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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Luckily, I have a Van Saar sprue I never used.
    From this post, I went to check other Necromunda models. And holy [poop] there's a Needle-Bolter in the Escher kit.
    To eBay!
    Spoiler: My Mum Says I'm Cool
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Yeah, the necromunda models are awesome for assassin kitbashing from what I've seen. I'll post pics when I'm done, have a real eversor to compare to as well.
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    By Alterform


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    Lore: 7.

    Factors: 2.

    Wealth: 5

    Magic: 4

    Espionage: 4

    Reputation: 3.

    Military: 2.

    Faith: 6.



  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    So if GSC adding brood brother detachments get half cp rounded up, and auxiliary support detachments are -1 cp, do GSC get them without the cp penalty? Why, yes, I believe by RAW they do!
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Warhammer Community teased that next month's White Dwarf would include a start to a new Vigilus-themed Tale Of Four Warlords. Given that i'm a sucker for community projects and excuses to buy models, I've decided to play along, with roughly one Start Collecting box's worth of Genestealer Cultists in the next month. (Jackal Alphus, ten neophytes, five bikes, and I might throw in a Ridgerunner). Anyone else joining in?
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  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    So after figuring out that Knight Renegade only came with 1 upgrade spruce my knights are, for now, done.

    Spoiler: cancer
    Show


    ++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [67 PL, 1202pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Household Choice: House Hawkshroud, Questor Imperialis

    + Lord of War +

    Knight Errant [22 PL, 398pts]: Heavy Stubber, Thermal Cannon, Thunderstrike gauntlet

    Knight Errant [22 PL, 398pts]: Heavy Stubber, Thermal Cannon, Thunderstrike gauntlet

    Knight Warden [23 PL, 406pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword
    . Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [41 PL, 793pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Catachan

    + HQ +

    Company Commander [2 PL, 39pts]: Boltgun, Power fist

    Company Commander [2 PL, 39pts]: Boltgun, Power fist

    + Troops +

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
    . 6x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
    . Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
    . Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
    . 6x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
    . Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
    . Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
    . 6x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
    . Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
    . Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
    . 6x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
    . Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
    . Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

    Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
    . 6x Guardsman
    . Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
    . Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
    . Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

    + Elites +

    Ratlings [4 PL, 90pts]
    . 10x Ratling: 10x Sniper Rifle

    Ratlings [4 PL, 90pts]
    . 10x Ratling: 10x Sniper Rifle

    + Heavy Support +

    Basilisks [7 PL, 110pts]
    . Basilisk: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber

    Basilisks [7 PL, 110pts]
    . Basilisk: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber

    ++ Total: [108 PL, 1995pts] 14cp ++


    I'm fairly certain I spend 1 cp for Emperors Wrath, but do I spend any more for knight goodies?
    Last edited by 9mm; 2019-02-23 at 12:56 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Had a game of Tau vs. Marines last night. The guy was waiting at the store for an opponent who never showed up, but was itching for a game, so I grabbed my dudes to go at it.

    His army was not optimized, but he wanted to see how he would do against my refined list.

    Here are the lists:
    Close Combat Tau
    Spoiler
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    3x Battalion, all T'au sept
    Shadowsun, Drones
    XV8 Commander, 3x missile, ATS
    Coldstar, 4x Fusion
    2x Fireblade (1 warlord, TUD)
    Darkstrider

    2x10 Strikers
    Kroot
    6x5 Breachers

    2x3 Stealth suits, Shield drones
    2x Ghostkeels
    Crisis suits, plas/missile
    3x Marksmen

    Gun Drones
    2 Ion pathfinders
    Rail Pathfinders


    Primaris Mech
    Spoiler
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    Battalion, Salamanders
    Captain
    Chaplin
    Lieutenant

    3x Intercessor
    Apothecary
    6 man Plasma Fly guys

    Las Pred

    3x Gattling/Twin Las repulsors


    We played the new chapter approved mission with 4 objectives, only troops score. Deployment was the long way.

