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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    You can make basically every good decision and get that ending though if you aren't familiar with the arcane background reputation mechanics in the series, so I'm not sure that qualifies.
    Good decision on the eyes of whom? your sister? the foreigners that know no Valerians except your friends and those trying to kill them? The soldiers under your command? The rep. mechanics reflect on how the every day citizen of the island feels with you going around murdering people in random encounters and the things you do that you think are "good" end up with you getting shot because your only filter was the 30 or so people who've been around you all the time. And in the end it never mattered because once you do the ending scene neither greater nation can keep out of your island and risk the other getting it, so you are dooming your country to become a battleground. Matter of fact is, despite all its noble dressings, up to the end you were a pawn for one of them anyways, and the entire campaign was started by the proxy of the other.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    It isn't? I've not played it myself, but I am sure I heard that every game eventually ends in a loss.
    I'm sure a good enough Dwarf Fortress player could keep their fortress going long enough to get bored and start a new one--I'm not that player, though, so I can't judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    I'm thinking... it's also rare in movies where the good guys lose. They exist, though.
    True, but a movie is two or three hours long and isn't interactive in any way. Losing at the end of a 10+ hour game, where you played everything right but the game itself is rigged so you can only lose, would not be a pleasant experience. Heck, even when this is unintentional it's not pleasant--for instance, many years ago I played Midwinter 2: Flames of Freedom on my Amiga, and after many hours of play and many islands liberated, I got the message that the enemy fleet had set sail and I was to assist with the defence. 20 seconds later, I got the "Game over" screen, because apparently the enemy fleet had teleported from their base to my island. Pretty sure that was a bug, but it didn't make it any more pleasant when it happened.
    Last edited by factotum; 2019-02-03 at 01:08 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Not a game recommendation, but OP reminded me of an encounter in Baldur's Gate 2. Towards the end of the game your high-level party meets some low-level adventurers, who immediately insult and attack you. After you slaughter them they load the save from before the battle and then act completely deferential towards you instead. You could even play the part and send them off to some meaningless quest if you wanted.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Shadow of the Colossus. You spend the game fulfilling the terms of what's effectively a deal with the Devil, and in the end, you get possessed and sealed away.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    It isn't? I've not played it myself, but I am sure I heard that every game eventually ends in a loss.
    Straight from the dwarf's mouth:

    http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Losing

    There is no internal end point, single goal, final Easter egg or "You Win!" announcement in Dwarf Fortress. Therefore, eventually, almost every fortress will fall. The only ones that don't tend to be very conservative and very boring—and what fun is that? Thus, DF = losing ∧ DF = fun ⇒ losing = fun, and that's okay!
    It's a very amusing part of DF culture.
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Straight from the dwarf's mouth:

    http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Losing



    It's a very amusing part of DF culture.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    I mean Tyranny with an infinite number of asterisks and player choices and stuff
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Maybe the first Age of Wonders, when siding with one of the evil factions?

    While you can win the last scenario, the possible endings for your protagonist hero in the epilogue all suck, IIRC.


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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Losing in Dwarf Fortress is not the intended experience, although it's the one most people will get because game is hard, yo.
    Yes it is. It absolutely is. In fact, this is one of the main cornerstones of Dwarf Fortress is that you cannot win Dwarf Fortress, and therefore every time, you will lose. But the game is enjoyable, so losing = fun.

    This is even explicitly called out on the Dwarf Fortress Wiki.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Questionable as to whether you're the bad guy, but in Drakengard your party consists of a mute who is only capable of violence, a pedophile, and a cannibal.

    And everyone loses, because that's how those games roll.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the original 'Mafia'. The graphics are a bit dated, it's copyright 2002, but it's quite a fun game, and I recall it fondly, and it definitely meets the "play as a bad guy and lose" motif pretty well.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the original 'Mafia'. The graphics are a bit dated, it's copyright 2002, but it's quite a fun game, and I recall it fondly, and it definitely meets the "play as a bad guy and lose" motif pretty well.
    I think Mafia 3 probably qualifies as well, but it does depend on how you play the game. One of the endings has your character get blown up in his car just after winning control of the entire city.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    danzibr gives one pattern where the player stops playing as soon as s/he wins. I have a number of video games, some JRPGs, some visual novels, where there are a lot of endings, and I would want to play to see them all. Sometimes many of these endings would count as losing, especially in the visual novels, so a pattern might be: lose, lose, lose, win, lose, lose, lose, lose. And by my moral standards, some of the visual novels involve playing as bad guys throughout, even if the game developers might not have thought so.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World has a pretty memorable one, potentially. Spoilers just in case.

