Discovery Season 2

[Cikomyr]

I feel that overall season two has been better than season one, but the last two episodes has been pretty weak in my opinion. There were good things (notably the interactions between the crew) but the overarching plot is pretty nonsensical at the moment.

Spoiler

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Especially the let's capture Red Angel plan, which only worked by merit of everyone being absolutely wrong about an important detail. As they kept working on it I kept being more and more annoyed by the complete lack of any form of logic or consequence analysis when it came to putting it into practice. It annoyed me quite a bit.

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I'm also getting a bit concerned about the series creators adherence to the tech/knowledge the federation should have at this point. I'm not talking about how that tech is presented on screen, I'm fine with things looking more modern than they did in TOS. However: the spore drive, holograms and now semi-sentient computers (Control) and miniaturized time travel tech. I know they're trying to dance around it, but there's no way the federation should have access to those things in the TOS era. There's episodes in the other shows dealing with the problems with the introductions of just those things after all. It bugs me that it's so central in this show.

I keep wondering if the show runners actually wanted to place things post-DS9 but were forced by CBS to put it in the TOS era.

I don't mind. Showrunners gotta do what they wanna do, give us feelings of wonders for the techno world, adventure, etc..

If showrunners had to genuinely limit themselves to tech levels and events we heard about, it'd get boring fast. So just go with "we ain't seen everything from that universe at that time" and roll with the punches.

[GloatingSwine]

The Federation has what amount to full-on holodecks in TAS, so having holographic communications shouldn't be out of their reach.

[HMS Invincible]

I'll say one thing, they are quite openly recycling their actors. I wasn't expecting Michelle, Tyler, and Ariaim to both come back across both seasons. Makes you wonder why it was so hard to bring back the doctor.

[Psyren]

I'll say one thing, they are quite openly recycling their actors. I wasn't expecting Michelle, Tyler, and Ariaim to both come back across both seasons. Makes you wonder why it was so hard to bring back the doctor.

To their credit, they did bring him back. Most shows that bury their gays throw away the shovel and don't even glance behind.

We also started rewatching Stranger Things and the whole #JusticeForBarb movement is feeling fresh again

[factotum]

Just watched the episode, and I agree entirely about the illogical-ness of their plan--it's like the screenwriter worked backward from the end in order to set everything up just so, without considering what the actual reactions of everyone at each point along the way would be.

[Cikomyr]

Just watched the episode, and I agree entirely about the illogical-ness of their plan--it's like the screenwriter worked backward from the end in order to set everything up just so, without considering what the actual reactions of everyone at each point along the way would be.

Spock to the rescue!

BTW, still confused how they got Michael's brainscan if it wasn't her.

I still loved the scene between Spock and Michael

[factotum]

BTW, still confused how they got Michael's brainscan if it wasn't her.

My guess? Because the scan was a trap intended to make them do exactly what they did. After all, they explicitly said in the episode that the Red Angel has some sort of field that they couldn't scan or mind-meld through, so how on earth did anyone get a scan that matches Michael? (Another question nobody in the episode asked, thinking about it).

[Psyren]

BTW, still confused how they got Michael's brainscan if it wasn't her.

Do we know if it was a brainscan specifically? They had data from Airiam's head that said it was Michael, but that could have been something like DNA too, thus explaining the mixup.

[JadedDM]

I believe the exact phrase they used was "bio-neural signature." Which sounds like a brain scan to me, but it could also be jargon.

[Psyren]

I believe the exact phrase they used was "bio-neural signature." Which sounds like a brain scan to me, but it could also be jargon.

Maybe she and her mom think alike? Especially from the perspective of a crazy AI, who we have no reason to believe would be an expert at reading humans anyway.

[factotum]

Maybe she and her mom think alike? Especially from the perspective of a crazy AI, who we have no reason to believe would be an expert at reading humans anyway.

I find it hard to believe that this "bio-neural signature" is so precisely matched to a person that the doctor could be 100% certain it was Michael, and yet would also be a match for one of their parents.

I'm wondering--just how many times in the first season was Michael in sufficient danger you'd have expected the Red Angel to show up?

[HMS Invincible]

I find it hard to believe that this "bio-neural signature" is so precisely matched to a person that the doctor could be 100% certain it was Michael, and yet would also be a match for one of their parents.

