Belkar's Final Destination

[Prinygod]

You're the one arguing that the character arc should be justified, dude. If you want to undercut your own position, be my guest, but I don't know what you expect to get out of it.

Again, we saw Roy's afterlife because it was important to the story. Things happened in it that were important to the story. Same for Durkon. Again, both came back with information they got in the afterlife that is (this far only foreshadowed to be) important to the overall story. And, again, it's incredibly unlikely any of those will be apply with Belkar's afterlife, largely because he's not coming back. Every time this argument pops up, it's always supported by little more than the proponent thinking it would be interesting. I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise so far this time as well.

My money is on the closest we'll ever get on that is the Protection from Evil amulet not hurting Belkar, if even that.

No I said it would show the conclusion of his arc. You were the one who said rich would only show the afterlife to justify the arc. Do you have anything to add other than strawmen.

By the way how would you know belkar's death isn't important to the storyline when
1. It hasn't happened yet
2. Large portion of the story so far has happened in the afterlife or in other planes With gods and demons alike

You brought up the argument, you have to support it, not I. Pull out your crystal ball and show your work.

[Peelee]

Well, if you put it like that, I'm in then.

Hooray! Pushing off fences is fun.

I place 100 quatloos on Belkar's quizzical look being about not tripping the big protection from evil glyph at the sanctum's front door. I read his qualitative alignment as shifting.

Bet taken!

No I said it would show the conclusion of his arc. You were the one who said rich would only show the afterlife to justify the arc.

Yeah and what better way to show that belkar's character arc mattered more than showing which after life he gets.

Oh hey look you arguing that it would justify the arc. Have fun with that, dude.

[Prinygod]

Hooray! Pushing off fences is fun.


Bet taken!



Oh hey look you arguing that it would justify the arc. Have fun with that, dude.

Oh hey another strawman rather than an actual argument.

[Fyraltari]

Hooray! Pushing off fences is fun.

Nah, it's work, plus I need that fence where it is so I practice fencing. I'll get off of it, still.

[Rrmcklin]

Thoughtful! Two comments:

The ambiguity I raised was as regards the OP wrt degree of evilness, not qualitatively evil in the nine alignments sense. In general, I have tended to view Belkar as CE within that framework. However...

Second point: I place 100 quatloos on Belkar's quizzical look being about not tripping the big protection from evil glyph at the sanctum's front door. I read his qualitative alignment as shifting.

Alignment shifting is not the same thing as having shifted. I don't know what has happened in the minutes since we've seen his charm active, that would mean he'd no longer affect other things that register Evil.

[KorvinStarmast]

In the end he will be asked to choose, and he ll choose the Abyss.... because he is a sexy shoeless God Of War.

that fits who Belkar is so far.

[Edreyn]

Why everyone is so sure that Belkar will die? It's never been said that he will die, only some hints about last breath or pensioner fund.
You know what I thought about when I read the phrase "will draw his last breath ever"? That there is weapon called "Last Breath Ever" and Belkar will unsheathe it. Same can be applied to all other hints.

[Peelee]

Why everyone is so sure that Belkar will die? It's never been said that he will die, only some hints about last breath or pensioner fund.
You know what I thought about when I read the phrase "will draw his last breath ever"? That there is weapon called "Last Breath Ever" and Belkar will unsheathe it. Same can be applied to all other hints.

And the Oracle would derive pleasure from all this because....?

[RatElemental]

Seen theories Belkar would get vamped and theories that Belkar would ascend to godhood, but a theory that Belkar would draw a weapon entitled "his last breath, ever" is a new one.

The theory about him turning into a god has more of a leg to stand on than that one, I think, and that's saying something.

[Peelee]

Seen theories Belkar would get vamped and theories that Belkar would ascend to godhood, but a theory that Belkar would draw a weapon entitled "his last breath, ever" is a new one.

Oh, to be young again. And also a robot.

Just wait until you hear the theory that he will draw a painting titled "his last breath ever."

[Edreyn]

he will draw a painting titled "his last breath ever."

This one is even better!

[Haluesen]

Why everyone is so sure that Belkar will die? It's never been said that he will die, only some hints about last breath or pensioner fund.
You know what I thought about when I read the phrase "will draw his last breath ever"? That there is weapon called "Last Breath Ever" and Belkar will unsheathe it. Same can be applied to all other hints.

