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  1. - Top - End - #841
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    The Beast was built using Faustus Heterodyne's technology, which I'm fairly sure (though I can't remember where it was said) was more a case of conciousness transfer than creating a mechanical intelligence. As for Anveka, Tarvek had to reverse-engineer Tinka almost to destruction in order to build her, and even that was seen as a momentous achievement from a very strong spark.
    Oh, for sure. I should clarify that I wasn't trying to state that anyone was a match for Van Rijin.

  2. - Top - End - #842
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    How many clanks have we spent any time with? The only other ones to come to mind are The Beast and Bohrlaika, and we didn't learn much about her.
    The Beast isn't one. Bohrlaika is what we think is a new AI built by Gil/Klaus (My tinfoil hat theory is that it's Otilia in a new body). But we are forgetting the Dingbots, especially Queenie. We also have AI's that are copied from living people. (There was one in Paris but can't recall the name)
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  3. - Top - End - #843
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    The Beast isn't one. Bohrlaika is what we think is a new AI built by Gil/Klaus (My tinfoil hat theory is that it's Otilia in a new body). But we are forgetting the Dingbots, especially Queenie. We also have AI's that are copied from living people. (There was one in Paris but can't recall the name)
    There's no way it can be Otilia, she's stuck in a tiger-clank body somewhere deep inside in Mechanicsburg.

    I'm curious how Gil manage to ditch her when he went chasing after Tarvek.

  4. - Top - End - #844
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    The Beast isn't one. Bohrlaika is what we think is a new AI built by Gil/Klaus (My tinfoil hat theory is that it's Otilia in a new body). But we are forgetting the Dingbots, especially Queenie. We also have AI's that are copied from living people. (There was one in Paris but can't recall the name)
    Madame Desmana is a head in a jar with a mechanical body attached. It seems to be normal, as we know both that Selnikov was expecting to receive one and that there's apparently a checklist for cognitive drift complications to watch for.

  5. - Top - End - #845
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Madame Desmana is a head in a jar with a mechanical body attached. It seems to be normal, as we know both that Selnikov was expecting to receive one and that there's apparently a checklist for cognitive drift complications to watch for.
    Nope. "Before she died, she had her personality sculped onto a blank clank core."
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  6. - Top - End - #846
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    We also have AI's that are copied from living people. (There was one in Paris but can't recall the name)
    You aren't thinking of Professor Beausoleil, are you?
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

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  7. - Top - End - #847
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Also brings to mind a tinfoil hate theory. That Queen Zantabraxus of Skif (Gil and Zeetha's mom) is actually Queen Luheia (the immortal) and just faked her death. Every once in a while she comes back pretending to be a different descendant. As I say though it's deep in tin foil hat territory.
    Tinfoil "hate" or "hat"?

    In either case, I'd say "nope". It's sound logic -- once you realize someone is targeting immortal queens, the only way to survive is to pretend to not be an immortal queen. So the logical thing to do is to "pretend to be an offspring" for a few generations until you figure out who is after you and how to stop them.

    Then, you don't do the stopping yourself. You find yourself someone that is able to do it for you. You've probably got time manipulation powers, so you find the right person in the timeline, use some sort of time shenanigans to set them on the right course, and sit back and wait.
    So you'll insert the horse into the Large Hadron Collider next?
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  8. - Top - End - #848
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    It seems not living in linear time (or being new to the linear time neighborhood) does not preclude doing things you will find out were a bad idea five seconds after it's too late.

    A timey-wimey side-note on how this may work: I remember a discussion about an SF story where a linear time human had to explain how he experienced time to some beings who experienced past, present, and future simultaneously.

    The question got raised why they needed him to explain if, from the way they experienced time, they'd always known.

    The answer was that, until it was explained to them, they had never and would never know. Once it was explained, they had always known it. Or, looked at the other way, they couldn't always know it if they didn't ask him to explain it.

    If that makes any sense.

    The point of saying all that: Knowing the future will NOT keep our guy from doing stupid things.

  9. - Top - End - #849
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

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    So he actually just has six arms now? I thought that was just a motion thing.
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  10. - Top - End - #850
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Now, there's an interesting display of good manners. Well, manners - not so sure about the good.
    Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.

    "The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud

    "Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee

  11. - Top - End - #851
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
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    So he actually just has six arms now? I thought that was just a motion thing.
    I believe that it's a Bodhisattva reference, especially since on Googling it the definition is "one who seeks awakening".

