Plot twists you thought would happen (but totally didn’t)

[Peelee]

Speaking of Red's niece, does anyone know what happened to his father? He isn't in the opening of Start Of Darkness even though Redcloak's paternal uncle and mother are and is never mentionned as far as I remember. Granted he should be dead of old age by now but that's peculiar.

Speaking as Redcloak's niece, Reddy's father's untimely natural death spurred Reddie to become a Cleric.

[Fyraltari]

Speaking as Redcloak's niece

Wait, what?

Reddy's father's untimely natural death spurred Reddie to become a Cleric.

Is that your headcanon or do you have a source?

[Peelee]

Wait, what?

Is that your headcanon or do you have a source?

I thought the first part of my sentence would shed light on the second part. Or, to more directly answer, neither. I'm just joking.

[Fyraltari]

I thought the first part of my sentence would shed light on the second part. Or, to more directly answer, neither. I'm just joking.

I had assumed that was a typo. Apologies.

[Kish]

Undead are actually immune to illusions.

Immune to mind-affecting effects, including patterns (illusions that have a specific effect on those who see them) and phantasms (illusions that exist solely in the mind of the victim, which most people can't see). Not at all the same thing. Not anything that would matter to a figment, like Silent Image.

[Resileaf]

Immune to mind-affecting effects, including patterns (illusions that have a specific effect on those who see them) and phantasms (illusions that exist solely in the mind of the victim, which most people can't see). Not at all the same thing. Not anything that would matter to a figment, like Silent Image.

Malack was immune to the wall illusion that Elan conjured up in Girard's pyramid.

Edit: Nevermind, I just remembered he cast true seeing a few seconds earlier.

[Ruck]

Malack was immune to the wall illusion that Elan conjured up in Girard's pyramid.

Edit: Nevermind, I just remembered he cast true seeing a few seconds earlier.

Yeah, and to add to that, Vampire!Durkon pointedly did not see through the wall illusion.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Speaking of Red's niece, does anyone know what happened to his father? He isn't in the opening of Start Of Darkness even though Redcloak's paternal uncle and mother are and is never mentionned as far as I remember. Granted he should be dead of old age by now but that's peculiar.

Considering the casualties in the rest of that chapter...I'm guessing he didn't live to see Redcloak enter the clergy.

[Resileaf]

Yeah, and to add to that, Vampire!Durkon pointedly did not see through the wall illusion.

I had assumed he had just failed his spot check. >_>

[Kish]

Edit: Nevermind, I just remembered he cast true seeing a few seconds earlier.

A spell which an undead cleric would never have a reason to prepare, if undead were immune to illusions.

[Peelee]

Invisibility is an illusion spell, as well.

[Resileaf]

A spell which an undead cleric would never have a reason to prepare, if undead were immune to illusions.

Yes, I get it, you don't have to repeat it. :P

[hamishspence]

Undead are immune to some illusions - mind-affecting ones (phantasms, patterns) but not all.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...s.htm#illusion

Invisibility is a glamer "deceive the senses" not "deceive the mind" - so it works.

[Resileaf]

I believe I am getting quite intimately familiar with those rules by now.

[Snails]

After Malack had tea with Durkon, I predicted Malack was secretly an (1) evil (2) vampire that would (3) vamp Belkar someday.

That is about as beautiful a near miss as it gets, as Malack literally had his fangs in Belk's neck at one point.

Whether Malack was evil or not was a fun controversy, as some agreed and some disagreed -- the death is not necessarily evil argument seemed really worked its magic on some Readers. (Hats off to the Giant!)

Whether Malack was a vampire, I was a lone voice against many on that one.

Whether Belkar would be vamped, some saw a degree of appeal based on the prophecy, but Malack being a vampire was just a guess too far.

[Fyraltari]

After Malack had tea with Durkon, I predicted Malack was secretly an (1) evil (2) vampire that would (3) vamp Belkar someday.

That is about as beautiful a near miss as it gets, as Malack literally had his fangs in Belk's neck at one point.

Whether Malack was evil or not was a fun controversy, as some agreed and some disagreed -- the death is not necessarily evil argument seemed really worked its magic on some Readers. (Hats off to the Giant!)

I don't think anyone doubted Malack was evil after reading his plans for the future of the Western Continent.

[Peelee]

I don't think anyone doubted Malacck was evil after reading his plans for the future of the Western Continent.

Oh sweet summer child.

[Ruck]

I believe I am getting quite intimately familiar with those rules by now.

If you'd like, I can invite you to a two-week seminar I'm holding called "Illusions and Undead: Make D&D 3.5 Work For YOU."

[Peelee]

If you'd like, I can invite you to a two-week seminar I'm holding called "Illusions and Undead: Make D&D 3.5 Work For YOU."

