Huntmaster cavalier build help(pathfinder)

[ThatBoostedNoob]

So I've checked around and most people like the idea of trip and reach weapons for this archtype. I was hoping to see what are good options for a ranged huntmaster. I like the idea of shooting from range while the hounds run the enemy down and chew them up. Im open to suggestions and nothing is set in stone for me. Maybe I'm better suited with ranger/hunter. I just like this archetype because it's no magic/no nature theme. My specific questions are the following:
1. What order is best for this ranged huntmaster concept?
2. Should I just focus on ranged feats or will that make my hounds useless?
3.Am I better off with a different class entirely for this build?

I think that covers the basics. Thanks in advance for build suggestions.

[Geddy2112]

Huntsmaster cavalier does not work so well with range because it won't stack with luring cavalier, which would allow you to challenge at range. It would be better to be a spellless ranger archetype or hunter but it can work.

You still want ranged feats if you are going to be ranged, just know the challenge is really only to buff your pets. Your tactician feats and their feats are fine to buff them, you don't need many dedicated specifically to them.

For orders, order of the reins is pretty bonkers on multiple animals as it buffs all of your pets in addition to the standard challenge bonus. Order of the green is decent and thematic as is order of the beast to shapeshift your pets into something else. The other order of the beast gives trample to your pets but otherwise is more for melee builds.

[ThatBoostedNoob]

Thank you. Order of the reins is pretty awesome. It just says "unmounted, nonhostile, animals"... so that's great.

[Psyren]

Huntmaster is... not great. You get multiple companions, but you must divide your effective druid level among them, which essentially means they will be extremely weak (if you divide them evenly) or you'll have one strong-ish companion (if you favor that one) and an assortment of extremely weak ones - in which case, why didn't you just stick with one companion in the first place? This is a problem with nearly all the "multiple companion" archetypes, such as Beastmaster Ranger and Pack Lord Druid.

You can beat the system for a time with Boon Companion depending on when your campaign is set to end; this feat gives one of your companions 4 bonus effective druid levels, and can be taken once for each companion you have. So for example, if you're a Huntmaster 8, you'll have 8 levels to spread among your companions, e.g. 4 each if you have 2 dogs, which at level 4 each puts them at a heavy disadvantage in most CR 8 encounters even with your Challenge to help out. But if you take 2 instances of boon companion, you'll have two level 8 animal companions, and at level 10 you'll have two level 9 companions, giving them much better odds of contributing. They start to fall behind again of course, but not as drastically as they would be without the feat, and if your campaign doesn't go much past 8 you will get all of the benefits with few drawbacks other than the feats spent.

[Geddy2112]

Order of the reins can get pretty bonkers when you hit level 8 and it is only a DC10 to handle a theoritically infinite army of animals to attack something.

My favorite tactic with this is chicken wall of death Legend of Zelda style. While not dangerous, chickens are 1gp a pop, and can swarm fly. Another option is to go Willard/Ben with an army of rats, rats only costing 1cp a pop. Kick it up a notch, and go with goats. Your dogs in the pack are the herding animals.

If you really wanna overclock the build, go halfling with undersized mount feat, allowing you to ride your dog and kite at range. Halfling also allows you to control Diminutive animals, and if they are nonhostile you can do some crazy swarm control. For nonhostile animals, this ability is wild empathy on steroids-you can turn random animals into warriors, or simply make them run off.

[Psyren]

Order of the reins can get pretty bonkers when you hit level 8 and it is only a DC10 to handle a theoritically infinite army of animals to attack something.

My favorite tactic with this is chicken wall of death Legend of Zelda style. While not dangerous, chickens are 1gp a pop, and can swarm fly. Another option is to go Willard/Ben with an army of rats, rats only costing 1cp a pop. Kick it up a notch, and go with goats. Your dogs in the pack are the herding animals.

Not to burst your bubble, but It's not nearly as degenerate as it looks:

"At 2nd level, the cavalier can direct multiple animals with one forceful command. The cavalier can handle a number of nonhostile, riderless animals equal to his cavalier level with a single use of the Handle Animal skill, so long as the commanded animals can see or hear the cavalier."

This requires a move action (as stated later in the ability) since none of these animals have Link, and a full-round action if you're pushing them - so at low levels you'll only be getting a handful of animals per round, and doing so at the cost of your own DPR. While you could theoretically handle a horde with this at higher levels, the kind of threats you'd be facing would make such a strategy less ideal. Sending a dozen chickens/cows/horses at even a juvenile dragon for example might do little more than distract it.

[Geddy2112]

Not to burst your bubble, but It's not nearly as degenerate as it looks:
"At 2nd level, the cavalier can direct multiple animals with one forceful command. The cavalier can handle a number of nonhostile, riderless animals equal to his cavalier level with a single use of the Handle Animal skill, so long as the commanded animals can see or hear the cavalier."

My reading comprehension went out then window when I got an idea and ran with it, although I am glad it is not as bonkers as I thought. Still, an interesting novel trick and being able to control animals in this manner has plenty of uses in and out of combat.

[ThatBoostedNoob]

This is all really helpful. Thank you. I understand this is an underwhelming archetype. I just like the theme. I will be sure to check out Ranger and Hunter. This did answer my questions. Was hoping to go for outflank and other stuff to boost them up. Magic is probably the way to go though. This will still be fun though.

[Psyren]

My reading comprehension went out then window when I got an idea and ran with it, although I am glad it is not as bonkers as I thought. Still, an interesting novel trick and being able to control animals in this manner has plenty of uses in and out of combat.

Certainly - but speaking personally, I'd rather handle 1-2 strong animals than a gaggle of mediocre ones.

Generally I find that these "multiple companion" archetypes, if they are used at all, are best used to get a primary companion that gets most of the progression (for combat) and a utility companion, like a raven or monkey for scouting/sneaking/etc. Of course, magic is even more helpful there, which goes against what the OP is after.

This is all really helpful. Thank you. I understand this is an underwhelming archetype. I just like the theme. I will be sure to check out Ranger and Hunter. This did answer my questions. Was hoping to go for outflank and other stuff to boost them up. Magic is probably the way to go though. This will still be fun though.

For a spell-less ranger I would recommend the Skirmisher archetype, which gives your animal companion(s) a number of bonuses as swift and free actions. Divine Marksman gives you a ton of damage as well (but little else.)

[ThatBoostedNoob]

All questions answered. Thank you for input :)