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  1. - Top - End - #541
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Yes, with no sparks the world would be a nice peaceful place with no wars or anything like that. Just like the real world... Um. I don't know about you, but the real world isn't that peaceful either. The problem is with humans in general, so unless you want to go the way of Judge Death....
    Nobody's saying that it would be a perfect world, but it would be a much better world for your average person. Just look at Gil's speech to Zola on the value of the Pax Wulfenbach. The typical fate of your average peasant is "monster chow", and if they escape that fate they get upgraded to "unwilling test subject". In the real world, the wilderness could be dangerous because of thievery and banditry. In GG-verse, it's downright uninhabitable due to all the escaped abominations and clanks. Entire towns can just vanish off the map when some local spark has a breakthrough and their monster burns the village down (or on a grander scale, see Passholdt).

    The sparks are also shown to be permanently at war with one another. Nations aren't really a thing, with the lone exception being England. And that is mostly underwater at this point. Europe is in a state of constant local war, making nowhere safe.

  2. - Top - End - #542
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Considering that sparks are consumed by both the thirst of knowledge and the desire to Show them! Show them all! I wonder if establishing at least an Europa-wide science journalism with an addition of focused grants for most practical inventions would help chanelling those urges properly. It is a shame that sociology sparks are so rare.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  3. - Top - End - #543
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Doubtful. Anyone who didnt get published/funded would go right back to what they were doing anyways, because THOSE FOOLS DID NOT PROPERLY APPRECIATE THEIR GENIUS.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-03-16 at 12:00 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #544
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Doubtful. Anyone who didnt get published/funded would go right back to what they were doing anyways, because THOSE FOOLS DID NOT PROPERLY APPRECIATE THEIR GENIUS.
    And even if they were included it would just spiral to destruction trying to outdo each other. "Well MY perpetual energy device actually produces more and more energy as it goes!" /europa is engulfed by thermonuclear fire when it finally breeches containment.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  5. - Top - End - #545
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    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Hah.. thinking about it.. our thread title works perfectly with Othars theory :P
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  6. - Top - End - #546
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by geoduck View Post
    It's all worse with Sparks- here in our reality, Europe is, yes, mostly peaceful and productive, while in the GGVerse, even under the Baron's iron-fisted rule it's a patchwork collection of walled city-states surrounded by a monster-infested wilderness.
    Right now Europe is peaceful. If you look at history you will find that is certainly not the case. Just take a look at the list of wars in the 19th Century (Note this seems to be the period GG takes place in). That a very long list of wars. And the bloodshed of the early and middle 20th Century is beyond measure. Only the Other works on that scale in the GG univerase that we know of. Now if you remove all the sparks there would be less conflict, maybe. But you are also killing people who had done nothing wrong, killing them for what they MIGHT do. How would you feel if a close family member was killed because of what they might do? Frankly the Baron is the one on the right track, figure out how to suppress the spark. The Baron's methods certainly need work, but "But the concept is sound".
    Member of the Giants in the Playground Forum Chapter for the Movement to Reunite Gondwana!

  7. - Top - End - #547
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Except Othar's plan won't work. As Rodin notes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Entire towns can just vanish off the map when some local spark has a breakthrough and their monster burns the village down (or on a grander scale, see Passholdt).
    There's precedent of Sparks just appearing in places with no history of Sparks before. Until the origin of the Spark and how its inherited is understood killing all the current Sparks is just a temporary stopgap.

    You could make the assumption that all Sparks have a Spark ancestor in their family tree and exterminate everyone related to a Spark (Which is a lot of people. For example the former Master of Paris and his vast extended family only some of whom are sparks. Or Ghengis Ht'rok-din founder of the Heterodyne family is clearly at least partially a Ghengis Khan expy. Imagine how many descendants he has that don't know it.) and it still might not even work because we don't know where the first Sparks came from at the start.
    Last edited by Spamotron; 2019-03-16 at 02:08 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #548
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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Hah.. thinking about it.. our thread title works perfectly with Othars theory :P
    Its the nature of sparks that our thread title works perfectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

  9. - Top - End - #549

    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Hah.. thinking about it.. our thread title works perfectly with Othar's theory :P
    That is the reason I paraphrased it when describing the typical Spark's reaction.

  10. - Top - End - #550
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spamotron View Post
    Except Othar's plan won't work. As Rodin notes:



    There's precedent of Sparks just appearing in places with no history of Sparks before. Until the origin of the Spark and how its inherited is understood killing all the current Sparks is just a temporary stopgap.

