Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

[Blackhawk748]

I mean, you know what GW's lead times are. Of course they're going to have to FAQ it. Or they could FAQ it as soon as its released like the Space Wolves and - oh no, everyone complained their asses off about that too.

I think the cult stuff looks cool! Getting down to a 7" charge from reserve is pretty nasty for a big squad of purestrains, but so is making them 4++ save, and getting everything a better save against low-rend. I might go with Rusted Cog for the paint scheme and bonus save, but Four-Armed-Emperor looks like the one to beat.

If they were going to do it, they could do it right now. Post up the FAQ one and tell everyone that the one in the Codex was designed before they realized how good a Strat like that was and so it was too late to change it.

Yes, people will be annoyed but less annoyed than teasing us with it and then taking it away almost immediately.

[LeSwordfish]

And people would whine their hearts out about that too. Some people in this hobby are gamers, or painters, or collectors: some are whiners.

[LansXero]

And people would whine their hearts out about that too. Some people in this hobby are gamers, or painters, or collectors: some are whiners.

Yes, but these people wouldnt have paid money for a model under rules that the marketing team is highlighting to then have said rules be changed on the spot. Thats a huge difference

[LeSwordfish]

I don't disagree this specific situation isn't silly, i'm just confident that there would be just as much of a fuss if it were the space wolves again, and life is too short.

[Blackhawk748]

I don't disagree this specific situation isn't silly, i'm just confident that there would be just as much of a fuss if it were the space wolves again, and life is too short.

I don't think there would be as much of a fuss. If that is what they had done I certainly wouldn't have cared, but to do what they are doing annoys me, because I know they have to nerf it. I'm just calling it as laziness.

[LudDavenport]

Brood brothers continues to look trash. *sigh* just make them all chatchen equivalent or something.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-3/

Not surprising. I liked the idea of the original Kill Team "campaign" kits and rewards, but this is much more reasonable for the average store. For a growing/niche game (And yes while it's a GW mainline game, it's still pretty small in comparison to AoS/40k, at least at in our area), it's easier to get people in for a day than to set up a league. Especially when people like me only get a day or two per week to play and it's already filled with our "main game".

On that note, what's a good Kill Team to start? I've got my Necrons but sold my Guard (was selling the army as a lot, goodbye Scions!), so I'm looking for something a bit different. How are just straight up Marines, especially with a Primaris focus? Or Tyranids?

[Cheesegear]

On that note, what's a good Kill Team to start?

Any of the Chaos Teams. Provided that you like Cultists, Tzaangors or Poxwalkers.

How are just straight up Marines, especially with a Primaris focus?

Bad.
Primaris heavy? Even worse.

Or Tyranids?

If you like spending money, they're really good.


At the end of the day, Kill Team is a poorly balanced game just like its parent game, so cheaper is always better.

[Requizen]

Any of the Chaos Teams. Provided that you like Cultists, Tzaangors or Poxwalkers.

I do like Tzaangors, actually. Though it's a bit sad there's no two-hand weapon option so I can use K'charik from Underworlds.

Bad.
Primaris heavy? Even worse.

Pity, I'd like to have an excuse to have some Sci-fi Stormcast Space Marines sitting around.

Come to think of it, I think I have some Space Wolf models from Stormclaw sitting around, could always try it out I guess.

If you like spending money, they're really good.


At the end of the day, Kill Team is a poorly balanced game just like its parent game, so cheaper is always better.

I'm not opposed. I like my hobby and don't mind shelling out a bit for a fun painting and playing project. Granted it's not as terrifying a prospect here in the states, of course.

[Cheesegear]

I'm not opposed. I like my hobby and don't mind shelling out a bit for a fun painting and playing project.

Mostly it depends on how hard you actually want to go into Kill Team, and how hard you've read up on how an unlimited Roster should really work per the Rulebook.

If you say "Unlimited Roster means Unlimited Roster." then Teams like Orks and Tyranids suddenly get really good. However, you're pretty much required to buy everything in the army list in order to make that happen...Deathwatch are extremely OP in their ability to tailor.

If you put caps on it; Say, your Roster can only be 200 Points and/or 20 models (like what NOVA did), then, of course being able to take the maximum 20 models or the most points-efficient models (Plasma only explodes on an unmodified 1) becomes the only concern...And some Teams don't have point-efficient models that also let them hold Objectives.

As 40K would do later, and Sigmar has done for a while...Tabling your opponent doesn't mean you win. Winning the game requires playing the Mission. In which case more models on the board can help you do that. Teams where the minimum model is 10 Points each, and 11 for Specialists/Leaders, is a bad time.


What Kill Team definitely isn't, but it's marketed that way is an RPG.

[9mm]

Bad.
Primaris heavy? Even worse.

in kill team? Hard disagree. 4-5 intercessors with 1-2 reivers are deceptively strong.

[Brookshw]

Like I said, O1E would've been a counter-Turn 1 model.

If it's "big" things, sure, I agreed. I suppose that's a swmi-objective thing we could discuss, what 1st turn charges he is more effective against.

Probably more relevant than either our views is his blog, I'll be watching his next few posts to see how/why he decided on what he did (other than 200 fearless models that is)

[Cheesegear]

in kill team? Hard disagree. 4-5 intercessors with 1-2 reivers are deceptively strong.

Against what? Reivers belong in every Space Marine Roster because they're the only models that can almost barely Melee. Sure, it's an option. But compared to other Melee options in the game (Harlequins, Grey Knights, Tyranid Warriors, etc.) Reivers aren't even good.
I genuniely struggle to find value in Intercessors, compared to Tac Marines with Plasma Guns, or models with Heavy Bolters.