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    In the final battle, you play as the villainously-possessed main character, fighting against your former party. If you win the final battle, you get the bad ending of the game. If you lose the final battle (which you almost have to do deliberately), the game proceeds on the assumption that there was still good in you and you get the good ending.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    danzibr gives one pattern where the player stops playing as soon as s/he wins. I have a number of video games, some JRPGs, some visual novels, where there are a lot of endings, and I would want to play to see them all. Sometimes many of these endings would count as losing, especially in the visual novels, so a pattern might be: lose, lose, lose, win, lose, lose, lose, lose. And by my moral standards, some of the visual novels involve playing as bad guys throughout, even if the game developers might not have thought so.
    Hmm I meant to say you keep winning, opponent/good guy keeps reloading, then you lose so they progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World has a pretty memorable one, potentially. Spoilers just in case.

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    In the final battle, you play as the villainously-possessed main character, fighting against your former party. If you win the final battle, you get the bad ending of the game. If you lose the final battle (which you almost have to do deliberately), the game proceeds on the assumption that there was still good in you and you get the good ending.
    Oh yeah! Forgot about that game. Liked it a lot (except for the ol’ ppl not leveling up).
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    As a DM, I deal with character death by cheering and giving a fist pump, or maybe a V-for-victory sign. I would also pat myself on the back, but I can't really reach around like that.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    I mean Tyranny with an infinite number of asterisks and player choices and stuff
    I don't think you lose Tyranny as much as you don't really win.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Several of the endings are nothing but you losing.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    I feel like most of these and just bad endings. Not 'you play as the bad guy, and the hero is literally unbeatable.'
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I feel like most of these and just bad endings. Not 'you play as the bad guy, and the hero is literally unbeatable.'
    Because I'm pretty sure a game like that doesn't exist.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    A game that was mentioned where you are (may be??) the bad guy is Shadow of the Colossus. Arguable that the plot is up to interpretation, but it very much seems like you stole a princess because you loved her, she may or may not have any idea who you are, steal a holy sword, go to the forbidden land, kill the ecosystem, become a shadow demon, and then as mentioned literally cannot beat the priests sent to contain you.

    Also seriously recommending and seconding Spec Ops : The Line. It could almost be described as "whoops i was a mass murdering psycho who thought he was the protagonist" the game. But seriously a good game. Heart of Darkness / Apocalypse Now type plot.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Oh, uh ... Mark of the Ninja. Oh god yes, the bad ending for Mark of the Ninja is way dark.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Would Spec Ops: the Line count? You go over the line pretty much at the start of the game and by the end, I couldnt' even tell you what winning looks like anymore.
    I would also suggest Spec Ops: The Line.

    Oh, your character definitely thinks he’s the hero. But by the end, you are revealed to be nothing more than a monster who was injected into a bad situation and somehow made it significantly worse. You can choose to walk away and live with your mistakes, but you can also choose to pay the ultimate price or become an even greater monster.
    Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2019-02-06 at 10:56 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I feel like most of these and just bad endings. Not 'you play as the bad guy, and the hero is literally unbeatable.'
    Yeah, that game doesn't exist, because it would in no way be fun to play. If someone did make it, no one would buy it.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Yeah, that game doesn't exist, because it would in no way be fun to play. If someone did make it, no one would buy it.
    I was thinking to make like a 5 minute game where exactly this happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    As a DM, I deal with character death by cheering and giving a fist pump, or maybe a V-for-victory sign. I would also pat myself on the back, but I can't really reach around like that.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Yeah, that game doesn't exist, because it would in no way be fun to play. If someone did make it, no one would buy it.
    Ironically, I was just thinking about something I'd once heard about Serious Sam 3. IIRC, if somebody pirated the game, it would spawn in an invincible enemy to come pester them to death.
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    You become what you behold. A flash game about media. It doesn't end well for anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    Ironically, I was just thinking about something I'd once heard about Serious Sam 3. IIRC, if somebody pirated the game, it would spawn in an invincible enemy to come pester them to death.
    Wich, if memory serves, only made more people pirate it just to see it with their own eyes.
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast View Post
    I would also suggest Spec Ops: The Line.

