[Qeestion] Level 20 Battle Royal Character choices

[hwem]

If you had to attend a level 20 BR with 20 players, what would your choice of class/subclass/race/etc be?
The rules are listed below.
Thanks as always!

• No multiclass
• No prep prior to the battles
• Wish and DI are heavily regulated
• It's a battlefield of plains and forests (I don't know the details myself. Sorry)
• Item chests (healing, weapons, etc) will spawn across the battlefield every now and then

Also...I am not sure what prefix this thread should be. Sorry.
edit: some prizes include game table with a flat screen tv embedded in it, $100 gift card to the game store, various masterfully painted minis

[Rukelnikov]

There are myriads of builds you could use, but my advice? Get something sneaky, the winner is not the one that kills the most but the last one standing.

EDIT: Oh and also, you are probably not gonna be the only one with that strategy, so try to have good perception too.

Rogue or Ranger sound like the best fits.

[Foxhound438]

be a shadow monk, sprint off into the woods and hide. Take magic initiate druid for goodberry and let everyone else starve to death while you skulk around with a +21 in stealth due to pass without trace and free invisibility, short rest to refresh ki, recast and repeat. Maybe come out at the very end to 1v1 the last enemy, if it's a melee character just kite them while throwing darts or shooting a short bow, otherwise you're pretty safe stun locking most PC builds. Maybe take gnome as your race since you don't have to worry about awkward starting stats (or stats in general tbh) to get advantage against nasty spells, particularly scrying effects.

[kenGarff]

I've done couple of these since a game store I go to have these pretty often. And "my" tournaments also heavily nerf wish and divine intervention along with little to no prep time to reduce effectiveness of wizards for instance.

From what I observed, EKs, rogues, open hand monks, and rangers do really well. I am quite surprised by how well some EKs do since I'd assume they'd die out soon similar to how Paladins die out as they hit hard and can take hits well but are constantly in chains of battles until they die.

Paladins (especially vengeance and ancients) usually make a huge scene at the very beginning. However, from what I've seen, they run out of resources really quickly and just get killed left and right Ince they are huge targets. It's the same with moon druids and zealot barbarians. Many players initially played moon druids and zealot barbarians a lot until they realized they were the biggest target on the field and would often times get ganged up or be in chains of fights.

Between rogue archetypes, I'm not sure what the best ones are. Same for the rangers but I've seen hunters and gloom stalkers quite a bit.

[hwem]

Thanks everyone for the insights so far. I initially thought moon druid, open hand monk, and zealot barbarians would be the way to go. But I can definitely see why they wouldn't do too well on paper in battle royale, not 1v1, where many will go after that large crosshair on your back while sneaky subclasses will be exceptionally good. For rogues, rangers, and such...what would be the best subclasses?

[Foxhound438]

For rogues, rangers, and such...what would be the best subclasses?

Arcane Trickster rogues seem pretty good, they can pretty much idle on the power in the base class, and having spells like misty step or hold person where it's needed would be icing on that cake.

Rangers would probably be pretty good in any case, gloom stalker can be particularly good if you can hide until nighttime since darkvision users would still be unable to see you in darkness (save for warlocks). Monster slayer could also be pretty good since they get bonuses vs. spellcasters.

I maintain that shadow is probably best for monks since they get pretty much the best stealth options available to anyone, with both pass without trace and free, non-concentration invisibility (putting it ahead of rangers and druids), and then also a no verbal teleport if anyone ever gets close to finding you

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A Druid.
Go Earth Elemental, Borrow underground and blast all with storm of vengeance, lighting strikes and more.

[iTreeby]

Lucky gnome bard with magic jar as a spell secret. Cast the minnimus containment imprisonment using the same gem as the magic jar to trap a squirrel. Steal other people's characters.

[jaappleton]

Oh, 1000000% the answer is Moon Druid.

It’s utterly broken at lv20. Unlimited Wild Shape? Seriously? Cast your highest damaging Concentration spell, go Earth Elemental and hide in the ground. You have Tremorsense so you’ll know when anyone is moving on the ground, so you know where to strike.

In all honesty, your table should universally agree to outright ban Druids from this event. I mean that.

[CTurbo]

Tempest Cleric would be a strong choice. Great AC, take Res(Con), Warcaster, max Wis, and Con. 3 times of maxed Thunder/Lightning damage.

