Is Durkon going to Regenerate his mom's arm?

[Fyraltari]

I can see a situation similar to what happened on Durkon's coronation occurring: she refuses or makes a fuss at first for worrying him and taking a favor, and he responds that it's okay to let your son that you raised and took care off for decades to help you out with something important.

Tears and hugs may or may not follow.

Durkon was never crowned. If you meant his ordination that was long after they had a fight about regrowing her arm (obviously).

[zimmerwald1915]

I know Rich is more aware of gender dynamics than he used to be, but if he decides not to have Durkon regenerate his mother’s arm, I don’t think it will be because he has an ethical problem with showing a man successfully convincing his mother to do her a favor.

The word used was "overrule," not "convince," "cajole," "out-argue," or anything similar. An exercise of power to enforce a man's sense of what is right upon a woman who disagrees, not an exercise of logos or pathos to get her to change her mind.

[Aveline]

I know Rich is more aware of gender dynamics than he used to be, but if he decides not to have Durkon regenerate his mother’s arm, I don’t think it will be because he has an ethical problem with showing a man successfully convincing his mother to do her a favor.

I think Zimmerwald was referring less to gender relations and more to bodily autonomy. If Durkon went on to "overrule" Sigdi's desire not to have her arm regenerated, then no matter the reason she wants to decline, regenerating her arm without permission would be a severe abuse of bodily autonomy.

If it was intended to mean that Durkon would convince Sigdi to accept a Regenerate casting, then sure. But "overrule" has a much more forceful and authoritative meaning.

Edit: Zimmerwald weighed in and was not actually talking about bodily autonomy but I stand by my point.

Edit: Oops, the person who said "overrule" wasn't you. Corrected.

[zimmerwald1915]

Edit: Zimmerwald weighed in and was not actually talking about bodily autonomy but I stand by my point.

FWIW, I'm in agreement with your second paragraph. The concern over enforcement by power is one that is shared between your perspective and mine.

[Peelee]

I think Zimmerwald was referring less to gender relations and more to bodily autonomy. If Durkon went on to "overrule" Sigdi's desire not to have her arm regenerated, then no matter the reason she wants to decline, regenerating her arm without permission would be a severe abuse of bodily autonomy.

If it was intended to mean that Durkon would convince Sigdi to accept a Regenerate casting, then sure. But "overrule" has a much more forceful and authoritative meaning.

Edit: Zimmerwald weighed in and was not actually talking about bodily autonomy but I stand by my point.

Edit: Oops, the person who said "overrule" wasn't you. Corrected.

Even though Zim meant something else, bodily autonomy is also an excellent argument against that happening. With real-world parallels to DNRs.

[Mightymosy]

Remember the scene when Sigdi saved some Dwarf with holding him with her one hand?
That was pretty darm close, I'd say!
Wouldn't it be a little easier to save people in such situations with two arms?

"Letting go" in the sense of letting Durkon or another cleric regenerate her arm might be seen as "heroic" by some - maybe by the person she saves next, in a situation where two arms are clearly better than one......

I can see her refusing, but then that would be a kind of stubborness I can't get behind, to be honest.

[Emanick]

The word used was "overrule," not "convince," "cajole," "out-argue," or anything similar. An exercise of power to enforce a man's sense of what is right upon a woman who disagrees, not an exercise of logos or pathos to get her to change her mind.

I was under the impression that you didn't mean "overrule" to mean a literal exercise of power, since that makes little sense - Durkon is obviously not going to physically force his mother to have her arm regenerated against her will. Rather, I pictured him "overruling" her by saying something along the lines of "no, overruled, reason A to accept a regeneration spell is more important than your reason B to decline the spell," and Sigdi accepting his reasoning.

There are two primary meanings of the word overrule - either to "reject or disallow by exercising one's superior authority" or to "reject the decision or argument of someone." The authority definition makes little sense, since Durkon has no authority over his mother, so I assumed you meant to reject Sigdi's arguments (he would not deny his mother the chance to make the final decision, of course).

I agree with you that The Giant is not going to show the (arguably) most Good of his protagonists violating his mother's bodily autonomy, but I can certainly see him arguing with her about it, though I wouldn't expect it to be a protracted disagreement or an ill-tempered one.

[FireJustice]

Well, gods forbid her to move on, after suffering an entire life withou an arm and making his son grow without a father.
Moving on is bad and evil, right?

The entire premise of rent-a-spell clerical spell is OK, too.
gotta pay those golden holy symbols and platinum statues somehow.

and lets not forgive a son who finally got the means to treat his mother.
who was a guard, and could even help him (world at stake... she's probably even-or-higher level than the other cleric that's gonna get ress'd anyway).

but yeah, waiting for "hell was right all along thread" at this point

[zimmerwald1915]

There are two primary meanings of the word overrule - either to "reject or disallow by exercising one's superior authority" or to "reject the decision or argument of someone." The authority definition makes little sense, since Durkon has no authority over his mother, so I assumed you meant to reject Sigdi's arguments (he would not deny his mother the chance to make the final decision, of course).

On the contrary, the authority definition is the only one that makes sense semantically. The rejection definition just amounts to "disagree with."

[Callista]

I'd like to see anybody try to convince Sigdi to do anything she doesn't want to do.

[Mad Humanist]

After today's episode I have the feeling that Hilgya will heal Sigdi's arm. I have the feeling that they are going to go off and become great friends and that is how it happens. I suppose it might even happen in time for Sigdi to play a role in the confrontation with the Exarch. Dunno - just wild speculation.

