OOTS #1152 - The Discussion Thread

[Ironsmith]

If Durkon could murder fer a decent pint, he would list the sizes in descending order, as murdering for a smaller amount is more intense. Durkon could murder a decent pint as in he could down it very quickly and eagerly; thus he lists sizes in ascending order.

Good means of resolving it in your head. Either way, the base message is the same: "beer, YES, please".

[Ruck]

The book is clearly far from over

Odd statement given the climax has already happened and we're over 200 strips into the current book.

Forget Hurak. What's weird is that if you take 305 and 375 at face value, Sigdi never told Durkon that his grandfather had died.

Eh, Sigdi could have told Durkon, and Rubyrock just didn't know that.

Odd expectation, since we know belief is what matters there.

I like the thought of Tenrin just carrying Sigdi's arm around in Valhalla because he believes it belongs to him now.

[Peelee]

I like the thought of Tenrin just carrying Sigdi's arm around in Valhalla because he believes it belongs to him now.

Yeah, I kind of wanted to address that but it seemed kind of weirdly macabre.

[Dion]

Yeah, I kind of wanted to address that but it seemed kind of weirdly macabre.

In my own personal head cannon, the only reason Durkon didn’t get to meet his dad is because The Giant couldn’t figure out how to draw Sigdi holding his hand.

[Fyraltari]

Eh, Sigdi could have told Durkon, and Rubyrock just didn't know that.

But the Durkon wouldn't say he wanted to see his Ma and grandpappy like that.

[Ruck]

But the Durkon wouldn't say he wanted to see his Ma and grandpappy like that.

Ahh, I guess I should have read closer before answering.

[Snails]

"Ah, so you're Belkar? You're a lot taller than I expected."

:
:

That would actually be a bit of a burn, but Belkar would probably interpret as a compliment.

[Ironsmith]

That would actually be a bit of a burn, but Belkar would probably interpret as a compliment.

Nah, he knows he is/was a lil crap. He'd probably laugh harder than anyone.

[understatement]

Considering the other books ended shortly after the climax (1, 4, 5) or cliffhanger (2, 3) and the climax with Durkula is pretty much resolved, what are you guys' theories on how the book could wrap up?

(I'm thinking Lien and O-chul sitting on the snowbank, realizing that Team Evil hasn't left the dungeon in several hours -- cut to glimpses of the monster mess they left behind and trail them to standing before the final Gate. Since the ritual takes a few weeks, it's ample time for the Order reach Kraagor's.)

(Or, it could end with Durkon using one of his mama-special Sendings to RC, although I dunno about the latter's recognition the former).

And can the Order take out the Exarch and Co easily? Or will the same thing happen as it did in the previous vampire battle?

[Anitar]

And can the Order take out the Exarch and Co easily? Or will the same thing happen as it did in the previous vampire battle?

That depends, in part, on the important details about the council chamber that Durkon failed to tell them about.

[Basement Cat]

Considering the other books ended shortly after the climax (1, 4, 5) or cliffhanger (2, 3) and the climax with Durkula is pretty much resolved, what are you guys' theories on how the book could wrap up?

(I'm thinking Lien and O-chul sitting on the snowbank, realizing that Team Evil hasn't left the dungeon in several hours -- cut to glimpses of the monster mess they left behind and trail them to standing before the final Gate. Since the ritual takes a few weeks, it's ample time for the Order reach Kraagor's.)

(Or, it could end with Durkon using one of his mama-special Sendings to RC, although I dunno about the latter's recognition the former).

And can the Order take out the Exarch and Co easily? Or will the same thing happen as it did in the previous vampire battle?

I can't see this book ending before the threat to the Dwarven lands is settled. We have to see the Hilgya/Kudzu/Durkon/Mom thing dealt with. We need to see the Godsmoot threat of World destruction being dealt with one way or another: The vote will be decided, after all, once the dwarf Demi-god consults w/ the Elders and Chiefs (or whomever).

I figure after the Vote is dealt with we'll see a closing scene involving Xykon and troupe and maybe something involving Elan's plan to take down his father's Empire (possibly bringing in more of "Daddy's" old adventuring team who cannot be pleased with Malak's death) all leading up to the next book.

[factotum]

But the Durkon wouldn't say he wanted to see his Ma and grandpappy like that.

Barring unusual circumstances we've heard nothing about, Durkon would have two grandfathers, right? One could have died and the other still be alive.

[Fyraltari]

Barring unusual circumstances we've heard nothing about, Durkon would have two grandfathers, right? One could have died and the other still be alive.

I only see one.

[factotum]

You mean, on all those panels that very clearly don't show all the people present?

[Fyraltari]

You mean, on all those panels that very clearly don't show all the people present?

