to save Solt Lorkyurg, plus if the Oracle had told him "no" he would have had "he told me something I didn't want to hear! " as a reason for murder.

[D.One]

I'm on the record as being fully confident Belkar will actually just die before the end of the comic. I am, however, still amused by the lengths some people will go to craft an alternate explanation for the prophecy. Especially so when that explanation is based in "the Oracle is tricky in his prophecies!", something that, as GreatWyrmGold has just graciously outlined for us, isn't true at all.

Agreed. I think Belkar will die, and the only twist/surprise will be how he dies, in order to prevent Raise/Ressurection.

[Joerg]

Regarding the original question: I expected Tarquin to destroy the gate. Didn't happen, though at least he said he would have afterwards.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also I don't think Blackwing's question had anything to do about V.

The Oracle mentioned ginko bilboa, which is presumably related to ginko balboa, which is often suggested as a memory aid. So Blackwing's question presumably had something to do with memory, and V's ability to remember their familiar is the memory-related thing that is closest to Blackwing.

This seems to be a rhetorical question to which the expected answer is "no, of course not," and yet my answer is, "yes, of course." The Oracle was dead from the second Belkar came back into the Sunken Valley without Roy there to restrain him; Belkar hated kobolds even more than he hated everything else that lives, and not being a kobold did nothing to save Solt Lorkyurg, plus if the Oracle had told him "no" he would have had "he told me something I didn't want to hear! " as a reason for murder.

The bigger problem is that the Oracle cares very much about professional ethics. He doesn't give false prophecies, and Belkar was going to kill the Oracle. Only if events had played out differently (say, if Belkar took the boots of elvenkind and couldn't goad Roy into attacking Xykon on his dragon, negating any need for the Order to see the Oracle again), the Oracle would have said "no"* and Belkar wouldn't have killed him. It's that simple.

*Assuming that Belkar didn't kill V or Windstriker in this weirdo timeline.

Agreed. I think Belkar will die, and the only twist/surprise will be how he dies, in order to prevent Raise/Ressurection.

Plot twist: The Order discovers that nobody really wants to raise Belkar.
More realistic plot twist: The Order runs out of diamonds, and by the time they get more Belkar's settled into his afterlife.

[Peelee]

Plot twist: The Order discovers that nobody really wants to raise Belkar.
More realistic plot twist: The Order runs out of diamonds, and by the time they get more Belkar's settled into his afterlife.

Yet another plot twist: his corpse gets eaten or left behind.

[Fyraltari]

The Oracle mentioned ginko bilboa, which is presumably related to ginko balboa, which is often suggested as a memory aid. So Blackwing's question presumably had something to do with memory, and V's ability to remember their familiar is the memory-related thing that is closest to Blackwing.

Do you mean ginko biloba? Because I can't find anything about ginko balboa and that's a more plausible typo.

I didn't know ginko biloba was believed to have anything to do with memory (although that's apparently unproven), so I just assumed Blackwing asked what's the best food he was ever going to eat or something along those line. However, I admit the thought that Blackwing was secretly dropping ginko nuts in V's plates the whole time is hilarious.

I don't really get the impression that Blackwing was trying to mend their relationship, though

[Ruck]

"gingko biloba" is the spelling; "gingko bilboa" in the comic is presumably a typo. I'm not certain that Blackwing asked about how to get Vaarsuvius to remember him, but ginkgo biloba is touted as a memory aid, so it makes sense that it would be the case.

[Peelee]

Do you mean ginko biloba? Because I can't find anything about ginko balboa and that's a more plausible typo.

Ginkgo Balboa is when Rocky punches you until you remember things. It's a lot of punching.

[Fyraltari]

Ginkgo Balboa is when Rocky punches you until you remember things. It's a lot of punching.

That sounds like "advanced interrogation techniques" really.

[Peelee]

That sounds like "advanced interrogation techniques" really.

Oh, the jokes that could be made here...

[Jasdoif]

Oh, the jokes that could be made here...

The Emperor putting him in the Inquisitorious, because the high ground was rocky?

[Fyraltari]

The Emperor putting him in the Inquisitorious, because the high ground was rocky?

I like Star Wars as much as the next geek but how did it get into this?

[Peelee]

I like Star Wars as much as the next geek but how did it get into this?

The second part of your statement leads me to doubt the first part.

[Jasdoif]

I like Star Wars as much as the next geek but how did it get into this?

Mostly the official role of Inquisitors as interrogation specialists (a role I'm not 100% sure they've retained in the new canon), and how I once described them as using "enhanced interrogation techniques" without knowing that phrase had a more specific meaning in some circles.

Or do you mean how the showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith took place on Mustafar, a volcanic world; so when Obi-Wan said he had the high ground, the ground under his feet was rocky?

[KorvinStarmast]

Which creature doesn't breathe, doesn't live in this world, doesn't eat birthday cake, and needn't bother saving for retirement?

If Belkar the Fish gets tossed through the portal into the next world ...
Fish can't make birthday cake underwater, I don't think, but they can eat some if you drop cake/crumbs into a pond. But if that world in the rift is covered in water, there is no land for growing grain/wheat, hence no flour, hence no birthday cake.
(Yeah, I know, it's a reach)

Fish: what retirement plan? Dinner for a bigger fish, right?

Belkar: was his zoological sign Pisces?

It seems to boil down to a technicality: fish and breathing.
Do fish breath? Not quite they same way Belkar the halfling does, but they certainly extract oxygen from the water, so if that's breathing then the hypothesis is dead in the water.

[Fyraltari]

The second part of your statement leads me to doubt the first part.

You wound me.
Please press.

Mostly the official role of Inquisitors as interrogation specialists (a role I'm not 100% sure they've retained in the new canon)*, and how I once described them as using "enhanced interrogation techniques" without knowing that phrase had a more specific meaning in some circles.

Okay. There's a decent chance that this is no coincidence all things considered.

Or do you mean how the showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith took place on Mustafar, a volcanic world; so when Obi-Wan said he had the high ground, the ground under his feet was rocky?

No, that I got.
*Pretty sure torturing fools is on the job description of every Imp above captain.

[D.One]

Mostly the official role of Inquisitors as interrogation specialists (a role I'm not 100% sure they've retained in the new canon), and how I once described them as using "enhanced interrogation techniques" without knowing that phrase had a more specific meaning in some circles.

Or do you mean how the showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith took place on Mustafar, a volcanic world; so when Obi-Wan said he had the high ground, the ground under his feet was rocky?

Anakin went all Gonna Fly Now, but Obi Wan Rose Up to the Challenge of His Rival and Anakin got a Burning Heart (among other parts of his body)...

[Peelee]

You wound me.

I read that in HK-47's voice.

[jidasfire]

I also had a theory that toward the end of the last book, we'd see Thog wake up from under the pile of rocks Roy left him in, and he'd find Sir Scraggly, the puppy he's always wanted, and they'd wander out of the story to have adventures and ice cream. It's still not impossible, but the story's moved on to the point that it's pretty unlikely.