I'm a guest speaker in that seminar! I teach a small class called "The Importance of Silence While Invisible (And Why Wizards Can't Do Everything)."

[Resileaf]

I'm a guest speaker in that seminar! I teach a small class called "The Importance of Silence While Invisible (And Why Wizards Can't Do Everything)."

Y'know, I'd watch that seminar just to have a better idea of how to counter wizard PCs more reliably.

[zimmerwald1915]

If you'd like, I can invite you to a two-week seminar I'm holding called "Illusions and Undead: Make D&D 3.5 Work For YOU."

Do you offer time-shares on vampire coffins?

Y'know, I'd watch that seminar just to have a better idea of how to counter wizard PCs more reliably.

Having a +8 racial bonus to Listen checks helps.

[Snails]

I don't think anyone doubted Malack was evil after reading his plans for the future of the Western Continent.

I wish that were the case. My recollection is there were a number of hangers on with the position in the neighborhood of: "I still think Malack may be LN, since no one can prove that Malack is evil based on things like ideas about the future. After all, he only eats the guilty, and that seems like argument that is LN enough to me."

But as predictions go, timing matters. Mine was made immediately after 737: Comparative Mythology. Malack's reveal about his plans to honor Nergal is quite a ways later.

[Fyraltari]

Y'know, I'd watch that seminar just to have a better idea of how to counter wizard PCs more reliably.

A wizard might command the forces of reality itself, but to the dagger he doesn't see coming a wizard is just a nerd in fancy clothings.

[zimmerwald1915]

A wizard might command the forces of reality itself, but to the dagger he doesn't see coming a wizard is just a nerd in fancy clothings.

Rather, a simulacrum or astral projection or ice assassin of a nerd in fancy clothing. Which contingent-teleports away the moment it is touched by a dagger.

[Peelee]

Rather, a simulacrum or astral projection or ice assassin of a nerd in fancy clothing. Which contingent-teleports away the moment it is touched by a dagger.

One of my favorite lines in the comic:

What would happen if we turned magic off? Fascinating. It appears you cease to be a mighty wizard and become a fragile pointy-eared monkey. While I? I am still a dragon.

[Fyraltari]

Rather, a simulacrum or astral projection or ice assassin of a nerd in fancy clothing. Which contingent-teleports away the moment it is touched by a dagger.

Did you miss the "didn't see coming" part? The trick to defeating superior firepower is attacking an unsuspecting ennemy.

Take it from a professional.
Obviously most of this does not apply to D&D wizards, but some does.

[Snails]

Y'know, I'd watch that seminar just to have a better idea of how to counter wizard PCs more reliably.

As someone who has played PC spellcasters, you do not need to counter them in the most direct sense. If you can disrupt their Line of Sight, they cannot efficiently lay down their AoE spells without stepping forward where they might get hit. Of course, they can choose to hang back in a place of safety, but that means either using their spells slots less efficiently and/or watching their buddies having fun carving up the enemy (or perhaps hearing their cries for help as they get beaten while the wizard picks his nose).

Walls and fogs and web and darkness do not stop the PCs in general or the wizard in particular. But they do slow down the wizard in an important way for a round or two, and it can be accomplished with low level spells. And, of course, the objective of the DM is not to stop PCs from their preferred hyper-optimized modes of fighting, but to have options that can push individual PCs out of their comfort zone for some combats, to force them to adjust tactics on the fly.

[Ruck]

Do you offer time-shares on vampire coffins?

We tried it once, but the vampires were so possessive.

[GreatWyrmGold]

After Malack had tea with Durkon, I predicted Malack was secretly an (1) evil (2) vampire that would (3) vamp Belkar someday.

That is about as beautiful a near miss as it gets, as Malack literally had his fangs in Belk's neck at one point.

I'd like to think that was an intentional joke at the expense of everyone who desperately wants Belkar to live through the prophecy that foretold his death.

One of my favorite lines in the comic:

What would happen if we turned magic off? Fascinating. It appears you cease to be a mighty wizard and become a fragile pointy-eared monkey. While I? I am still a dragon.

I've never been so unlucky as to have a family member skinned and turned into armor (one of the benefits of having shiny scales), but I still feel that was an awesome moment.

[Chaosrex]

In Chapter 465

When Tsukiko says that she's gonna raise a Powerfull undead, that'll be mean, strong and have Black and Red armor.
Then passes next the PSycho Fallen paladin Miko corpse.

Then she's like "Nah i need both parts( even though a few panels prior to that we see the rest of her body be like 12 feets away), plus it would be that strong anyways"...

I really thought that she would have been raised as and Undead Knight/Dark Paladin/Anti-Paladin, but nope, expectations not met.

Even though in retrospect, i kinda see why not, since it was a really annoying character( not like THE character or the writting, but her personallity was just...ugh...)

Still would like to see some Dark Paladin some day...