Another grandparent would be sitting next to Sigdi on the front row, no?

[BaronOfHell]

All of it. It's only a fourth level spell and I'm pretty sure Durkon has been 7th level or higher since the very first comic.

Thank you!

I wonder how long it took for Durkon to learn the spell after his exile. I imagine it did make things easier for him to endure from that point on, but on the other hand dwarves are sometimes very different from humans.

[Sloanzilla]

I've been trying to imagine some of Durkon's sendings at various points in the adventure.

"Ma, Roy died and Azure City fell. On boat with Elan and V. These paladins seem nice. Still no beer. Dodge training works on water trolls."

"Ma, cast windwalk and dinnae like it. Found Belkar, Hayley and Roy's body. Group back together now. Random 'Och" goes here. Love you."

[TheNecrocomicon]

Odd statement given the climax has already happened and we're over 200 strips into the current book.

Something we all assume is the climax has now happened. That's nothing truly conclusive. Family drama will probably ensue with Durkon, Sigdi, Hilgya and Kudzu; the ex-Exarch and his spawn still need to be defeated; the Council vote still needs to happen; the result still needs to be conveyed to the Godsmoot which then needs to wrap up; probably another late-book sojourn (like Haley breaking her dad out of prison in the last book); some "oh crap"-level cliffhanger regarding Team Evil, etc. -- I'm easily seeing another couple of years IRL until the book ends.

Considering the other books ended shortly after the climax (1, 4, 5) or cliffhanger (2, 3) and the climax with Durkula is pretty much resolved, what are you guys' theories on how the book could wrap up? [...] And can the Order take out the Exarch and Co easily? Or will the same thing happen as it did in the previous vampire battle?

That depends, in part, on the important details about the council chamber that Durkon failed to tell them about.

This. The Order haven't really conclusively solved any of the issues that led to them getting dominated by Lurkon et al. just a short time ago. I mean, yes, they have Durkon himself back, but he's now diminished thanks to Hilgya's selfishness. The ex-Exarch might even now outdo Durkon for power in combat, since the former still has all his levels and the various boons of being a vampire.

I can't see this book ending before the threat to the Dwarven lands is settled. We have to see the Hilgya/Kudzu/Durkon/Mom thing dealt with. We need to see the Godsmoot threat of World destruction being dealt with one way or another: The vote will be decided, after all, once the dwarf Demi-god consults w/ the Elders and Chiefs (or whomever).

I figure after the Vote is dealt with we'll see a closing scene involving Xykon and troupe and maybe something involving Elan's plan to take down his father's Empire (possibly bringing in more of "Daddy's" old adventuring team who cannot be pleased with Malak's death) all leading up to the next book.

Oh, and there's the not-so-small matter of Belkar's prophesied cessation of breathing forever "before the end of the year" -- though considering that the last week in-universe took something like six years IRL, that may or may not end up in this book at all.

[Verappo]

I've been trying to imagine some of Durkon's sendings at various points in the adventure.

"Ma, Roy died and Azure City fell. On boat with Elan and V. These paladins seem nice. Still no beer. Dodge training works on water trolls."

"Ma, cast windwalk and dinnae like it. Found Belkar, Hayley and Roy's body. Group back together now. Random 'Och" goes here. Love you."

Recapping more than a thousand comic strips of plot in 25 words-long weekly excerpts takes skill, Durkon might have a future as a writer of book cover blurbs if everything goes wrong with the Thor thing.

Oh wow now I'm thinking what his last message before Malack killed him was:

"Ma, we met Elan's long-lost dad in the western continent. Roy fought in a coliseum. Oh, also I made a new friend! Love you."

[anonynos]

Another grandparent would be sitting next to Sigdi on the front row, no?

Maybe! I mean, the rest of that row seems to be priests so it may be they only make room for the "parents" but since his dad was dead they allowed one other person there. There is very clearly another elderly relative a few rows back so it's hard to know honestly.

[Fyraltari]

Maybe! I mean, the rest of that row seems to be priests so it may be they only make room for the "parents" but since his dad was dead they allowed one other person there. There is very clearly another elderly relative a few rows back so it's hard to know honestly.

You mean Uncle Kandro?

He and Durkon aren't actually related.

[Ruck]

Something we all assume is the climax has now happened.

The main character of the book defeating the main villain of the book is generally a pretty solid event to surmise as the climax. You, on the other hand, simply asserted that the book was "clearly far from over."