    I deployed first lining up on the line mostly, with two squads of breachers filling up my backfield to screen out his deep strikers from being able to assassinate my characters. I discovered an interesting twist with how the new deployment works with stealth suits--since he had no stuff on the field I could go anywhere outside his depolyment zone. So the stealth blob set up in a crater near one of his two objectives (the objectives were basically on the edge of the deployment zones). The crisis suits and gun drones went in reserves.

    He then deployed his infantry in his repulsors, which, along with the predator went in the corner furthest away from the stealth blob.

    He then managed to seize on me, so got first turn. He jumped out his captain and lieutenant, and tried to kill off my ghostkeels. He was smart enough to target shield drones with anti-infantry weapons, but at the end of it had only killed of shadowsun's drones, one pair of shield drones, one stealth drone (from savior protocols) and one of the stealth suit squads. The other stealth drone in the pair did run away, but I still had a pair for my ghostkeels.

    On my turn I called mont'ka with shadowsun to get the stealth blob in fusion range of the repulsors, and moved up with most of my stuff. Between the stealth blob and commanders, I was able to cripple one repulsor, bracket another, and bracket the predator (that last was the missile commander). Infantry were mostly out of range, except for some marker light support.

    His turn he disembarked some intercessors, moved his repulsors closer, and brought in the plasma dudes next to his repulsors. He managed to finish off my drones, kill another stealth suit, and get one ghostkeel down to 1 wound. He made some charges but did not do much. Then I forgot to fight back.

    On my turn Shadowsun, the ghostkeels, and last stealth suit jumped back a little bit, and I unloaded on him. My kroot were now in position to screen for my coldstar to hit his back, undamaged repulsor, and my infantry had moved up into range, both the strikers, rail pathfinders, and a few squads of breachers. I blasted his repulsor that was in the face of my stealth blob, and it managed to blow up, taking the hurt ghotkeel, shadowsun, the stealth suit, some breachers, some kroot and some marines all out. I think I was also able to blast his orginally unhurt repulsor into dust, between the exploding repulsor and my coldstar.

    On his turn he managed to focus down my other ghostkeel, and kill off my kroot.

    My turn, I got troops on all the objectives (the two screening breacher squads on the back ones, a squad on the one that my stealth had started by, and a single brave breacher who had survived explosions and stuff on the one by his repulsors). My coldstart went YOLO over at his predator, jumping an inch or so away. The predator melted satisfyingly while my infantry gunned down his marines. (he had one intercessor that survived a dozen triple-tap strikers and some breachers, before finally going down to a shot from a rail rifle.) My missile commander finished off his crippled repulsor.

    At this point he just had his four characters left, so he tried charging my coldstar with three of them. He wiffed his attacks vs. T5, so we called it there, since he had no way of catching up to my score with no more troops.

    Lessons learned:
    We both forgot stuff that would have helped us out. He completely forgot to use his chapter tactics, and I forgot to bring in my crisis suits. I kept on remembering in the middle of my shooting phase.

  7. - Top - End - #517
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Played two games this week with an easy-mode list. Felt like I wasn't really playing the game.

    Spoiler: My List
    Show
    Ultramarines, SHAD
    (W) Roboute Guilliman

    Ultramarines, Battalion
    Chief Librarian Tigurius
    Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer Storm Shield

    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter & Chainsword
    Scouts (x5); Boltguns, Heavy Bolter, Boltgun & Chainsword

    Inceptors (x3); Assault Bolters (x6)
    Inceptors (x3); Assault Bolters (x6)

    Hawkshroud, Super-Heavies
    (C) Knight Errant; Heavy Stubber, Thermal Cannon, Reaper Chainsword, Ion Bulwark
    Armiger Warglaives (x2); Heavy Stubbers (x2)
    Armiger Warglaive; Heavy Stubber