1 Damage weapons just aren't that good. That's not how the game is played. Against a full 15+ model Team? Cool. ~50% of your unsaved wounds don't do anything because Flesh Wounds still allow models to hold Objectives and/or move around the board.

If you - and your opponents - are treating Kill Team as "I bought one box of models and I'm done." Then Intercessors will do fine. Where would the casual Guard player even get 8 Plasma Guns from, anyway? If you're treating it like a competitive game, where the aim of the game is to win at it (as is the aim of most games), players will quickly find ways to tailor against you. With Primaris models being 15+ Points each, and un-customisable, you don't have a whole lot of margin for error.

[9mm]

If you - and your opponents - are treating Kill Team as "I bought one box of models and I'm done." Then Intercessors will do fine. Where would the casual Guard player even get 8 Plasma Guns from, anyway? If you're treating it like a competitive game, where the aim of the game is to win at it (as is the aim of most games), players will quickly find ways to tailor against you. With Primaris models being 15+ Points each, and un-customisable, you don't have a whole lot of margin for error.

I am 10-0 against 8 plasma gun guard, I was full primaris for 8 of those games, but please tell me more about how casual my meta is.

[JNAProductions]

Thoughts on the Genestealer Cult stuff?

[Cheesegear]

I am 10-0 against 8 plasma gun guard, I was full primaris for 8 of those games, but please tell me more about how casual my meta is.

...Not at all. That's amazing.
I just don't know how. Are you just getting into Melee on Turn 1 somehow to prevent them from shooting? I mean, a Veteran Reiver Sergeant on a 32mm base can tie up anywhere between 1 and 3 models...

I'm not saying you couldn't win a few games against Plasma Guard. But 10-0 is bizarre.
At some point, the dude should've realised that 8 Plasma Guns weren't working (for some reason), and tried to see what happens using 20 models on the board.

Thoughts on the Genestealer Cult stuff?

Power Creep is real.
Rules sell models.

Posted from phone.

[Turalisj]

Thoughts on the Genestealer Cult stuff?

You'll see them in the top 5 of every tournament until the next codex.

[Brookshw]

Thoughts on the Genestealer Cult stuff?

Looks to be a very strong initial showing, but let's see after it's errata'd.

[Mystic Muse]

Any advice on Cultist mini alternatives for my Thousand Sons army that look cool?

I know Tzaangors are better, but god that price.

[Avaris]

Any advice on Cultist mini alternatives for my Thousand Sons army that look cool?

I know Tzaangors are better, but god that price.

Depending on aesthetic you want, I feel most of the Necromunda gangs could be a good base. Especially Cawdor if you want hooded and sinister, or Delaque if you want more refined.

[Professor Gnoll]

Any advice on Cultist mini alternatives for my Thousand Sons army that look cool?

I know Tzaangors are better, but god that price.

Kairic Acolytes, perhaps? They might need some conversion with more 40k-appropriate weaponry, but they're almost half the price of Tzaangors and look pretty cool.

[Mystic Muse]

Kairic Acolytes, perhaps? They might need some conversion with more 40k-appropriate weaponry, but they're almost half the price of Tzaangors and look pretty cool.

That's kinda what I figured the answer was, just thought I'd ask.

[Turalisj]

Any advice on Cultist mini alternatives for my Thousand Sons army that look cool?

I know Tzaangors are better, but god that price.

Cultist bodies, skitarii ranger heads?

[Cheesegear]

Cultist bodies, skitarii ranger heads?

Cultists are snap-fit. You can't convert them without significant work.
That's why people ask for alternative models, not how to convert them.

[HoldTheLine31]

I would recommend the Frostgrave plastic cultist box. It's 20 hooded multipart cultist models for under 20 pounds. However those are fantsy setting models, so only mele weapons in the box. Still decent customizable models for relatively cheap mele cultists.

[Blackhawk748]

I would recommend the Frostgrave plastic cultist box. It's 20 hooded multipart cultist models for under 20 pounds. However those are fantsy setting models, so only mele weapons in the box. Still decent customizable models for relatively cheap mele cultists.

Find some random gun sprue for sale on Ebay?

[Destro_Yersul]

Or just pick up a couple handfuls of these.

[HoldTheLine31]

I've bought stuff from Anvil and it's great, used their shotgun kit for my IG vets and their heads/torso/equipment ranges are very useful, but it's not that cheap. You'd need 4 gun sets to convert the 20 cultists, puting you behinde another 12 pounds, it's basically 60% the way to another cultist box.

[Brookshw]

Thoughts on the Genestealer Cult stuff?

I take my earlier opinion back in part. Purestrains not getting a subfaction is silly, borderline stupid. The cult version of the AM vehicles not getting a subfaction either is also silly but not to the same extent. A lot of "meh" psychic powers. Aberrants & metamorphs will be good. Pretty sure I can't pack purestrains into chimeras is fine but disappointing, I chucked at the idea of them manning the lasgun arrays. A lot of this release feels geared to minimize the value of existing models and push the new characters. Not sure neophytes should be 5ppm.

[Cheesegear]

I take my earlier opinion back in part. Purestrains not getting a subfaction is silly, borderline stupid.

Only if they break Cults - which they almost definitely wont.

A lot of "meh" psychic powers.

No-one runs GSC for Psychic Powers.

Pretty sure I can't pack purestrains into chimeras is fine but disappointing

Good.
Purestrains should be Ambushing. Not riding around in Chimeras.

A lot of this release feels geared to minimize the value of existing models and push the new characters.

No ****. Welcome to 'New GW'.

Not sure neophytes should be 5ppm.

What should they be, then? 6?
If Cultists are 5, with Tide of Traitors being a thing, how much is a Guardsman that can Ambush?