That's nothing truly conclusive. Family drama will probably ensue with Durkon, Sigdi, Hilgya and Kudzu; the ex-Exarch and his spawn still need to be defeated; the Council vote still needs to happen; the result still needs to be conveyed to the Godsmoot which then needs to wrap up; probably another late-book sojourn (like Haley breaking her dad out of prison in the last book); some "oh crap"-level cliffhanger regarding Team Evil, etc. -- I'm easily seeing another couple of years IRL until the book ends.

That could all happen in like 20 strips, and some of it doesn't need to be shown. (For example, if/when the Order defeats the Ex-Exarch and the Dwarven Council of Clans votes to save the world, we're probably not going to cut to the godsmoot and get their wrap-it-up procedure.)

Oh, and there's the not-so-small matter of Belkar's prophesied cessation of breathing forever "before the end of the year" -- though considering that the last week in-universe took something like six years IRL, that may or may not end up in this book at all.

I'll bet a substantial amount of money that doesn't happen this book.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That could all happen in like 20 strips, and some of it doesn't need to be shown. (For example, if/when the Order defeats the Ex-Exarch and the Dwarven Council of Clans votes to save the world, we're probably not going to cut to the godsmoot and get their wrap-it-up procedure.)

I agree with you that I think most of the wrap up would happen pretty quickly, but I actually think that would we will see the Godsmoot at least one more time, at the very least to see the last vote go through and maybe get a little closure from Veldrina.

[Jasdoif]

I agree with you that I think most of the wrap up would happen pretty quickly, but I actually think that would we will see the Godsmoot at least one more time, at the very least to see the last vote go through and maybe get a little closure from Veldrina.

Veldrina's supposed to contact Roy if the world is saved spared, so I'm not so sure we'll see the Godsmoot's wrap-up on-panel.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Spoiler: Sigdi and her Grandkid

Show

I can't imagine Sigdi knows about Durkon's "dwarf-on-dwarf action" from back in the day, or that she will approve of it once she finds out.

I'd imagine she'd mostly be annoyed Durkon didn't follow up and make sure Hilgya was fine. And that he didn't tell her about the potential grandbaby because he was embarrassed over a little one-night stand.

"vs."? Hilgya is about to introduce Sigdi to her grandson.

Yeah, but do you think Sigdi is going to be thrilled that her grandson is going to be in the custody of a cleric of Loki who doesn't want to see her son? Sigdi's definitely going to want custody. Where are the lawyers when you need them..?
(I joke, I joke)

I think Sigdi would do a lot better at talking with Hilgya, personally, due to having more experience with, y'know, being a mom.

Also, less baggage.

Also, I wonder if the soldier who gave her the chest of treasure was a Firehelm - he certainly looked like one, so maybe Hilgya's at least heard of Sigdi in passing. Maybe.

Ooh, that would be neat. It does make me wonder if the clan Hilgya was married into is one we'll hear from again, though...

So what form could that take? Seems like the first likely point of complication is Hilgya encountering Sigdi. Sigdi might end up saying something to Hilgya that Hilgya interprets as scolding or talking-down to her. Hilgya still has a hair-trigger temper, minimal self-control, no tolerance for criticism, and an enduring desire to cause pain to Durkon -- up to and including casual murder.

Hilgya isn't pissed enough at Durkon to let the murder stick, though. There's no way she'd murder Sigdi just to hurt Durkon; if that was a possibility, she would have just left him dead.
I don't see Sigdi-murder as being likely, but if it happens, it'll be largely her own fault.

Spoiler: Misc. Familial Relations

Show

In case there was any question that Durkon has the strongest good alignment in the party, he's the only one to actually make an attempt to call his mother.

Roy and Haley don't have easy access to their mothers (neither has speak with dead or their parents' corpse handy), and Elan is probably holding off in case he'd accidentally spoil some kind of dramatic reveal.

Where is vaarsuvius in this strip? he was the one who could have benefited most from sending to family

What, you want to rub their face in it? Geez, and I thought the King of Nowhere seemed like a decent guy.

Maybe Durkon just wanted to chat about nice things, as opposed to speaking ill of high priests.

Seems likely to me. It fits Sigdi's personality well, and explains why Durkon hadn't heard of several sad things that happened.

For all we know Tenrin is holding her hand in Valhalla, the same way Roy’s grandpa held his sword in the afterlife.

And, in those circumstance, I actually would expect it to dissolve in Valhalla if it’s regenerated here.

Why? Greenhilt Senior's sword didn't dissolve when Roy grabbed it. Tenrin and Sigdi are still going to be thinking of Sigdi's first arm, still holding Tenrin's hand.
...Also, I'm pretty sure the Powers That Be of the LG afterlife would frown on people carrying around severed limbs.

Spoiler: The plot and other minor things

Show

What are the different rings made of in the council chamber? Will we find out before the encounter, or will Rich wait to tell us the effects?