  12. - Top - End - #852
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    It seems not living in linear time (or being new to the linear time neighborhood) does not preclude doing things you will find out were a bad idea five seconds after it's too late.

    A timey-wimey side-note on how this may work: I remember a discussion about an SF story where a linear time human had to explain how he experienced time to some beings who experienced past, present, and future simultaneously.

    The question got raised why they needed him to explain if, from the way they experienced time, they'd always known.

    The answer was that, until it was explained to them, they had never and would never know. Once it was explained, they had always known it. Or, looked at the other way, they couldn't always know it if they didn't ask him to explain it.

    If that makes any sense.

    The point of saying all that: Knowing the future will NOT keep our guy from doing stupid things.
    I see it like the Watchmen's Dr. Manhattan. He saw everything in his past, present and future at the same time, but he couldn't change a thing. He was a slave to a fate he already knew, and rapidly becoming disillusioned by it.
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  13. - Top - End - #853
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    Zombie

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Shoggoth View Post
    You aren't thinking of Professor Beausoleil, are you?
    Nope. The Prof still has a human body, he just remotely controls a bunch of clank bodies. This Page is what I am talking about.
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  14. - Top - End - #854
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Blobby has just learned the most important rule about Sparks.

    It is already too late to run.

  15. - Top - End - #855
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    I am glad to see that the baron was rather justified in removing chunks of Dt Dim's brain. This does, however, lead me to wonder just how bad the Baron thinks Tryggvassen is.
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    Rockphed said it well.
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  16. - Top - End - #856
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    I am glad to see that the baron was rather justified in removing chunks of Dt Dim's brain. This does, however, lead me to wonder just how bad the Baron thinks Tryggvassen is.
    There is a subtext there that the Baron was playing with Othar so he could get in a fight with him. (Notice that he left a scalpel where Othar could reach it and escape.) Klaus seems to think of Othar as a pain in the neck that can be useful, clearly NOT on the same level as Dimitri. Even Agatha is thinking that Klaus may have been right and Kosp is the opposite of happy about the turn of events.
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  17. - Top - End - #857
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    There is a subtext there that the Baron was playing with Othar so he could get in a fight with him. (Notice that he left a scalpel where Othar could reach it and escape.) Klaus seems to think of Othar as a pain in the neck that can be useful, clearly NOT on the same level as Dimitri. Even Agatha is thinking that Klaus may have been right and Kosp is the opposite of happy about the turn of events.
    Honestly, I could completely see that. Klaus, who is sitting and rotting in his throne, who has to break his own rules to much of anything himself, hasn't gotten to see his wife or do any actual adventuring in ages. From that perspective, Othar could be considered a neatly contained adventure: one that dislikes collateral damage (particularly innocent lives) and prefers to come up against his targets with full and directed strength. Capture Othar, get some vigorous exercise, work out some frustration, and top up his rep as a badass all in the same action, with minimal chance of anyone else getting meaningfully hurt. Such a rival needs to be treasured, and cultivated.

    Vapnoodle (especially given the light we're seeing him in now) is not that kind of threat. He's not, for Klaus, any sort of fun. That's why Othar gets the very nearly inescapable death traps while Vapnoodle gets the impromptu brain surgery.
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  18. - Top - End - #858
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Honestly, I could completely see that. Klaus, who is sitting and rotting in his throne, who has to break his own rules to much of anything himself, hasn't gotten to see his wife or do any actual adventuring in ages. From that perspective, Othar could be considered a neatly contained adventure: one that dislikes collateral damage (particularly innocent lives) and prefers to come up against his targets with full and directed strength. Capture Othar, get some vigorous exercise, work out some frustration, and top up his rep as a badass all in the same action, with minimal chance of anyone else getting meaningfully hurt. Such a rival needs to be treasured, and cultivated.

    Vapnoodle (especially given the light we're seeing him in now) is not that kind of threat. He's not, for Klaus, any sort of fun. That's why Othar gets the very nearly inescapable death traps while Vapnoodle gets the impromptu brain surgery.
    In the novelization of the first half of the Mechanicsburg arc, when Grantz brings Othar in for Klaus, we see that Klaus considered Othar to be just a clown. But after he tells Othar that Agatha is the Other, and Sgt. Scorp adds his testimony, Othar seems to take that seriously, and Klaus is unsettled at the possibility that Othar's clowning around might just be an act.