    Exalted Court (-1 CP)

    Total: 1999 Points | 13 CPs


    Spoiler: Game 1
    Show
    Prophets of Flesh, Spearhead
    (W) Urien Rakarth

    Grotesques (x5)

    Talosi (x2); Haywire Blasters, Chain-Flails
    Talosi (x2); Haywire Blasters, Chain-Flails
    Talos; Haywire Blaster, Chain-Flails

    Ulthwé, Battalion
    Eldrad Ulthran; Doom, Executioner
    Asurman

    Dire Avengers (x10)
    Dire Avengers (x10)
    Dire Avengers (x10)

    Wave Serpent; Twin Bright Lance, Spirit Stones ?

    Ulthwé, Outrider
    Warlock; Quicken

    Warp Spiders (x6); Exarch; Power Blades?
    Jetbikes (x3); Scatter Lasers
    Shining Spears (x6); Exarch; Star Lance

    That looks about right.


    My Captain picked up Sanctic Halo whilst Tigurius' 3rd Power was Psychic Fortress, and despite my opponent making several mistakes including the following;
    1. Not moving to an Objective to score a very easy Supremacy on Turn 1.
    2. Forgetting to Fall Back from Guilliman which meant that he was immune to shooting for a turn.
    3. Forgetting his Shining Spears in Reserve on Turn 2, meaning that they didn't come down 'til Turn 3.

    His Talos Engines dropped my Knight really fast. Like...A lot faster than I expected them to. Fortunately being Hawkshroud allowed me to get another turn out of them that I normally wouldn't have had.
    The Captain & Inceptors did loads of work...In the shooting phases. There was a particularly bad phase where Guilliman couldn't cut through Grotesques to save himself, my Errant couldn't Chainsword Talos Engines very hard at all, whilst my plan had been to drop two Dire Avengers with my Captain and Consolidate into Ausrman and Fight again...The dice decided that they hated me extra special and a Smash Captain couldn't even drop two Dire Avengers. It was generally a bad time.

    Armiger Warglaives are worth...A lot. T7 with an Invulnerable means they can DefObX fairly easily because your opponent can't afford to put too much firepower into them because there are other threats on the board. But Armigers can never be left at full Wounds because next turn they come screaming in with 8 Attacks.

    I did lose the game, 10-18. Even though my opponent made several mistakes. Fact is, I could've removed the Battalion, and aside from the loss of Command Points and three Denies, I don't think I would've missed it. As an <Imperium> player, I really feel like there should be a Faction that offers efficient Command Point generation whilst also providing a boatload of boots on the ground.

    Spoiler: Game 2
    Show
    Apologies if I get any of this wrong.

    Custodes, Outrider
    (W) Shield-Captain; Gatekeeper, Radiant Mantle

    Terminator Vexilla; -1 to hit

    Vertus Praetors (x6); Hurricane Bolters
    Pallas Grav-Tank
    Pallas Grav-Tank
    Venatari Custodes (x3)

    Cusotdes, Spearhead
    Trajann Valoris

    Caladius Grav-Tank
    Sagittarum Custodes There may have been two units of these.
    Telemon Heavy Dreadnought

    85 Points left for some reason.


    He starts the game saying he picks up a Callidus 'for free'...What am I gonna do? Pretend I haven't seen the rules? Anyway, not really my problem that he wants to start with only 4 CPs. Kind of felt bad for the guy, since he's obviously spent so much money on Forge World models/rules, and no-one ever lets him use it because it's Forge World. But, I know that he's only adding Forge World Custodes...To Codex Custodes. He couldn't really 'break' his army if he tried. Fortunately, he's Custodes, so everything is ObSec anyway. He doesn't need Troops. But I do wonder where all his CPs are. So...Let's do this.

    His turn went real bad. But I think that's because I'm playing a very similar game to him. My units are either
    a) Vulnerable and not on the board, or
    b) Don't matter because they're dumb Scouts, or
    c) Are too durable.

