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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rooster707's Avatar

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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Oh, uh ... Mark of the Ninja. Oh god yes, the bad ending for Mark of the Ninja is way dark.
    Just out of curiosity, which one would you say that is?

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    I picked the one where you kill yourself and that one didn't seem super dark. IIRC it's kind of morally ambiguous though?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    What this guy said.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Lord Raziere's Avatar

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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    But if you mean "villainous protagonist is confronted with mechanically impossible final challenge and player's only recourse is to accept defeat", I can't think of any. If any game were going to do that it would have been Undertale.
    Yeah. would've been real easy to: just have Sans never fall asleep so your on perpetual bone zone megalovania loop. Sans truly would be unbeatable, because it'd be a fight that never ends.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Forum Explorer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Fixler View Post
    A game that was mentioned where you are (may be??) the bad guy is Shadow of the Colossus. Arguable that the plot is up to interpretation, but it very much seems like you stole a princess because you loved her, she may or may not have any idea who you are, steal a holy sword, go to the forbidden land, kill the ecosystem, become a shadow demon, and then as mentioned literally cannot beat the priests sent to contain you.
    I'll say that counts. You do become some weird demon monster and get shut down in an unbeatable fight that you actually play out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yeah. would've been real easy to: just have Sans never fall asleep so your on perpetual bone zone megalovania loop. Sans truly would be unbeatable, because it'd be a fight that never ends.
    It would be kinda neat if his pen-ultimate attack just never stopped. But that would've really cheapened the impact of that route.
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    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

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    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  4. - Top - End - #64
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    It would be kinda neat if his pen-ultimate attack just never stopped. But that would've really cheapened the impact of that route.
    I'm not sure.

    I think it would have made a similar point, the "you just couldn't let go" part that made you do all this grinding for not really any reward just because you could, rejecting the ideas in the other route that people grow and change from within themselves not from looking for outside validation in stuff (O hai Alphys) because here you are still fiddling with the stuff. Trapping you in an endless loop mechanically because you're clearly not ready to let the game be finished after the proper story, so why should it let you be finished now would be another way of expressing what it does (and because we know what the game's like and this is exactly what it'd do, just binning it to desktop would reload to the exact same state, so the only thing you can ever get out of the game now is a single endless fight).

    I do think the way it does it is better, because of the way it reinforces that you haven't really learned if you go back the other way.

    But it would still have been a mechanically effective way of conveying what that route does*.

    Interesting video plug: Adam Millard, game design thinky person, has done a recent Undertale video which talks a lot about the themes and such.


    * Also that the devil has all the best tunes because damn but Megalovania and Battle against a True Hero are great.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2019-02-06 at 06:32 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Man_Over_Game's Avatar

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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. You play as a guy who kinda accidentally sells his best friend's soul to Hel (as in, the Norse God of her namesake) and gains some super awesome powers by doing so. Then you're told you can sell other people's souls once they trust you. You get a few more NPCs along the way and the more you sacrifice, the stronger you permanently become.

    The final boss (if you're playing the game by sacrificing your friends) has you face off against a Valkyrie and all of the friends you murdered.

    The game is incredibly hard and has lots of interesting and challenging mechanics. On Hard, it was one of the most difficult tactics games I've ever played, and every loss felt like it was my fault. I was pretty dedicated to keeping everyone alive, but it took a while to get there.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
    Banned
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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster707 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, which one would you say that is?

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    I picked the one where you kill yourself and that one didn't seem super dark. IIRC it's kind of morally ambiguous though?
    Um ...

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    They're both pretty dark, no? The game is about psychotic paranoia, and it's never revealed whether you're literally insane for the entirety of the game, murdering your way through an entire games worth of innocents (but heavily hinted that you are).

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Iruka's Avatar

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    Default Re: Any game where you play as the bad guy and lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Um ...

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    They're both pretty dark, no? The game is about psychotic paranoia, and it's never revealed whether you're literally insane for the entirety of the game, murdering your way through an entire games worth of innocents (but heavily hinted that you are).
    Spoiler: Mark of the Ninja
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    As I understood it, the ink of the tattoo drives you crazy over time. You are hallucinating right from the start, the hallucinations just get worse.
    There is of course the question if there are any truly innocents in this game. Random Hessian security guards are probably less guilty of anything than the people you can kill toward the end.

    Both endings are indeed rather bleak, there is no good way out of this.

    Either you stop yourself from becoming a complete monster but let Azai get away, or you stop him and then go most likely on an uncontrolled murder spree.
    Last edited by Iruka; 2019-02-07 at 03:17 AM.


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