  19. - Top - End - #859
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbey View Post
    In the novelization of the first half of the Mechanicsburg arc, when Grantz brings Othar in for Klaus, we see that Klaus considered Othar to be just a clown. But after he tells Othar that Agatha is the Other, and Sgt. Scorp adds his testimony, Othar seems to take that seriously, and Klaus is unsettled at the possibility that Othar's clowning around might just be an act.
    That would make a lot more sense if he wasn't already an infamously badass Sparkslayer with a history of walking into situations and laying waste to the local Spark and his army of sentient incendiary squirrels or whatever. The man is a buffoon, there is no question of that. But he's an astonishingly successful buffoon. It's not like Klaus to undersell someone with an established rep like that (Agatha, yes, but the rarity of female Sparks and his bias against Lucrezia tended to blind him to her).
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  20. - Top - End - #860
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    The Baron's early portrayal is complicated mainly because he was supposed to be far more villainous then he wound up being depicted. As shown, the Baron is quite a good guy who just has a ruthless instinct that makes his enemies fear him. This is rather at odds with his willingness to experiment on unwilling test subjects and cause major brain damage in the process. Lucrezia also doesn't consider him one of the "good guys", but there's precious little evidence for that in what is shown.

    Based on that history, I fully believe that Klaus intended to lobotomize Othar. While he did let him escape, that was in order to release pent up frustration over being continually interrupted. If Agatha hadn't freed him, I'm sure Othar would have wound up back on the table sooner rather than later.

  21. - Top - End - #861
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Actually Klaus wasn't out to lobotomize Othar. Destroy his spark, yes, but that's not a lobotomy. Klaus is trying to figure out a way to make a evil spark safe, but keep them alive. In some ways that's not all that different than Othar's plan to genocide all the sparks. And let's face it sparks are the cause of a LOT of problems in GG universe. Only a few sparks aren't highly dangerous to be around, or have living within a 1000 miles of you. We have just been exposed to the best of a bad lot. Even the Master of Paris thought the same way in some respect since he clearly was guiding sparks in Paris to be less dangerous than they could be.
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  22. - Top - End - #862
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Every insurance underwriter in Europa just woke up screaming, didn't they?

  23. - Top - End - #863
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Every insurance underwriter in Europa just woke up screaming, didn't they?
    All three of them.

  24. - Top - End - #864
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    I think you might need to be a spark to make insurance work in Europa
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  25. - Top - End - #865
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Based on that history, I fully believe that Klaus intended to lobotomize Othar. While he did let him escape, that was in order to release pent up frustration over being continually interrupted. If Agatha hadn't freed him, I'm sure Othar would have wound up back on the table sooner rather than later.
    Klaus didnt allow Othar to escape. We have directly had Word of God on Othar escaping on his own merit,
    because Klaus slipped up the brief second Other needed to get free.

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...8#.XMDYP9i-laQ

    I also think thats pretty clear from the expression on his face.
    Thats someone who are first surprised at seeing something unexpected.
    And then really, really annoyed.

    It would honestly also be out of character for Klaus to allow someone as dangerous as Othar to run free.
    He is all abouth ruthless efficiency.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    For all the parents out there: don't the faces in the last panel remind you of your kids when they finally figure out why you told them NOT to go on the roof?
    "We are the people our parents warned us about!" - J.Buffett

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  27. - Top - End - #867
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Gil made a good argument that Klaus let him escape:

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...7#.XMEnYDBKi1s

    Meanwhile, even Krosp and the bears don't seem to see a bright side. If Albia shows up before they have Dr. Dim back to being dim, this could get very awkward. Hope time guy can reverse it (hope I don't regret hoping he can turn Sparks into lobotomized Sparks, because there's no way that could be used for evil).

  28. - Top - End - #868
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Since Dim looks to be this arc's version of The Beast or Andy Valois there's very good odds this ends with him dead and lots of destruction, plus the attendant political chaos (the Corbetites forced out of neutrality to be Tweedle's vassals, the undercity getting unified, the Master of Paris getting killed and replaced with Collette).

  29. - Top - End - #869
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    Gil made a good argument that Klaus let him escape:

    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...7#.XMEnYDBKi1s

    Meanwhile, even Krosp and the bears don't seem to see a bright side. If Albia shows up before they have Dr. Dim back to being dim, this could get very awkward. Hope time guy can reverse it (hope I don't regret hoping he can turn Sparks into lobotomized Sparks, because there's no way that could be used for evil).
    Even if he can, it would only work on Sparks that were previously lobotomized and/or will be lobotomized in the future, wouldn't it?
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    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  30. - Top - End - #870
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    It occurs to me that we are missing a monster here. Bang. Having her kill Dimitri would be an interesting/ironic twist would it not? Don't think it will happen though.
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