    He fails to pick up First Strike. But this is Tactical Whatsit, so you get to play ITC and choose how you win on Turn 1. So he still got two points. Me? I always choose Supremacy on Turn 1 because why wouldn't you pick an Objective you know you can score for D3 VPs? Anyway, my Armigers run up and dunk on his Pallas Tank, whilst Guilliman dunks on the other one. On my right flank, the Errant and his Armiger pal double Team the Praetors and put the hurt on them real bad.

    The Caladius isn't great. It's basically a pre-buffed Exorcist. It's good when it works. But two-thirds of the time it doesn't, and just really tried to stay on the second storey of Ruins so that neither Guilliman or the Errant could Melee it to death. I forgot my Inceptors and Captain in Reserve on Turn 2, which screwed me so hard. Fortunately, on his Turn 2, he put the Callidus and Venetari in Charge range of Guilliman. So I got a few VPs I still lost so much board control anyway.

    Turn 3 it really started to go downhill, where I failed to kill anything, and I failed all of my Charges. And my Knight Errant vs. his Warlord...His Warlord made 4 Invulnerables. By Turn 5 I was basically tabled...But my opponent moved off the Objective, allowing me to score a bunch of points with Guilliman. So that was cool.

    Game goes to Turn 6. I score like...7 Points and my opponent scores none.
    Game goes to Turn 7. Guilliman Charges the Dreadnought, scoring Big Game Hunter, Blood and Guts and getting a Kill Point. Whilst my Knight does very little. My opponent scores no points.

    At the end of Turn 7, I had Guilliman and the Errant on the board (shock). He had Valoris and the unit of shooty Custodes left.

    Tactical Whatsit is an extremely high-scoring game, and the deck cycles extraordinarily fast if you have even a slightly good army...

    29-24.

    Once again the heavy lifters of the list were the Knights and Guilliman. Then again, we were both playing fairly similar lists that play the same game, so I don't know how much of anything that had to do with anything. But Guilliman handing out re-roll 1s to hit to the Knights is exceptionally useful. It was pretty funny having people come up to the table and asking why I have a Knight Errant (hint; 'Cause it's Gerantius...He was so ****en broke). Basically...'Cause I have one. But why an Errant? ...Well, 'cause when I bought him the only choices were Errant or Paladin. None of these new-fangled Gallants or Avenger Gatling Cannons. But, fact is...A Knight Errant might be the second-worst Knight in the book...But it's still a Knight, and that Thermal Cannon puts in so much work against pretty much every 'casual' list I've ever seen - including both games I played this weekend.

    I'm pretty sure that's what's getting me games with my Knight, specifically.
    It's not garbage so I don't not want to take it, and by taking it I can win games, which actually means I want to play the game even after Deployment is over. Additionally my opponents don't cry about me having Gallants or a Crusader/Castellan so they're willing to play me because my army isn't unfair. So...That's cool.
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  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    I watched the top table of the final round of the Circle City Invitational yesterday on stream, Imperial Knights (3x Questoris class, I believe two Paladins and a Gallant) and Guard (a real Guard list, not the Loyal 32; 2x Punisher tank commanders and a boatload of Vostroyan infantry) vs. Ynnari. It was an entirely one-sided slaughter. Soulburst is completely busted; the Eldar player effectively got to take two turns for the Imperium player's one, and despite the Imperium player going first, he was tabled in three rounds taking a little over an hour. (The Eldar player did try to use a Wave Serpent's serpent shield in close combat vs. a Knight, but someone pointed it out in the stream and the casters informed the judges, who corrected them.)
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2019-02-24 at 07:40 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    He starts the game saying he picks up a Callidus 'for free'...What am I gonna do? Pretend I haven't seen the rules?
    ....What? He really thought it reads "Spend 1CP at the start of the game: Gain an Assassin of your choice"?