I'm wondering--just how many times in the first season was Michael in sufficient danger you'd have expected the Red Angel to show up?

Doesn't that require the killing your own grand father clause? Like the angel can just read ahead to see if she dies. If she pulls through, she doesn't show up. Spock realized this and decided that killing Michael would force the angels hand.

[factotum]

Doesn't that require the killing your own grand father clause? Like the angel can just read ahead to see if she dies. If she pulls through, she doesn't show up. Spock realized this and decided that killing Michael would force the angels hand.

I do hope we're going to get an explanation of why the Red Angel suit--which we've been told is actually old Starfleet tech developed by Section 31--was able to bring Michael back from a situation that the doctor said he wouldn't be able to save her from...

[Cikomyr]

I do hope we're going to get an explanation of why the Red Angel suit--which we've been told is actually old Starfleet tech developed by Section 31--was able to bring Michael back from a situation that the doctor said he wouldn't be able to save her from...

Time crystals :-D

[Cikomyr]

I haven't had the inclination to discuss the latest episodes because while the pacing, character development, etc.. Is still very good, I feel the serialized storyline of the past weeks make me wish to see the complete picture before discussing it further.

However, the last episode felt much more self contained and adventure-ey than the ones before. I liked it. I liked the story in the S31 ship, and I realllllly like Pike's story.

Somehow, knowing that he willingly made his choice of a future makes me feel.. Better.

[Psyren]

I haven't had the inclination to discuss the latest episodes because while the pacing, character development, etc.. Is still very good, I feel the serialized storyline of the past weeks make me wish to see the complete picture before discussing it further.

Yeah same. Now that the mini-arc regarding Spock has been more or less resolved (he is both crew and family again) I need to see the whole thing before discussing.

Speaking of Spock, his no-selling of that broken arm was pretty badass is that a Vulcan thing in general?

There is a theory that what we're witnessing with Control's genocidal nanites is the birth of the Borg; I suppose that one will also take time to examine in detail.

[Cikomyr]

I have to be honest, the recall of Tilley meeting a princess at the start of today's episode really threw me and the GF in a puzzle. We stopped the episode immediately and spent 10 minutes looking through all other episodes to see if we hadn't missed one.

Turns out we skipped the Short Trek vids. Damn.

Overall, a very solid and emotional episode. Everyone is crying.

[Psyren]

Overall, a very solid and emotional episode. Everyone is crying.

I find it pretty hard to believe in the emotional stakes myself. They're not killing off Burnham, Tilley or Saru, or they don't have a show. We might lose another bridge crew member, and I think the Enterprise is FUBAR so we end up with Kirk et al at some point.

At worst we will get a timeskip, where the entire Discovery crew goes to the future for a season or something. Especially with Stamets' whole "I'm done with starships" line, something has to happen for him to be forced to stay on the starship.

The goodbye messages from the crew were heartwarming though.

[Cikomyr]

I find it pretty hard to believe in the emotional stakes myself. They're not killing off Burnham, Tilley or Saru, or they don't have a show. We might lose another bridge crew member, and I think the Enterprise is FUBAR so we end up with Kirk et al at some point.

At worst we will get a timeskip, where the entire Discovery crew goes to the future for a season or something. Especially with Stamets' whole "I'm done with starships" line, something has to happen for him to be forced to stay on the starship.

The goodbye messages from the crew were heartwarming though.

The goodbye scenes were really good.

I also think Disco will end up stuck in the future. Which would be a very interesting plot for season 3. Sort of a Voyager in TIME

[Pippa the Pixie]

I'm wondering--just how many times in the first season was Michael in sufficient danger you'd have expected the Red Angel to show up?

Oh...like the whole season. It's what you get with bad writers and bad showrunners.

There is a theory that what we're witnessing with Control's genocidal nanites is the birth of the Borg; I suppose that one will also take time to examine in detail.

I hope not.

They don't need to make EVERYTHING in the universe the fault of the humans. There is nothing wrong with some aliens making the Borg. Officaly the Borg have been around sinse the 15th century.

Though it would be a nice touch if the ''control" program slipped it's way to Dr. Daystrum's M-1 file....

Overall, a very solid and emotional episode. Everyone is crying.