I suspect that they're made of grumpy old dwarves, each with their own set of rules. Magic items in use don't seem like a first-thing-to-explain type of thing.

...and maybe something involving Elan's plan to take down his father's Empire (possibly bringing in more of "Daddy's" old adventuring team who cannot be pleased with Malak's death)...

1. Half of Tarquin's surviving team saw Tarquin take vengeance on Nale himself.
2. That storyline's wrapped up. A climactic confrontation between father and son (or their respective teams) is exactly what Tarquin wants, and what he was explicitly denied the last time we saw him.

The main character of the book defeating the main villain of the book is generally a pretty solid event to surmise as the climax. You, on the other hand, simply asserted that the book was "clearly far from over."

Durkon* wasn't defeated, he was just destroyed. He won't be defeated until his plan is foiled.
...And that's assuming that Durkon*, not Hel, is the "real" main villain of the book.

Spoiler: Misc. (mostly V and/or Belkar, weirdly)

Show

Oh gosh. Please don’t start that again, my mind can’t take it.

Well, since you asked...
I'd guess that he wouldn't want to break up an established relationship. If he hasn't heard of V's divorce, they'd probably be even lower than Belkar.

I'd like to point out that the hate/lust proto brain wasn't an established fact, but a theory set out by an intellectual elitist wanting to belittle someone's mental capacity because, when drunk, he kissed them.

An excellent point. While there wasn't any evidence against the proto-brain argument at the time, Belkar's development since then has established several other possible emotional responses. Either Belkar spent several ability increases on his mental stats, or Vaarsuvius was making their theory with insufficient evidence.
...Though given that it was an attempt to make sure Belkar didn't kiss them again, I don't blame them much for acting rashly.

Nah, I'm pretty sure the "dwarves need beer" is mostly a multiversal constant.

Most things about dwarves are.

i can't understand how you can write a better comics every issue

He's probably putting levels into some obscure comic-related prestige class.

Nah, he knows he is/was a lil crap. He'd probably laugh harder than anyone.

Especially if V's told them about the familicide...

[Kish]

What, you want to rub their face in it? Geez, and I thought the King of Nowhere seemed like a decent guy.

The assassins would debate that, but whether he is or not, this is the King of Nowere--the ruler of a domain defined
by its genocidal policies toward therianthropes.

[Riftwolf]

An excellent point. While there wasn't any evidence against the proto-brain argument at the time, Belkar's development since then has established several other possible emotional responses. Either Belkar spent several ability increases on his mental stats, or Vaarsuvius was making their theory with insufficient evidence.
...Though given that it was an attempt to make sure Belkar didn't kiss them again, I don't blame them much for acting rashly.

I'm going with the second. V came up with an explanation of an awkward social situation they could resolve using spells over interaction, because there's no point attempting interaction with people stupider than you.
(Before I get accused of joining the V-Hate Wagon, I'll say *both* characters have changed since then. In that the pair of them actually held a conversation in this book which wasn't based around V outwitting Belkar.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm going with the second. V came up with an explanation of an awkward social situation they could resolve using spells over interaction, because there's no point attempting interaction with people stupider than you.

Fair enough. Though I think her mid-conclusion ("At this point, there is no point attempting interaction with Belkar, specifically") was valid, even if the logic before and after was flawed.

[diplomancer]

it is very bad pacing to have the confrontation with the Exarch be just a mop-up operation of no importance, it drags out the story unnecessarily. Which means that the climax hasn't passed yet.

In book 5, the climax was not the pyramid, or even destroying the gate, but the confrontation with Tarquin afterwards.

Which makes me think that the confrontation with thr exarch will be far more difficult than expected. As the only thing that can make that happen is a betrayal by Hilgya (possibly with a timeout from the fiends for V), Im guessing that is what will happen.

[JumboWheat01]

I've been trying to imagine some of Durkon's sendings at various points in the adventure.

"Ma, Roy died and Azure City fell. On boat with Elan and V. These paladins seem nice. Still no beer. Dodge training works on water trolls."

"Ma, cast windwalk and dinnae like it. Found Belkar, Hayley and Roy's body. Group back together now. Random 'Och" goes here. Love you."

Recapping more than a thousand comic strips of plot in 25 words-long weekly excerpts takes skill, Durkon might have a future as a writer of book cover blurbs if everything goes wrong with the Thor thing.

Oh wow now I'm thinking what his last message before Malack killed him was:

"Ma, we met Elan's long-lost dad in the western continent. Roy fought in a coliseum. Oh, also I made a new friend! Love you."

And now I suddenly have a desire for the Giant to write a lil' minibook full of nothing but Durkon's weekly Sendings to his mum.