    I mean... how? How can you be that wrong while not being wilfully cheating?
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  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Given that he had an assassin's worth of free points, I assume he was thinking it was free in terms of CPs.
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  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    ....What? He really thought it reads "Spend 1CP at the start of the game: Gain an Assassin of your choice"?
    Well, that's exactly what it says.

    1CP. "...if your Warlord has the <Imperium> Keyword [...] During Deployment [...] Add one <Officio Assassinorum> unit of your choice to your army. [You have to have 85 Points spare]."

    Except despite not even being the WD not even released (i.e; the rules aren't technically legal yet)...
    I have the rules on my phone.
    He has the rules on his phone.
    We both know that that's what the rule is. I'm not going to pretend that I haven't seen the rules and that I don't know what they are. It's just weird that he's built his list around something that isn't even legal yet and I like how he just assumed that I'd be cool with it.

    (I'm cool with it because his army isn't even that good anyway - or, rather, not significantly better than mine - and if he wants to spend 1 out of his only 5 CPs before the game even starts for one single model...That's fine with me)
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-02-24 at 08:15 AM.
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    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I watched the top table of the final round of the Circle City Invitational yesterday on stream
    Got a link? sounds interesting.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    We both know that that's what the rule is. I'm not going to pretend that I haven't seen the rules and that I don't know what they are. It's just weird that he's built his list around something that isn't even legal yet and I like how he just assumed that I'd be cool with it.
    It sounded like he thought he was getting a free ("for the cost of 1CP") Assassin and you called him out on it. Now that you have clarified the problem... It's still cheating, on a when-you-get-right-down-to-the-bottom-line technical level because the rules aren't officially in the game yet. You'd have had every right, even though you were being a nice guy about it, to refuse to let him do it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    A funny thing happened over the weekend;

    Our Warhammer store was sent 3 Raines.

    She's how much!?
    She's resin!?
    Well...Is she any good? (hint; No).

    As of Sunday closing, 3 Raines were still on the shelf. I think two (?) people might have pre-ordered her and 'got her from the back'? But that doesn't count.

    My guess is that a Capital City store will run out of Raines (because they have three times the customer base that ours does, and it's really easy to run out of stock when you only get three). Our store's Raines will be off the shelves by virtue of another store asking for ours' stock.

    Give the customer what they want; A female pre-nerf Commissar.
    In a format they want; Plastic.
    At a price they can afford; Not more than twice the price of a normal Commissar.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-02-24 at 10:22 PM.
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    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Got a link? sounds interesting.
    Sadly their Twitch stream doesn't seem to have saved the video. https://www.twitch.tv/mags_tournament
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    A funny thing happened over the weekend;

    Our Warhammer store was sent 3 Raines.

    She's how much!?
    She's resin!?
    Well...Is she any good? (hint; No).

    As of Sunday closing, 3 Raines were still on the shelf. I think two (?) people might have pre-ordered her and 'got her from the back'? But that doesn't count.

    My guess is that a Capital City store will run out of Raines (because they have three times the customer base that ours does, and it's really easy to run out of stock when you only get three). Our store's Raines will be off the shelves by virtue of another store asking for ours' stock.

    Give the customer what they want; A female pre-nerf Commissar.
    In a format they want; Plastic.
    At a price they can afford; Not more than twice the price of a normal Commissar.
    "Wait, what? She's finecast! Oh fu*k me, what a waste of money! "

    We got 3 and have multiple dedicated guard players, there's still two on the shelves and I suspect that it will remain that way for much the same reason as yours will.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    I did a straw poll amongst my own group of friends in the UK (and my own local store) and here she was all gone by about noon.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I did a straw poll amongst my own group of friends in the UK (and my own local store) and here she was all gone by about noon.
    Again, I'll cite the Noise Marine and exactly the same situation; It's not that nobody will buy a model. There's a market for everything. Additionally, if you have limited stock and a large-ish customer base, of course you can sell out, that's 100% sales, right there.

