What alignment is this?

[Sigreid]

Another part of the population seems to believe that lawful means supporting local laws, no matter how unjust.

(Personally I agree that the character is Chaotic Good, but strongly disagree with the people saying opposing slavery is what makes him Chaotic)

Agreed, but I tend to see slightly more of the chaotic miss-characterization. Also, being chaotic doesn't mean you never follow the law or rules. I'd argue that a chaotic good person would make the case that if people would just strive to be decent, polite people there'd be no need for laws at all.

[SleepIncarnate]

Agreed, but I tend to see slightly more of the chaotic miss-characterization. Also, being chaotic doesn't mean you never follow the law or rules. I'd argue that a chaotic good person would make the case that if people would just strive to be decent, polite people there'd be no need for laws at all.

What I see most often is the idea of the Robin Hood type as the epitome of chaotic good. The thing is, Robin Hood was lawful good. He opposed Prince John because he was good, not because he was chaotic. He saw the system as unjust, as having been corrupt. When King Richard returned, Robin pledged himself. He was an outlaw because the system violated his morality, not because the system as a whole was bad.

[Malifice]

Then he'd be lawful evil.

I literally copied and pasted the definition of Chaotic evil there.

Mate, having a code of 'be chaotic' doesnt make you lawful.

The Sith 'code' is: Might makes right, act however your fear, hatred and rage direct you to. There can only ever be two of us, grow strong enough to betray and murder your master then take an apprentice yourself..


It's a CE 'code'.

[Mad_Saulot]

I literally copied and pasted the definition of Chaotic evil there.

Mate, having a code of 'be chaotic' doesnt make you lawful.

The Sith 'code' is: Might makes right, act however your fear, hatred and rage direct you to. There can only ever be two of us, grow strong enough to betray and murder your master then take an apprentice yourself..


It's a CE 'code'.

So alignments arent subjective eh? Well this thread and literaly every other alignment argument proves you wrong. Alignments are clearly subjective and should be abolished.

[Malifice]

So alignments arent subjective eh? Well this thread and literaly every other alignment argument proves you wrong. Alignments are clearly subjective and should be abolished.

Lel.

Alignments arent subjective. It's just that people get things wrong.

[Sigreid]

What I see most often is the idea of the Robin Hood type as the epitome of chaotic good. The thing is, Robin Hood was lawful good. He opposed Prince John because he was good, not because he was chaotic. He saw the system as unjust, as having been corrupt. When King Richard returned, Robin pledged himself. He was an outlaw because the system violated his morality, not because the system as a whole was bad.

Eh, they also get that rob from the rich and give to the poor thing wrong. If you look at it he was stealing from a government that was taxing unjustly and returning the money to the people. It's just that in a in his society the rich were rich because they were the taxing government.

[Mad_Saulot]

Lel.

Alignments arent subjective. It's just that people get things wrong.

How do you deal with algnment issues in your games, as I said before in my games they are pure fluff and i dont enforce alignments or recognise their having any bearing on roleplaying. But you keep saying people are wrong as opposed to the system of alignments themselves being wrong so I presume you still adhere to alignments but you use the my way or the highway approach? That is to say I presume your word is final on the matter and you brook no arguments from your players? Just curious, not trying to flame you or owt

[RedMage125]

How do you deal with algnment issues in your games, as I said before in my games they are pure fluff and i dont enforce alignments or recognise their having any bearing on roleplaying. But you keep saying people are wrong as opposed to the system of alignments themselves being wrong so I presume you still adhere to alignments but you use the my way or the highway approach? That is to say I presume your word is final on the matter and you brook no arguments from your players? Just curious, not trying to flame you or owt

He's saying that people quite often think things about alignment (such as what "chaotic" in alignment actually means) that is in direct opposition to what is explicitly stated as true in the RAW. Ergo, they are not just "of a different opinion on a subjective matter", they are objectively WRONG.

When discussing things on the forums, since all house rules and DM rulings are impossible to account for, only what is in the RAW can be considered "true". Take what Malifice said to SleepINcarnate. He copy/pasted the definition of Chaotic Evil from the book, and Sleep said "yeah, that's Lawful Evil". Objectively untrue.

Ironic from your implication about Malifice, YOU are the more intolerant person here, because your statement implies that you, under no exception, believe that "the system of alignments is a wrong/bad system", as if that was somehow a "fact", and than anyone who supports it is some kind of "my way or the highway" fascist DM.

[MadBear]

I find the bigger problem with this discussion here being that you can view alignment in a few different ways. If you have it as a strict ven-diagram, then people fit rigidly into one of 9 boxes. You can also view it as spectrum/graph. In that case where you draw the cut-off lines get quite blurry, and are very arbitrary/ GM dependent.

Again, I'll just point out that alignment usually doesn't make a game better, and can often make it worse.

[Mad_Saulot]

Alignment system is also restrictive by implication, for instance the Zhentarim are commonly accepted to be an "evil" organisation therefor all of its members must be evil, it restricts the scope of possibility, and assumes that there cannot be "good" aligned members within te organisation, the reverse is also true where you have a "Good" organisation, say the harper guild then by implication cannot have "evil" members that are not some form of infiltrator.

I avoid these issues by ignoring the alignment system, my players can choose an alignment if they want, because they think its traditional but I will never enforce their alignment nor will I fall into the trap of character or organisational alignment requirements never will there be an ingame statement by an npc where a player is denied access to a group based on their alignment.

This is why 5e is great, it removes the in system alignment restrictions like alignment based magic etc.

[hamishspence]

Alignment system is also restrictive by implication, for instance the Zhentarim are commonly accepted to be an "evil" organisation therefor all of its members must be evil, it restricts the scope of possibility, and assumes that there cannot be "good" aligned members within te organisation, the reverse is also true where you have a "Good" organisation, say the harper guild then by implication cannot have "evil" members that are not some form of infiltrator.

"Evil organizations" in D&D often have Neutral members. And the same is true of Good organizations. Only the vilest evil organizations, like the Ravagers from Complete Warrior, are so Evil that it is impossible for a Neutral person to "get in".

Plus, given how rarely used Detect Alignment Magic is (and how easy it is to foil) it's quite plausible for a character within an organization to change alignment to an inappropriate one - and not get caught for a long period. Thus, Evil Harpers, or Good Zhentarium quietly working against the worst excesses of the rest of the organization in secret.

[Millstone85]

I literally copied and pasted the definition of Chaotic evil there.

Take what Malifice said to SleepINcarnate. He copy/pasted the definition of Chaotic Evil from the book, and Sleep said "yeah, that's Lawful Evil".

I would call it a paraphrase.

[greenstone]

…what alignment fits this backstory?

If you have to ask then the answer is "Chaotic Evil".

:-)