The problem is we don't know the characters. The show has not taken enough time to show them off. There has been WAY too much focus on Burnum

This is the problem with not having the bridge crew as main, regular characters. And adding extra main characters like Pike and Spock that just waste time.

I also think Disco will end up stuck in the future. Which would be a very interesting plot for season 3. Sort of a Voyager in TIME

I just hope the erase the Disco timeline and get rid off all this bad stuff.

Maybe season three can be a reset back to the start of season 1....but with no dumb Klingon war. Just have the Shen Zu decomissined, and Burnarm become captain of Discovery.


Only one epsiode left!

[HMS Invincible]

Did anyone watch the Short Treks? Calypso is my favorite, even though Mudd is as funny as ever. I wasn't expecting the stowaway to be in the main series though.

[Pippa the Pixie]

Well....season two is over.

Spoiler: Season Two

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*I do like serialized stories, but I really hated the focus on Burnum with her as the super special snowflake of the Federation and the WHOLE GALAXY just exists just to spin around her. I really wish Discovery was more an ensemble show, with more characters other then Just Burnum.

*I really don't like that we don't know the crew of the ship...and for that matter that they are not even Main Characters. Compared to most other shows, we never got to know all them ''whoever they are" characters. Ho no Robo Lady died? Yea...her...she was in..er...two episodes and I think she said ''yes sir" once.

*This is part of the bigger problem that the show is not really about the starship Discovery......it's the Burnum Soap Opera. The show wastes HUGE amounts of time with her mom and dad and brother and mom and herself over and over again. Eh, it's an OK story....but it's NOT the story of the USS Discovery and her crew.

*They use Section 31...because it's ''cool''...and then ruin it. And the worst part is.....THIS WOULD HAVE MADE A MUCH BETTER STORY then the crappy Burnum soap opera.

*The fact that they have to add so many characters that are NOT part of the Discovery crew....well, tells you where the focus is.

*Pike and..sigh ''Number One" were both good characters.....too bad they won't make Star Trek Enterprise the Pike Years or something like that. But on Discovery they just push out the Discovery crew.

*Wow....was that super space battle ending super cool just like STAR WARS! Yup.....

[Cikomyr]

You can't even be bothered to spell the main character's name right.

[ImperiousLeader]

The season finale was so over the top, I just had to roll with it. Like the first season, there were ups and downs, but overall, I continue to enjoy Discovery. I'm of two minds over the change at the end of the season, it'll be interesting to see what happens next season.

[factotum]

You can't even be bothered to spell the main character's name right.

How does that invalidate her criticism, out of interest?

[JadedDM]

What's interesting to me is...

Spoiler: Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2

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That by going 900 years into the future, they are in completely new territory now. That doesn't just put them centuries ahead of Voyager, and even Star Trek Online, but also any of the Temporal Cold War and Daniels stuff from Enterprise. They are now completely unhindered by any canon of any kind.

[GloatingSwine]

What's interesting to me is...

Spoiler: Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2

Show

That by going 900 years into the future, they are in completely new territory now. That doesn't just put them centuries ahead of Voyager, and even Star Trek Online, but also any of the Temporal War and Daniels stuff from Enterprise. They are now completely unhindered by any canon of any kind.

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Star Trek has always been unhindered by canon, the fans just never realised that was how it worked.

But really they should always have gone forwards instead of backwards. I like Discovery more than most, but would have much preferred they make a series post-Voyager than pre-TOS.

[Cikomyr]

How does that invalidate her criticism, out of interest?

Star Trek is really bad series. The captain Kirq is a silly character that is over the top. The next series is just as bad with a baldie named Pickherd.

Not even bothering to learn the name of what you are discussing does not make a case that you put much thought unto your thoughts.

[factotum]

Not even bothering to learn the name of what you are discussing does not make a case that you put much thought unto your thoughts.

Or it might be making the case that you're so disappointed with the show after watching it that you can't be bothered to do the research? I mean, I can't help but notice that you're not trying to actually argue the points she made, you chose to just criticise her spelling of Burnham's name and be done with it, which isn't really showing a great deal of effort on your own behalf, now is it?

[Androgeus]

Star Trek has always been unhindered by canon, the fans just never realised that was how it worked.

Fandoms have always had a hard time realising that canon is really just a marketing tool and not a mark of quality