    My real issue is why people would buy it? I don't understand the appeal of the model.
    If the appeal is 'Because women', as I already said several weeks ago. Raine isn't noticeably female. If GW is going to set that precedent, then any model you own is now potentially female. If you start finding some female Stormcast heads, or Sisters of the Watch, or Sisters of Silence, or if you do a little bit of knife-work then you can pick up some Drukhari heads. Then, while I don't use them myself, I know Victoria does some solid female heads. A friend of mine already has a female Lord Commissar 'cause someone else in our meta used the helmet option for Naeve Blacktalon, freeing up a female head for anyone who wanted it.

    If you bought Raine on release weekend, or know someone who did...Why? That's really what I want to know. The two or three guys in my store who pre-ordered Raine were going to buy her no matter what. I suspect at least one of them is selling her on eBay in a few months to make a tidy profit.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Maybe they like the books, or think she'd be cool to paint, or want an official female commissar regardless of how "noticable" she is. I've got an Imperial Guard army that's half ladies because of some Statuesque heads, and i'm going to repeat the trick for my Genestealer Cult. Never have I gone "man, i wish these models had wider hips".
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Maybe they like the book
    ...But the book was released on the same day she was.

    or think she'd be cool to paint
    Did they say that? What makes her different from any other Commissar?

    or want an official female commissar regardless of how "noticable" she is.
    Did they say that? What makes her different from any other Commissar?

    Why did someone shell out more than twice the price, for a resin model that isn't noticeably different from the existing model, for a model whose rules aren't even good?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Never have I gone "man, i wish these models had wider hips".
    And why would you?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    And why would you?
    Honestly, i'm just trying to figure out what your objection to her not being "noticably female" is. You say "this sets the precedent that people can just use female heads on male bodies!" as if that's not what everyone's been doing for years already. I'm not sure I understand the point you're making at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Honestly, i'm just trying to figure out what your objection to her not being "noticably female" is.
    Then you're mistaken. Because I'm not objecting to that. I'm objecting to the people who bought the model, on that basis.

    My...

    If the appeal is 'Because women', as I already said several weeks ago. Raine isn't noticeably female.
    ...Isn't an Objection to Raine being female. If you want to buy Raine because she's 'a female model, OMG', your reasoning don't hold much water, because she isn't noticeably female so what difference does it make? If you take any female head and stick it on a Guard model, it looks pretty much exactly the same. Which may be the case for some models. It may not be the case for other models. But it definitely is the case for Raine.

    You say "this sets the precedent that people can just use female heads on male bodies!" as if that's not what everyone's been doing for years already.
    That's pretty much my point.
    If you're going to use Raine as an example, then any model you own is female. That is, you don't need to buy Raine.

    People have been saying the same thing about Space Marines for years. They're in massive, bulky Power Armour. If you want to call them women, it's not going to make any difference to you. Sure, it's not going to work so great when you explain it to other people. But it's not their hobby, is it?

    I'm not sure I understand the point you're making at all.
    Because if people have been putting female heads onto male bodies for years, then what is it that makes Raine special?

    Why did people buy Raine, when cheaper and/or better alternatives exist?
    If anyone in this thread can answer me that, I'm all ears.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Callidus Assassins have Damage 2 weapon that ignores Invulnerables.
    Reign of Confusion goes for two turns, now, if you want it to (you do).
    They don't take Detachment slots all to themselves anymore so there's no longer an oppurtunity cost to taking them.
    If you Charge a weak(er) Character then you can also pick up extra CPs.