I myself wouldn't say that I'm "sure" not until we see it in the comic. But I feel pretty confident that he will end up dying for real.

1. The other phrases the Oracle has said tied to the end of Belkar don't seem to point at anything like "drawing" a weapon, or an artwork. "Savor his last birthday cake" makes it seem like there won't be any more cake for him to enjoy. And that being just because of him not eating cake from that day forward sounds too anticlimactic.
2. Past prophesies did have strange ways that they worked out, like with "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" and "right four words at the right time for the wrong reasons". So it makes sense that we would have a more straightforward one at some point.
3. We already did the vampire thing with a major character. And Belkar, a god? Hahaha no. No one believes in him that much.

So I think it is likely that Belkar will truly die by the end of the in-comic year.

[Rrmcklin]

Also, hasn't Rich flat out said that, no, there isn't going to be some crazy loophole abuse and he's really just going to die and not come back?

I'm certain I've seen that, but I don't know where.

[Edreyn]

Any chance that there are all prophecies about Belkar's death assembled in one place?
Tracking through whole comic won't be easy.

And if we see them all together, maybe we can find a "loophole".

It's a comic after all, we can do it just for fun. For comparison, how many theories about MitD are out there?

[Fyraltari]

Any chance that there are all prophecies about Belkar's death assembled in one place?
Tracking through whole comic won't be easy.

And if we see them all together, maybe we can find a "loophole".

It's a comic after all, we can do it just for fun. For comparison, how many theories about MitD are out there?

Yeah but we know there’s a solution to that one. So far nobody seems to have found a Belkar-loophole and the only argument in favor of there being one is that it would be twist, which isn’t really convincing.

[Lange]

Alignment shifting is not the same thing as having shifted. I don't know what has happened in the minutes since we've seen his charm active, that would mean he'd no longer affect other things that register Evil.

I've got to wonder: what does actually cause him to register as evil? We've seen before that magical means to determine alignment are notoriously unreliable (Miko and the crown). Perhaps the magic of the runes (or the clasp) judge a person purely by their current state of mind. And in that regard, a lot has changed for Belkar just now: he went from justifying his cynical outlook (to Minrah) to trying to justify an empathetic one. So perhaps, in a mechanical sense, Belkar has indeed stopped being evil. It figures whoever gets to decide upon that in the afterlife will look at the sum of his deeds and say hell naaw, but that's precisely why these things include examination beyond a single casting of sense alignment.

[Synesthesy]

And the Oracle would derive pleasure from all this because....?

He is a ****? It's not the first time he did something against our heroes.

[hroþila]

He is a ****? It's not the first time he did something against our heroes.

I mean, yes, he is a [whatever that censored word actually was], but the point is, how does he derive pleasure from this? Belkar doesn't remember it, and Roy doesn't care. How does this prophecy harm our heroes in any way?

[Peelee]

He is a ****? It's not the first time he did something against our heroes.

I mean, yes, he is a [whatever that censored word actually was], but the point is, how does he derive pleasure from this? Belkar doesn't remember it, and Roy doesn't care. How does this prophecy harm our heroes in any way?

Exactly. It doesn't track. He's a ****, so what? Even when Belkar is still in the Sunken Valley and can remember it, it's not like he is put off at all. The Oracle may as well be getting off on blueberry pies for all the sense that makes.

Any chance that there are all prophecies about Belkar's death assembled in one place?
Tracking through whole comic won't be easy.

And if we see them all together, maybe we can find a "loophole".

I'll give you them all right now. He's not long for this world, he should savor his next birthday cake, he shouldn't bother finding his IRA, and he will draw his last breath ever before the end of the year. Simple.

[Edreyn]

I'll give you them all right now. He's not long for this world, he should savor his next birthday cake, he shouldn't bother finding his IRA, and he will draw his last breath ever before the end of the year. Simple.

Thanks. So, he never said the word "die".

I can't make up a joke about all of those right now, but I'll think of something.

[Peelee]

Thanks. So, he never said the word "die".

Since death can be reversed (see Roy and Durkon, for example), "last breath ever" seems much more permanent.

[Edreyn]

Something about savoring the cake.

From google English to English translation.