Ancients, Conquest, Redemption, Vengeance, or Oathbreaker Paladin. All three have GREAT capstones

Beserker Barbarian would be PERFECT for this since exhaustion won't come into play. Just use Greataxe, take GWM, Res(Wis), Max Str, Con, and put the rest in Dex

[Misterwhisper]

1. Be a war forged.
-you never know when not having to breathe, eat, or drink will be a lifesaver.
-stats work for every class

2. Do not play melee.
- FAR to easy to keep away from at that level with so many things that can fly or just get away.
- You will just simply not be able to pull it off.

3. Do not be gear dependent.
- Gear can be taken, disarmed, or made useless too easily.

4. Have great perception, maybe even other senses.
- Nothing will help your chances better than being able to find them before they find you.

5. Don't be the obvious threat.
- If you start by looking like the person going to wreck all, you are going to get focus fired.

6. Be prepared for a battle of attrition, some people are going to play the hide and wait game, even if it is not your thing, make sure you can live on your own.

7. Moon Druids - Absolutely broken in this setting, like to the point that expect to see at least 7 of them.

8. Pick skills wisely -
Survival, stealth, perception - great
Persuasion, animal handling, and certain knowledge skills, no.

9. Classes:

- Barbarian, no real chance to win, almost exclusively melee, no escape ability and no ability to chase people down other than slightly better speed. No advice on subclass, just don't play one.

- Bard: All about what skills you pick for magical secret. Problem though of lack of damage, and casting focus is a bit harder to get ahold of. I would lean whispers bard.

- Cleric: Good spells, good class abilities, and can change per day could be great, mobility might be a problem. Pick a defensive or utility subclass.

- Druid: Moon druids are almost gods, especially as a war forged, just stay underground for your rest, you don't need to breathe. Almost unbeatable.

- Fighter: Only go archer, you can burn someone down with action surge pretty fast but then you have the problem of finding them, not exactly experts on detection and utility. Battlemaster is good but so is Eldritch Knight.

- Monk: Speed is amazing, AC is not, neither is health. I you go full stun nova and burn someone down you will have to rest a lot but if you can pull it off you are dangerous.
Drunken master for its crazy movement is good, Shadow is great other than your own vision problems.

- Paladin: Nova is amazing, class abilities are incredible, but your lasting power is definitely not. No real ranged abilities, nor escape ability. May kill someone, but you are going to die. Skip it.

- Ranger: Great at survival, tracking, and hiding, but does not have to offense or defense to make it once the battle starts, even if you do get an ambush. I would go Monster Slayer or the always popular Gloom Stalker.

- Rogue: You are the skill god, between expertise, reliable talent, and many other things you can do anything you want, the issue is going to be how the DM rules how hide and shooting works. Also a readied action spell is going to give you massive problems, play a subclass that can sneak attack without help. Tabaxi is good, Thief, Scout, or Arcane Trickster.

- Sorcerer: To be honest you are just a wizard that can't be counter spelled with a MUCH smaller spell selection. You can do some great things but no multi class really hurts. Subclass does not matter much.

- Warlock: So many different ways to go it can do anything. Personally I would go celestial pact of chain. Invisible scout and spy. The problem is that you will never win any fight one on one with another arcane caster, they can just counterspell your piddly number of spell slots, so stick to being an artillery machine and fight cheap. Your chances aren't good.

- Wizard: You have the spells, and the versatility, with the right subclass you can be a beast, the issue is, everyone knows that and will be gunning for you. The main issue is if you get found first and get burned down due to lower HP. Diviner is good, deep gnome abjurer, even a blade singer is great. Defense is the key.

[kenGarff]

The problem with moon druid is the same problem the likes of nova-machine paladin or barbarians have: they are a huge target and they just fight in the battlefield. Moon druid, especially level 20, is a monster in 1v1. But it almost always leads to everyone just trying to kill you, and succeeding, because you are somewhat of a BBEG on the field. Wizards aren't that good since they get no preparation to do all the crazy shenanigans...especially with limited wish applications. From what I've seen the winners are usually the sneaky ones that don't also burn out resources too quickly.

Interestingly with a little preparation, I've seen a vengeance paladin ride a pegasus with haste and just snipe the crap out of anyone at will and get out really quickly.