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    Are you sure you want to spoil it like this? How the ending turns out is for me one of the biggest appeals of the game.


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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    I'll 5th(?) DF. And on a similar not there's also Evil Genius, although I'm pretty sure you can win that one.

    Shin Megami Tensei series also has several games where you can lose/get bad endings (usually the world/universe ending).

    FF XIII-2 has the BBEG win, with Thanos level consequences even. And that's after a good 30+ hours of playing (depending on how quickly you move through the game). I thought it worked great for the story being told, but then I'm weird and am okay with the heroes not always winning, cause that's how life works.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World has a pretty memorable one, potentially. Spoilers just in case.

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    In the final battle, you play as the villainously-possessed main character, fighting against your former party. If you win the final battle, you get the bad ending of the game. If you lose the final battle (which you almost have to do deliberately), the game proceeds on the assumption that there was still good in you and you get the good ending.
    Wait, what really?

    I played that game and didn't know that.
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    Now I'm trying to remember what ending I actually GOT from that. Did I win or lose? aaaaagh I can't remember, it was so long ago.

    I definitely remember finishing it, but I can't remember the actual ending, ironically....
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wookieetank View Post
    FF XIII-2 has the BBEG win, with Thanos level consequences even. And that's after a good 30+ hours of playing (depending on how quickly you move through the game). I thought it worked great for the story being told, but then I'm weird and am okay with the heroes not always winning, cause that's how life works.
    And if you spend even longer grinding out everything and getting all 12 main endings for the super secret 13th ending he wins even more.

    Though you weren't the bad guy, you were trying to stop him. You just didn't know what you were doing.

    Also the FFXIII trilogy largely runs on the basis that a major step in the villain's plan involves you killing him. Destroying Barthandelus and Orphan in FFXIII is exactly what he wanted you to do, and only doesn't doom all humanity because of outside divine intervention that neither of you could have predicted and wasn't explained at all in the game anyway because Square Enix have decided that coherent storytelling is far too passe for such an avant-garde series (What? You wanted to know what the driving character motivations of Noctis were in FFXV? Guess you should have watched the Kingsglaive movie then!)

    (I do not know if the boss of Lightning Returns intends for you to kill him at the end, I did not get on with it, I suspect not because the whole cosmology of the world happened because he was fixated on avoiding death via entropy)


    I can't think of anything that really explicitly fits the OP mechanically, a game where you are narratively the villain and in the end are faced with a mechanically impossible final boss which you have to accept defeat to. (Players always whine about those).

    There is, however, the Legacy of Kain series and Kain's position in it. As he goes through the first game merrily slaughtering the guardians of the pillars of the world (okay they're kinda doing their jobs wrong but still, pillars of the world sound pretty important, right?) it's pretty clear he's at least somewhat villainous. (Also the whole drinking the blood of the innocent thing, because vampire).

    At the end of the game though he's left with a choice. Doom the world by destroying the pillars themselves, or redeem it by killing the final guardian, himself. Also the last vampire making the entire species extinct.

    So he can either have vampires rule over a doomed and dying world, or have them extinct by his own hand. You lose either way. (Canonically he then spends several more games of extremely confused continuity trying to make a coin flip land on its edge so he doesn't lose).


    So it kinda depends what you mean lose. If you mean "villainous protagonist doesn't get anything he wanted or needed and now everything is wrong forever", yeah there are games that do that.

    But if you mean "villainous protagonist is confronted with mechanically impossible final challenge and player's only recourse is to accept defeat", I can't think of any. If any game were going to do that it would have been Undertale.

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