Definitions of savor

1) taste (good food or drink) and enjoy it completely.
"gourmets will want to savor our game specialties"
2) have a suggestion or trace of (something, especially something bad).
"their genuflections savored of superstition and popery"

Maybe the author wants us to think that phrase means that Belkar should enjoy his last cake in life, but instead the phrase means that Belkar should prepare for some kind of danger coming from the cake.

And I already said that "last breath ever" might not be literal.

[Dr.Zero]

Since the first time the protection from evil brooch was introduced, I stated his end was going to be: "Why it... doens't hurt me... anymore...? X_X" after some heroic sacrifice.

(Ok, I hoped for some kind of revenant version of him too, but aside that...)

Now I add more. He will be the only one to manage to live (after-live, actually) his dream exactly as he dreamed it: he will spend the afterlife cooking for Lord Shojo and Mr. Scruffy, finally being free to practice the only other skill set he has.

[Peelee]

Something about savoring the cake.

From google English to English translation.

Definitions of savor

1) taste (good food or drink) and enjoy it completely.
"gourmets will want to savor our game specialties"
2) have a suggestion or trace of (something, especially something bad).
"their genuflections savored of superstition and popery"

Maybe the author wants us to think that phrase means that Belkar should enjoy his last cake in life, but instead the phrase means that Belkar should prepare for some kind of danger coming from the cake.

And I already said that "last breath ever" might not be literal.

Yes, I'm aware of your theory. I just wanted to let you know why saying the word "die" wouldn't carry as much weight as you think. Also, if you want to consider every prophecy to refer to different and unrelated things, we're back to "why would the Oracle derive pleasure from all this?" Again, Belkar isn't perturbed when he hears it, forgets when he leaves the SV, and Roy doesn't particularly care.

[hroþila]

Exactly. It doesn't track. He's a ****, so what? Even when Belkar is still in the Sunken Valley and can remember it, it's not like he is put off at all. The Oracle may as well be getting off on blueberry pies for all the sense that makes.

Funnily enough, I could kinda sorta see a way the prophecy would help the Order: it helps Roy rationalize not dealing with Belkar in a more active and direct way, which might be important if Belkar ends up being crucial to defeat Xykon.

[Kish]

Why everyone is so sure that Belkar will die? It's never been said that he will die, only some hints about last breath or pensioner fund.
You know what I thought about when I read the phrase "will draw his last breath ever"? That there is weapon called "Last Breath Ever" and Belkar will unsheathe it. Same can be applied to all other hints.

The Oracle also said that what he was about to say was the same as he'd said previously. So it doesn't explain what's in the comic if you find four separate, unrelated dodges that "Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath ever," "he's not long for the world," "the halfling shouldn't bother funding his IRA," and "he should savor his next birthday cake" point to--they'd all need to point to the same dodge.

[Brumagris]

What are the shots of reincarnation for Belkar?

He is currently undergoing alignment change (I wont discuss whether he is still evil or not), he may die in a climatic battle/act of heroism which would truncate his evolution. I dont know in D&D mechanics, but I would see plausible that a thankful god decides to give him a second chance in the world as a complete new person, so he gets a true chance to finalize his alignment change. The prophecy does not discard this, does it?

[Peelee]

What are the shots of reincarnation for Belkar?

He is currently undergoing alignment change (I wont discuss whether he is still evil or not), he may die in a climatic battle/act of heroism which would truncate his evolution. I dont know in D&D mechanics, but I would see plausible that a thankful god decides to give him a second chance in the world as a complete new person, so he gets a true chance to finalize his alignment change. The prophecy does not discard this, does it?

I would agree that a completely different person would not be Belkar, yes. I fail to see the appeal in having him be replaced by a completely different person, of course.

[RatElemental]

I would agree that a completely different person would not be Belkar, yes. I fail to see the appeal in having him be replaced by a completely different person, of course.

This is DND we're talking about where there actually is a spell that does exactly this. It'd be a different body, but the same soul. Whether or not that constitutes a "completely different person" is its own debate.

[Kish]

There's never been any indication that reincarnation is a thing that can happen in the OotS universe, other than the kind caused by a druid spell which would leave Belkar, whatever his species, still Belkar. It's not one of the possibilities Roy mentioned in panel 8.