[Misterwhisper]

The problem with moon druid is the same problem the likes of nova-machine paladin or barbarians have: they are a huge target and they just fight in the battlefield. Moon druid, especially level 20, is a monster in 1v1. But it almost always leads to everyone just trying to kill you, and succeeding, because you are somewhat of a BBEG on the field. Wizards aren't that good since they get no preparation to do all the crazy shenanigans...especially with limited wish applications. From what I've seen the winners are usually the sneaky ones that don't also burn out resources too quickly.

Interestingly with a little preparation, I've seen a vengeance paladin ride a pegasus with haste and just snipe the crap out of anyone at will and get out really quickly.

The Moon Druid is not going to be wearing a huge sign that says it is a Moon Druid.
Also, as soon as it gets to their initiative, change and sink, then they are screwed.

The only way they lose is if:

1. They start visible to everyone else.
2. They lose initiative.
3. The person that beats them on initiative decides to target them, which depending on who else is around might or might not happen.
4. They actually get attacked hard enough to be killed or disabled in one turn.

Also, the whole vengeance paladin on a pegasus thing is only good on paper, it is not that great in practice.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd be interested in seeing a Redemption Paladin hard at work.

I take 50% damage of all damage that you deal to me.
You take half of the damage I take from you.
I can't attack you, and you have better things to do than attack me. Focus on just outlasting everyone else, using your healing abilities to sustain yourself (you regenerate health when you're at 50% HP) and stack a ton of Constitution. Pack Counterspell in case someone decides to be a jerk and Power Word: Death against you.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Actually think Warlock could be kind of fun; four Eldritch Blast beams that slow, push back 10 feet, and have a 300 range could be annoying as hell, and either the Celestial's healing or THP from Fiend give some survivability. Tomb of Levistus is a one-time get out of jail free card, at-will invisibility, plus, if you have True Polymorph, if people start coming after you, duck behind cover and turn yourself into a rock until everybody kills each other off. It's pretty dependent on tactics/luck, but that would be a fun one to play with.

[noob]

If you had to attend a level 20 BR with 20 players, what would your choice of class/subclass/race/etc be?
The rules are listed below.
Thanks as always!

• No multiclass
• No prep prior to the battles
• Wish and DI are heavily regulated
• It's a battlefield of plains and forests (I don't know the details myself. Sorry)
• Item chests (healing, weapons, etc) will spawn across the battlefield every now and then

Also...I am not sure what prefix this thread should be. Sorry.

Anything with long range teleport.
You go to the place then teleport somewhere far away and then one day later scry and teleport back and you never had to fight and the opponents left to go do other stuff too.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The problem with moon druid is the same problem the likes of nova-machine paladin or barbarians have: they are a huge target and they just fight in the battlefield. Moon druid, especially level 20, is a monster in 1v1. But it almost always leads to everyone just trying to kill you, and succeeding, because you are somewhat of a BBEG on the field. Wizards aren't that good since they get no preparation to do all the crazy shenanigans...especially with limited wish applications. From what I've seen the winners are usually the sneaky ones that don't also burn out resources too quickly.

Interestingly with a little preparation, I've seen a vengeance paladin ride a pegasus with haste and just snipe the crap out of anyone at will and get out really quickly.

If you survived the to your first turn just go underground, full cover.

[BlackRose]

What kind of items/gold do you start with? A good chunk of spells require costly material components that might not even be available, or will spellcasters have access to the consumables and other components not readily available through focuses/component pouches?

[hwem]

What kind of items/gold do you start with? A good chunk of spells require costly material components that might not even be available, or will spellcasters have access to the consumables and other components not readily available through focuses/component pouches?

I am not too sure. The DMs said we will have loots of items, weapons, etc spawn across the field. Sorry, that's all I know.

[Bloodcloud]

Thanks everyone for the insights so far. I initially thought moon druid, open hand monk, and zealot barbarians would be the way to go. But I can definitely see why they wouldn't do too well on paper in battle royale, not 1v1, where many will go after that large crosshair on your back while sneaky subclasses will be exceptionally good. For rogues, rangers, and such...what would be the best subclasses?

Moon druid in earth elemental form can elude detection real good by digging though...

Warlock is all about long range sniping in this scenario. Spel sniper and long rage eblast evocation. Also, depending on how long the thing last, Dream can actually shine here... Assuming you get a look at the other players or "know" them. Basically, teleport/ethereal out far, hide, cast dream repeatedly while alluding detection and occasionnally sniping with your long range eblast. If your imp famlilar can recover hairs or other such things from opponent, you get to slowly cripple them and prevent their healing. Sleep hidden on the ethereal plane, cast dream X4, short rest, repeat. Use your familiar as scout, snipe from afar anything that comes in range.