    You could make the assumption that all Sparks have a Spark ancestor in their family tree and exterminate everyone related to a Spark (Which is a lot of people. For example the former Master of Paris and his vast extended family only some of whom are sparks. Or Ghengis Ht'rok-din founder of the Heterodyne family is clearly at least partially a Ghengis Khan expy. Imagine how many descendants he has that don't know it.) and it still might not even work because we don't know where the first Sparks came from at the start.
    And this is why Klaus not only sought how to suppress the spark but to find its true nature along with a reliable test for spark potential. And the sparks that did not go on a rampage yet? As someone once said, he was very good at finding the right monster for the right job.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  11. - Top - End - #551
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    geoduck's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Considering that sparks are consumed by both the thirst of knowledge and the desire to Show them! Show them all! I wonder if establishing at least an Europa-wide science journalism with an addition of focused grants for most practical inventions would help chanelling those urges properly. It is a shame that sociology sparks are so rare.
    The print-novels touch on this at one point, noting that Klaus is/was careful to have lots of testimonials and banquets and awards for all the Sparks he's got working for him.

  12. - Top - End - #552
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    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Except Othar's plan won't work. As Rodin notes:
    Well Rodin is wrong.

    There's precedent of Sparks just appearing in places with no history of Sparks before. Until the origin of the Spark and how its inherited is understood killing all the current Sparks is just a temporary stopgap.

    You could make the assumption that all Sparks have a Spark ancestor in their family tree and exterminate everyone related to a Spark (Which is a lot of people. For example the former Master of Paris and his vast extended family only some of whom are sparks. Or Ghengis Ht'rok-din founder of the Heterodyne family is clearly at least partially a Ghengis Khan expy. Imagine how many descendants he has that don't know it.) and it still might not even work because we don't know where the first Sparks came from at the start.
    Like Agatha suddenly just appered?
    I think just about all the sparks we have actual family information on is a direct descendant of another spark.
    And looking at just how rare sparks in general are, then im pretty sure that anyone with actual data on the matter could scientifically prove the spark is inherited.

    It should also be pointed out, that as we were explained very early on in the comic, then feral sparks are mostly a danger to themselves.
    We have directly been told that without education and tools its limited what a spark can do. And they are extremely likely to get themselves killed.

    So really, all Other has to do, is to kill all the other sparks, then freeze himself for a decade or so and repeat before offing himself.
    That would strike a blow against the spark population that it would likely newer recover from. And sparks would go from being a plague to becomming a nuesance that might wreck a street once every couple of years.

    Now im not saying this is an ethical solution to the problem.
    But it is one thats likely to work.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  13. - Top - End - #553
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    Divayth Fyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Like Agatha suddenly just appered?
    I think just about all the sparks we have actual family information on is a direct descendant of another spark.
    The thing is, the amount of sparks we have actual family information on is so limited, I wouldn't dare to build an argument on. There are some families where the spark is inherited, true, but that doesn't mean it is the only option (or even the most common option) - we just don't have the data to really work with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

  14. - Top - End - #554
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    I think the real flaw in Othar's plan, even assuming that the Spark is a genetic phenotype that can be weeded out of the populace and that just killing sparks instead of all the non-sparky gene carriers will effectively erradicate sparks, is that killing that many people is logistically unfeasable. Othar's been trying to kill off sparks for years, seemingly just be tracking them down one-by-one and shooting them. He doesn't have some kind of spark-selective supervirus or anything like that.

    Even if we assume sparks are only 0.1% of the human population and that the constant war and instability has kept the human population down to only half a billion (both numbers I've pulled out of thin air, but they seem reasonable minima), Othar would have to kill 500,000 people in the ~40 years he has left before old age reaches him (assuming that nothing kills him off first in his incredibly dangerous dual professions of hero and spark-killer). That's 12,500 sparks a year, or a little over 34 per day. It would be one thing if he had an organisation of spark hunters, but it's just him. He's jsut going to kill a few people, many of whom will likely be innocent, and then die himself. No real dent in the spark population, just a lot of wasted time and bullets.

  15. - Top - End - #555
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    Scarlet Knight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    ...

    Even if we assume sparks are only 0.1% of the human population and that the constant war and instability has kept the human population down to only half a billion (both numbers I've pulled out of thin air, but they seem reasonable minima), Othar would have to kill 500,000 people in the ~40 years he has left before old age reaches him (assuming that nothing kills him off first in his incredibly dangerous dual professions of hero and spark-killer). That's 12,500 sparks a year, or a little over 34 per day...
    Well, he IS a spark-killing spark. I don't think we've ever seen Othar in the "madness place", have we? If he comes up with an fast spreading fatal spark virus, a pandemic may do it in over a year or two & his work may continue after his death.
    Last edited by Scarlet Knight; 2019-03-17 at 10:55 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #556
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    I think he's a hero-spark rather than a spark-killing-spark. His obsession with drama and speeches and his own tragic nature and gentlemanly heroics seems to trump his general desire to kill sparks.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  17. - Top - End - #557
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Well, he IS a spark-killing spark. I don't think we've ever seen Othar in the "madness place", have we? If he comes up with an fast spreading fatal spark virus, a pandemic may do it in over a year or two & his work may continue after his death.
    He dips into the Madness Place here. Regardless, we're talking about Othar's plan, not Othar's hypothetical abilities. If his plan were to create a potent virus he'd be spending his time in a virology lab or out in the world researching diseases. He's instead wandering around with a gun trying to shoot people, so in the absense of further evidence we must assume that to be his plan.

