Shield & Hand Crossbow?

[The Jack]

Unlike pistol, crossbow needs more space thanks to the wide (comparable to the windth of the pistol) bow, the quarrel would fall out if you held it in the wrong position, can't be kept cocked indefinitely as you would weaken the bow, and you're more likely to trigger it by accident and shoot yourself when you move around.

Carrying a brace of pistol works, carriyng a bunch of loaded and cocked crossbows doesn't.

A crossbow the size of a pistol with pre-modern technology would be somewhere between a 22. and a BB gun. You're only going to be a danger if the enemy is naked and you're using poison or hitting them in the eyes. Things like ergonomics and such don't come into it, it's strictly a rule-of-cool weapon (unless they're like... carbine size, then they might be feasible)

Furthermore... I think most of your issues could be resolved with just better engineering. Add some bells and whistles to keep things in place and such...

[LudicSavant]

Not for Arcane Tricksters. They can operate Mage Hand with a Bonus Action.





There may be question as to whether or not you can load a crossbow with Mage Hand while you hold it (debatable, but the specialized Mage Hand CAN operate Thieves' Tools by itself), but I don't think there's any question as to whether or not you could have the hand hold the crossbow while you load it yourself.

The Hand holds up to 10 pounds, and the Hand Crossbow weighs 3. If you include the bolt (weights 1.5 lbs. per 20 pieces, or .075 lbs. each), it's well within the weight limit.

Wouldn't the actual forces acting on the hand include the force necessary to draw the crossbow? That's way more than 10 pounds.

[Man_Over_Game]

Wouldn't the actual forces acting on the hand include the force necessary to draw the crossbow? That's way more than 10 pounds.

I'd also say that operating the Thieves' Tools necessary to stop complex machinery with zero loss in accuracy using a single, invisible hand is impossible with 10 pounds worth of strength, but here we are.

The same 3lb., one handed crossbow deals as much damage as being slashed with a 3lb. Scimitar, and can be fired 2-5 times in the same 6 second period with "special training". Sure, realistically, a crossbow would take more than 10lbs to load, but also realistically, a crossbow capable of being loaded and fired once every two seconds wouldn't have the impact of a sword or an axe.

Sometimes, realism doesn't fit.

Narratively, I think it seems rather cool, and balance-wise, I can't find it being much better than most other circumstances, so...why not?

[LudicSavant]

I'd also say that operating the Thieves' Tools necessary to stop complex machinery with zero loss in accuracy using a single, invisible hand is impossible with 10 pounds worth of strength, but here we are.

I'm not sure what you think is coming in a set of Thieves' Tools. You get a small file, narrow bladed scissors, a small mirror, a set of lock picks. Tools for delicate work like cutting tripwires and such.

Saying you can manipulate scissors or lock picks or a small mirror doesn't seem like grounds for concluding that it can handle considerably more than 10 pounds (or, in other words, do more than what the rules say it can do).

[Naanomi]

Be a loxodon, use your nose

[jaappleton]

Be a loxodon, use your nose

Its a TRUNK, don't be so insensitive!

[Naanomi]

Its a TRUNK, don't be so insensitive!

Whatever you call it, watch it fly as your lvl 20 fighter action surges and it rapidly reloads each shot in less than a second

[HappyDaze]

Be a loxodon, use your nose

I'm pretty sure that they specifically cannot use the trunk to reload a weapon.

[LudicSavant]

I'm pretty sure that they specifically cannot use the trunk to reload a weapon.

I think the idea Naanomi is suggesting is that you basically are holding the crossbow with hand+trunk, taking your hand off the trigger to reload, then putting it back to fire.

As long as transferring items between hands doesn't cost anything (which JC has said is the case), you just need the trunk to hold the weapon while you reload it. The trunk doesn't have to do the actual reloading.

So as long as the trunk can resist the weight of drawing the hand crossbow, I can't think of anything that would prevent this.

[Citadel97501]

So now that it has been noted that this mainly works with Crossbow Expert due to the Sage Advice errata, does anyone have any class suggestions? I was thinking this would work well with a Rogue & Fighter multi-class. The Rogue would let you have expertise in Athletics making the shove more efficient, while also providing a sneak attack damage boost for shooting people when they are prone. Fighter gets you the armor proficiencies, fighting style for archery, action surge, and the extra attacks.

I was thinking Champion works best with this due to the Advantage and the Crit fishing but I am still looking it over, and am definitely willing to hear other suggestions.

Prone Targets using 1 attack for a shove: At level 6: Fighter 5, Rogue 1, Dexterity 16 or 17 (V Human better off with an 18 and earlier access.)
1 shove, 1 action shot, 1 bonus action shot.
Average Damage rolls: 2d6+3=10, and 1d6+3=6.5, Critical hits are 4d6+3=17, 2d6+3=10
DPR VS. AC 16: +8 to hit, (0.79% and a 19% for a crit), 18.56
DPR VS. AC 19: +8 to hit, (0.6525% and a 19% for a crit), 15.89

[HappyDaze]

I think the idea Naanomi is suggesting is that you basically are holding the crossbow with hand+trunk, taking your hand off the trigger to reload, then putting it back to fire.

As long as transferring items between hands doesn't cost anything (which JC has said is the case), you just need the trunk to hold the weapon while you reload it. The trunk doesn't have to do the actual reloading.

So as long as the trunk can resist the weight of drawing the hand crossbow, I can't think of anything that would prevent this.

Both hands are part of the reloading. Any other idea is just silly rules lawyering.

[Naanomi]

Wielding a weapon is forbidden with a trunk, but reloading one isn’t... some dm adjudication is at play of course

[HappyDaze]

Wielding a weapon is forbidden with a trunk, but reloading one isn’t... some dm adjudication is at play of course

I would think that reloading a weapon requires "manual precision" which the trunk is explicitly incapable of providing.

[Naanomi]

I would think that reloading a weapon requires "manual precision" which the trunk is explicitly incapable of providing.

It can pull, push, grapple... loading a crossbow seems within that range of challenge to me. Again, DM adjudication requires perhaps

[HappyDaze]

It can pull, push, grapple... loading a crossbow seems within that range of challenge to me. Again, DM adjudication requires perhaps

Can an elephant reload a crossbow with its trunk? Basically that should be the test of what the trunk can do because that's what it's based upon.

[JackPhoenix]

Can an elephant reload a crossbow with its trunk? Basically that should be the test of what the trunk can do because that's what it's based upon.

Only one way to find out. I'll provide the crossbow, you get the elephant.

Jokes aside, no, real elephant wouldn't because he lacks hands and only one limb is too low. You can possibly cock a crossbow with one hand, if you have a way to steady it (most likely by using stirrup) and the correct mechanism (either hand-drawn with low enough draw weight to draw the string with one hand, winch or lever (the later two could propably be operated with a trunk if you design them for it)), however, you'll need to keep it leveled and steady as you put the quarrel into the groove, so it doesn't fall out before you can take aim. That can also be done with one hand... just put it down, insert quarrel, lift it... but that's no go because that would take two object interactions in D&D (one to put it down carefully, another to grab it again), but trunk should be strong and dexterous enough to hold the crossbow level so you can load the bolt with your free hand.