Battlefield Control and Debuff class help

[Ozzie831]

Hey there,

Kinda new to the game. In your opinions: What class/multiclass/PrCs builds do you guys think would be good at debuffing and battlefield control?

My group really doesnt need another straight damage dealer but we dont really have anyone that can really control the battle or give debuffs/buffs.

Ive been reading that the Dragonfire adept is pretty good, mostly flavor/fun factor but still pretty decent.

Let me know, Thanks!

[ColorBlindNinja]

Wizards with Conjuration spells tend to excel at battlefield control.

Druids get a few good battlefield control spells too, like Entangle.

[Martimus Prime]

Certain vestiges for the binder (Focalor, Chupoclops, Dantalion, etc) can be entertaining close-in debuffing options, especially when you can find ways to improve on Dantalion's 'you can't attack me' ability (knight of the sacred seal/scion of dantalion). I like to combo them with intimidation - based skill tricks and feats (i.e. never outnumbered).

[Mike Miller]

What is your party makeup? What level? What is the expected end level?

[Ozzie831]

Mike Miller:
There is a Monk (going to drunken master), wizard (focused on summoning and big aoe spells), Ranger (PrC into Master of Many Forms), and a healy cleric

We are level 8 right now. Planning on going to 20 if we can.

[Mike Miller]

That is a solid party (except for the monk...but maybe he is ok). I forgot an important question: what sources are available? Anything? I see more than core, since drunken master was mentioned.

[Efrate]

Dragonfire adept with entangling exhaustion and slow breath when you can get it is great bfc/debuff. You can take knowledge devotion and use the invocation that gives a fat bonus to knowledge checks to give substantial buffs to your ranger and monk, and even cleric if they wade in.

Binders have a bunch of neat stuff though not as good out the box as a DFA, but I love the class even without zycrell.

[Ozzie831]

Mike Miller
Basically everything 3.5 is fair game. All books, all dragon mags. Like planer shepherd is fair game.

Its a pretty decent combo of classes.

Im basically a "know it all" rogue that is used for spotting traps but my damage blows. I switch classes often due to not liking the style or the character in general. I dont mind this character but he is going to get out scaled super hard soon. Im pretty sure he is going to die sooner than later.

The Master of Many Forms-ranger is super over powered. He has the amulet that lets you use 4 levels higher creatures and a fanged ring. Turns into a war troll or a cave troll and just smashes everything for like 70 damage a turn. 100 per turn when our wizard uses Enlarge.

Our Monk is pretty much useless besides for the laughs. Kicks a lot of guys in the ****.

Our Wizard is focuses on summons and big boom spells. She is my girlfriend and has 0 clue what she is doing. She usually screws over the group more than she actually helps.

Our Cleric just rerolled to another cleric..... Turned him into a healer. I think he went towards the Servant of Palor. His original cleric used to just buff himself the whole time while we battled and actually never got to attack anything.

We just had a new guy join who was also a cleric. But the first session he got to play, he got one shot by one of the big baddies in our campaign soooooooo he is going to have to reroll something for our next session

[ayvango]

Best BFC spells are on the druid list. Control Winds, Blizzard, Stone Shape, Entangle, Impeding Stones, Summon Oread, Summon Yellow Musk Creeper. If you have access to early entry tricks, you could also theurge between druid and wizard.

[zfs]

Druid is definitely a very good class to start with and get familiar with BFC. There are some Wild Shape forms you can get access to with feats that'll add some debuffing options as well.

If your Wizard was actually using Save-or-Suck/Save-or-Die spells, you could do one of those ridiculous save debuff builds. Something like Unseelie Fey Hexblade/Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny (or both - your DM might let their Aura of Despair abilities stack, but by RAW they don't because they're identical abilities in name and function) with the Binding feat chain to get access to Focalor's Aura of Sadness. Pump your Cha, get loaded with some defensive buffs, and just park next to enemies. Add in 5 levels of Entropomancer and watch as no enemy ever succeeds on a safe against your party.

[Mike Miller]

If you want to go the spontaneous caster route, a sorcerer would be good. You just have to really accept that you won't be doing much other than BFC and debuffing due to the relatively low number of spells known. Of course, knowstones can increase the spells known, but innately they don't have a large number of spells at their disposal.

Some spells to consider just within core for BFC:
1:grease, summon monster 1 (SM from now on)
2:Fog cloud, SMII, Summon swarm, Web, hypnotic pattern, minor image
3:stinking cloud, SMIII, deep slumber, wind wall, major image, slow
4:black tentacles, solid fog, SMIV, wall of fire / ice, rainbow pattern
5:cloudkill, SMV, wall of force / stone, persistent image, waves of fatigue, transmute rock to mud
6:antimagic field, acid fog, SMVI, wall of iron, forceful hand, permanent image, programmed image
7:SMVII, power word blind, grasping hand, prismatic spray, waves of exhaustion, limited wish
8:Prismatic wall, SMVIII, mass charm monster, power word stun, scintillating pattern
9:prismatic sphere, SMIX, mass hold monster, power word kill, crushing hand, time stop, wish

Some spells to consider just within core for debuffing:
1:ray of enfeeblement, charm person, hypnotism, sleep, color spray, reduce person
2:glitterdust, daze monster, hideous laughter, touch of idiocy
3:deep slumber, hold person, ray of exhaustion
4:charm monster, confusion, crushing despair, resilient sphere, bestow curse, mass reduce person, enervation
5:dominate person, feeblemind, hold monster, baleful polymorph
6:eyebite, flesh to stone
7:insanity, forcecage
8:irresistible dance, telekinetic sphere, polymorph any object
9:imprisonment, dominate monster, energy drain

This is not all-inclusive. This was just what I gathered from a quick glance. You won't have the ability to know them all just from leveling. Also, there is definitely some crossover between what constitutes BFC and debuffing, since they can do both. Lots to choose from, though.

[Malphegor]

A melee Dread Necro (I think it was from Heroes of Horror?) plus Never Outnumbered and Imperious Command is in theory pretty fun for fear stacking for debuffs and controls.

So, your Dread Necro already has an 5ft aoe free action check to make those near it shaken, then you try to intimidate them (evil cackling, or a !Fools! Bow before me! type of thing ought to work) for another check to either advance that shookenness to frightened I think, plus Imperious Command makes all you managed to affect (10ft radius aoe!) with your intimidate cower for 1 round on top of everything else that's bothering them today.

That's a standard action.

Meanwhile your minions have their own actions to take advantage of the momentary loss of morale.

So, ideally, a dread necro probably would be swiftly moving through foes, getting as close as possible, constantly pumping out their fear aura to keep everyone shaken, keeping track of who's been shaken vs who isn't, bumping up those who've been shaken to the next stage, but then returning to their spells if things get too hot.