[Ganymede]

Oh, 1000000% the answer is Moon Druid.

It’s utterly broken at lv20. Unlimited Wild Shape? Seriously? Cast your highest damaging Concentration spell, go Earth Elemental and hide in the ground. You have Tremorsense so you’ll know when anyone is moving on the ground, so you know where to strike.

In all honesty, your table should universally agree to outright ban Druids from this event. I mean that.

If we're doing a Battle Royale, it is safe to assume the other combatants know the druid can do this. Which is more likely: the other combatants killing each other, guaranteeing the moon druid the victory, or the other combatants temporarily teaming up to weather the moon druid's onslaught?

[hwem]

Thanks everyone for the answers so far!

[noob]

If we're doing a Battle Royale, it is safe to assume the other combatants know the druid can do this. Which is more likely: the other combatants killing each other, guaranteeing the moon druid the victory, or the other combatants temporarily teaming up to weather the moon druid's onslaught?

Or we can assume all the combatants are moon druids or wizards or sorcerers or warlocks.
Spells can grant results in a short time and casting invisibility is easier than using the hide skill: for using the hide skill you need to move behind something that obscures you or getting some way of obscuring your surroundings(the latter again being easier with spellcasting or with hax strength abuse but the latter is harder in 5e than in 3.5)
Or we have planeshift cleric team and they all planeshift to random planes and then stop worrying about that fight because it is a great solution.

[hwem]

Wouldn't an EK do really well as well? EK eventually get spells like haste and blink and with shield and absorb element, it seem like a tanky fighter that can dish out tons of damage (via multiple attacks) while having means to close in distance and/or retreat via haste and blink.

So I'm thinking EK and some rogue archetypes would be powerful. Thanks again.

[Particle_Man]

Fighter (archer) Champion might actually not be too bad here (yay Katniss!), if you take a background to get Stealth. The Survivor ability keeps you hp going, and you won't be as obvious a target as the Moon Druid.

That said, high level Monks have no weak saving throws, so that is nice.

[greenstone]

Wizard.

Summon nasty things (demons, angels, big elementals, whatever), plane shift, wait.
Repeat until no one else is left standing.

[sithlordnergal]

So, I'd actually go with a Human Variant Moon Druid. Max out your Dex and Wisdom, and grab the Alert feat. The goal is to go first in the initiative, cause as a Moon Druid you only need one round to win. As soon as your turn comes around, cast Storm of Vengeance, making sure to specify that you are not using any Verbal or Somatic components thanks to Beast Spells, turn into an Earth Elemental, sink underground, and wait.

EDIT: If you're worried you'll be targeted as the Moon Druid, snag Rogue and go hide in the woods. Max out your stealth, and snipe people.

[HoodedHero007]

Wizard. Preferably Conjuration. You can just take a quick jaunt to the Quasi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing (Alternatively, Elysium). Sit back, sip tea, wait an hour or two. Once you come back, drop a summon on your enemies, or just True Polymorph into a Dragon. Because Dragons.

[vexedart]

I think I’m leaning on bladesinger. Plane shift or mords mansion yourself a way for a while, let them beat each other to death until only the stealthy characters or casters that fly are left, run around with AMF on and bladesong (you’re pretty quick) catch them and beat them to death, rinse and repeat. Even druids shapeshifting doesnt work in AMF(it’s magical). Short of that, forcecage exists too. So does leominds tiny hut for a FOB. And you can still counterspell a sorcerer if it’s a spell that needs a material component, subtle spell only works vs somatic, and verbal. And both need to make an arcana check to identify the spell being cast, which the wizard has as the primary attribute.

Or really cheese it and craft whatever tricks you’ll need in the astral plane and show them the true meaning of preparation.

Pvp in d&d is kind of lame though, imo, definitely varies by level, and was never designed with it in mind I believe, but I do enjoy the thought expiriment. Still curious to see what other people’s thoughts are on it.

[HoodedHero007]

Or really cheese it and craft whatever tricks you’ll need in the astral plane and show them the true meaning of preparation.

Go to Limbo instead. Wizards have high intelligence, so just create a nice gravity-less Icosahedral fortress, and when you're about to Plane Shift back, create a bunch of Explosives, utilising Unlimited Every Military Weapon Works.