    ...I'm still waiting for 'A Callidus can be anything they want - including an actual Genestealer, that's canon! - so it's cool that GW made the official model have a female form.'
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...I'm still waiting for 'A Callidus can be anything they want - including an actual Genestealer, that's canon! - so it's cool that GW made the official model have a female form.'
    I remember, once upon a time, that Polymorphine "worked better" on women than it did on men, so Callidus tended to be women because they had to keep taking doses - if they stopped, they would revert back to their 'real' form involuntarily.
    Maybe it was GW's idea of offsetting the "all Space Marines have to be men" thing, but it doesn't seem to exist anymore. Given that 2 of the 3 models are from Second Edition, them being female is more a matter of laziness than it is progressiveness.

    The Callidus Assassins are the most cunning of all the assassins. Their greatest asset is their ability to use the shape-changing drug Polymorphine. This drug, coupled with special training, allows Callidus agents to change their very shape and appearance allowing them to impersonate other persons, members of the opposite sex, and even humanoid xenos like Orks and Eldar. Meh'Lindi, one of the most cunning agents, managed to successfully impersonate a Genestealer Hybrid at least twice (though she required additional surgery to complete the illusion).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    I asked and the general consensus was "because she's cool". I think we might be getting into subjective stuff here.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I asked and the general consensus was "because she's cool". I think we might be getting into subjective stuff here.

    Yeah, I can't really see the point of this discussion. I think the model looks really cool, and that's pretty much it.

    I mean, it's like how I chose not to give my Bullgryns their armor because I think it's really ugly.
    Subjectivity.

    And for every argument anyone can make that Bullgryn armor is cool, I can make two completely objective (read: subjective) arguments for the exact opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Because if people have been putting female heads onto male bodies for years, then what is it that makes Raine special?

    Why did people buy Raine, when cheaper and/or better alternatives exist?
    If anyone in this thread can answer me that, I'm all ears.
    Well, it's a bit tangential to all those things you talked about.

    While you can make female Commissars for a fraction of the cost, and in better materials - doing so does not tell GW that you want to see more female models. They're going to make more, because it's 2019, and even if they weren't flying off the shelf, you're still going to make more. But, purchasing a limited model of a lore-focused female Commissar is a show of solidarity with GW saying "yes, I'll buy this because I like what it represents and what you're trying to do".

    Personally I'm not getting it, because I sold all my Guard and don't really care about the whole thing, but I can easily see why people are excited to support GW in this venture. When a company you like makes a step in a direction you like, even if it's not perfect, you want to back them up. Or at least, that's one reason I can think of.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Why would anyone buy Eisenhorn? Ew, a resin model? And his rules aren't even that good, who cares about Summoning? You can get generic inquisitors for less in points and cost, and even then there's no point in buying them. You know you can make whatever kind of male inquisitor you want, just by buying a third party male head?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Well, it's a bit tangential to all those things you talked about.

    While you can make female Commissars for a fraction of the cost, and in better materials - doing so does not tell GW that you want to see more female models. They're going to make more, because it's 2019, and even if they weren't flying off the shelf, you're still going to make more. But, purchasing a limited model of a lore-focused female Commissar is a show of solidarity with GW saying "yes, I'll buy this because I like what it represents and what you're trying to do".

    Personally I'm not getting it, because I sold all my Guard and don't really care about the whole thing, but I can easily see why people are excited to support GW in this venture. When a company you like makes a step in a direction you like, even if it's not perfect, you want to back them up. Or at least, that's one reason I can think of.
    Basically this. Also, I don’t currently collect guard, but like the Commissar aesthetic enough that I’d be interested in collecting one. I wouldn’t get a generic one, but decided to order Raine as a potential future project.

    So my reasons for having bought one are:
    - I want to show support for this move that is putting a lot of emphasis behind a female character. It’s not just about being a female version of a unit, it’s about a new character being heavily promoted, which is a good way to demonstrate changed direction.
    - I like the model, and wouldn’t mind the opportunity to paint one so I can have a guard mini in my collection.
    - indications are that it is limited edition, so I’m unlikely to get it cheaper by waiting (I’m not happy about this being the case though!)
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