  18. - Top - End - #558
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    I think the real flaw in Othar's plan, even assuming that the Spark is a genetic phenotype that can be weeded out of the populace and that just killing sparks instead of all the non-sparky gene carriers will effectively erradicate sparks, is that killing that many people is logistically unfeasable. Othar's been trying to kill off sparks for years, seemingly just be tracking them down one-by-one and shooting them. He doesn't have some kind of spark-selective supervirus or anything like that.

    Even if we assume sparks are only 0.1% of the human population and that the constant war and instability has kept the human population down to only half a billion (both numbers I've pulled out of thin air, but they seem reasonable minima), Othar would have to kill 500,000 people in the ~40 years he has left before old age reaches him (assuming that nothing kills him off first in his incredibly dangerous dual professions of hero and spark-killer). That's 12,500 sparks a year, or a little over 34 per day. It would be one thing if he had an organisation of spark hunters, but it's just him. He's jsut going to kill a few people, many of whom will likely be innocent, and then die himself. No real dent in the spark population, just a lot of wasted time and bullets.
    It's worse than that, because Sparks are being born faster than Othar is killing them.

  19. - Top - End - #559
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    Scarlet Knight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    ... If his plan were to create a potent virus he'd be spending his time in a virology lab or out in the world researching diseases. He's instead wandering around with a gun trying to shoot people, so in the absense of further evidence we must assume that to be his plan.
    That is reasonable to assume.

    However, we have seen sparks find accidental inspiration from various sources ( just look at all the varied things that distract Agatha).

    If Othar attempts to kill a spark while in a biology lab, he very well may say: "Wait a mo'. Look at these equations left by Dr. Von Herpes! I've been going about this all wrong!"

    The only hope is that he might not have the skill as Othar has been described as a bit...stupid.
    Last edited by Scarlet Knight; 2019-03-17 at 01:50 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #560
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    The only hope is that he might not have the skill as Othar has been described as a bit...stupid.
    Nah, wrong sort of stupid. Othar is a strong spark, that means he's intelligent. He is very, very silly, makes mistakes due to not thinking things through and so on, but he's not unintelligent.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  21. - Top - End - #561
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

  22. - Top - End - #562
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by PraetorDragoon View Post
    That was what I thought of too. He's still brilliant, just easily distracted and somewhat gullible at times.

  23. - Top - End - #563
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    That was what I thought of too. He's still brilliant, just easily distracted and somewhat gullible at times.
    In other words, a GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER!
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

  24. - Top - End - #564
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    St Fan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    What is worst than a cabal of Sparks trying to summon an abomination from beyond time and reality?

    TWO cabals of Sparks competing over said abomination!
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    DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
    PC: Excuse me, what?
    DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.


    "Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."

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  25. - Top - End - #565
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    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    The thing is, the amount of sparks we have actual family information on is so limited, I wouldn't dare to build an argument on. There are some families where the spark is inherited, true, but that doesn't mean it is the only option (or even the most common option) - we just don't have the data to really work with.
    Well, we actually have a lot of information on it. Like the entire heterodyne line, to comments about how spark styles run in the family to a degree where the Baron can at a glance identify one.
    Or how its just directly assumed that a strong spark is likely to have a kid who is a strong spark, in Gil's secondary cover story.

    And so when we have one theory that easily explains the apperance of the spark, that its a latent genetic trait that might trigger under stress.
    Then it seems a little weird to think there is a more complex explanation.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  26. - Top - End - #566

    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    The Spark is Magic, and It wants to be set free.

    Seems a simple enough explanation to me.

  27. - Top - End - #567
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

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    Whoever said Violetta was the sacrifice? Well done.

  28. - Top - End - #568
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Bit confused here: why hasn't she escaped? I thought Smoke Knights were good at that?

  29. - Top - End - #569
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Bit confused here: why hasn't she escaped? I thought Smoke Knights were good at that?
    She was seriously injured, apparently with no gear left at hand and the handcuff designers might have been actually good as well - especially since they did not assume that at any point he chained person needs to be set free, which does affect the inner workings of the lock mechanism.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  30. - Top - End - #570
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

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    yeah..those cultists better hope they die before Violetta gets loose

    hooboy does she look pissed
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