[Chronos]

To be clear, I didn't mean in any sense that Durkon has any sort of authority over his mother. I just meant that he's going to give a good enough argument that she can't honestly deny it (and Sigdi is not the sort to dishonestly deny anything).

[KorvinStarmast]

I'd like to see anybody try to convince Sigdi to do anything she doesn't want to do.

Which takes us back to a comic where someone does. :) Sigdi was going to pay her back for that dress, and it took a strong will to get her to back down.

[Emanick]

On the contrary, the authority definition is the only one that makes sense semantically. The rejection definition just amounts to "disagree with."

I don't know about semantically, but it makes zero sense contextually, since Durkon has no authority over his mother.

But I'll drop this, since it's a really irrelevant point and I regret bringing it up.

[gatemansgc]

Well, he's about to go into battle with more vampires and the fate of the world is at stake, so I'm guessing he's not going to spend a high level spell on his mom's arm - and I'm guessing she'd be pissed if he did.

After, maybe. After the order defeats Xykon, probably.

i think that's what most of us are thinking.

also, he's gonna have to do most of the fighting. he's underleveled compared to the rest of the order due to the -2 levels and needs to get all the XP possible before the final battle.

[Emanick]

i think that's what most of us are thinking.

also, he's gonna have to do most of the fighting. he's underleveled compared to the rest of the order due to the -2 levels and needs to get all the XP possible before the final battle.

That’s not how XP works. Every member of a party splits XP down the middle, unless some of them are lower-level than others, in which case they receive a slightly greater proportion of it. In any case, how much of the fighting you do does not determine how much XP you get - there’s even an early strip where Belkar explicitly criticizes this system, IIRC, because Elan is getting as much XP as everyone else is, despite being practically useless.

[Kish]

Print-only content. And I think Dragon magazine.

[Mike Havran]

I believe Sigdi had a conversation about Regenerate with her 5 friends long ago. That Durkon can cast it for free now will do little to change her position.

[martianmister]

What if Durkon physically tortures his mother till she accept it? As they said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Fyraltari]

I believe Sigdi had a conversation about Regenerate with her 5 friends long ago. That Durkon can cast it for free now will do little to change her position.

That nobody will have to lose anything to make her life better will. She doesn’t want to live on anybody’s charity but she will accept presents as seen with the ‘new dress’ scene. There is really no sound reason for her to refuse.

[martianmister]

That nobody will have to lose anything to make her life better will. She doesn’t want to live on anybody’s charity but she will accept presents as seen with the ‘new dress’ scene. There is really no sound reason for her to refuse.

Not to mention they owe their lives to her. Regenerating her arm shouldn't be hard for them.

[Fyraltari]

Not to mention they owe their lives to her. Regenerating her arm shouldn't be hard for them.

None of them are Clerics. She doesn't feel like they have any obligation towards her so she won't accept them spending money on her behalf.

[martianmister]

None of them are Clerics.

They can collect money.

She doesn't feel like they have any obligation towards her so she won't accept them spending money on her behalf.

If she can accept gifts, there is no reason for her to not accept something they owe her.

[Peelee]

If she can accept gifts, there is no reason for her to not accept something they owe her.

And that's the story of how she got 25,000 gold from her friends and didn't raise Durkon in poverty.

[Fyraltari]

If she can accept gifts, there is no reason for her to not accept something they owe her.

And that would be relevant if she felt like she was owned anyhting.

"Och no, ye dinnae need ta tell 'em tha!" and "Wha kinda dwarf would I be if I did tha? If I'n put my happiness ahead o' tha lives - tha very souls - o' five others?" show that she does not think she is. Which was foreshadowed a bit by: "Och, stop that. I dinnae do nuthin' no one else 'er wouldnae've done".

[Dion]

That nobody will have to lose anything to make her life better will.

This is not a woman who needs two arms to have a fulfilling and meaningful life. Giving her two arms might make Durkon’s life better. I see no evidence in the strip that it would make her life better.

[Fyraltari]

This is not a woman who needs two arms to have a fulfilling and meaningful life. Giving her two arms might make Durkon’s life better. I see no evidence in the strip that it would make her life better.

...

Do you really think having two arms is not better than having only one? Do you really think things are not harder when you only have one arm?

[Verappo]

Also we know she's developing arthritis, so a little clerical help wouldn't hurt, regardless of whether it's to cure one lost arm or the other.

[Aveline]

...

Do you really think having two arms is not better than having only one? Do you really think things are not harder when you only have one arm?

It's complicated.

For one thing, there's a lot to relearn after having lived with one arm. How old is Durkon? Fifty-some years? That's a very long time for Sigdi to come to terms with a disability. Going back to two arms would probably not be the most comfortable thing in the world.

For another, it can be a sense of identity. Even putting aside the personal significance of her sacrifices, having a disability is often an establishing factor in one's relationships. Getting healed would change one's social dynamics - and not necessarily for the better.

If you asked me if I would want to have my arm regenerated, I wouldn't have a clear answer for you.

[martianmister]

And that's the story of how she got 25,000 gold from her friends and didn't raise Durkon in poverty.

She didn't raise him in poverty.

And that would be relevant if she felt like she was owned anyhting.

"Och no, ye dinnae need ta tell 'em tha!" and "Wha kinda dwarf would I be if I did tha? If I'n put my happiness ahead o' tha lives - tha very souls - o' five others?" show that she does not think she is. Which was foreshadowed a bit by: "Och, stop that. I dinnae do nuthin' no one else 'er wouldnae've done".

They still owe their lives to her, despite how much she deny it.