Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

[MultitudeMan]

Anyone notice that if the Frost Giant ambush occurred after Durkon had been revived (choose whatever reason you want to explain how or why that would happen) that they would be a minor threat with a couple of buffs since Durkon could fling the hammer and OHKO each of them, if one at a time?

Invisible Haley was pretty much managing that anyway, no wonder she's started loving Greater Invisibility!

[NoHaxJustPi]

I AM POINTY DEATH INCARNATE.
Yes, yes. Magic is very nice.

[Borris]

Anyone notice that if the Frost Giant ambush occurred after Durkon had been revived (choose whatever reason you want to explain how or why that would happen) that they would be a minor threat with a couple of buffs since Durkon could fling the hammer and OHKO each of them, if one at a time?

The death effect on the Hammer of Thunderbolts is a DC 20 Fortitude save. A generic Frost Giant has a Fortitude save of +14 so, even if Durkon hits, there's only a 25% chance the effect will trigger. Give that giant just two levels of cleric or fighter (and the elite array that goes with it), and the Fortitude save likely goes up to at least +19, meaning that giant saves on a 2 and only gets killed on a natural 1. For an artifact, the Hammer of Thunderbolts is really bad at slaying giants of your level or higher.

[Zenzis]

They do when wielding the Hammer of Thunderbolts. It is one of its properties.

Grey Wolf

allows all belt and gauntlet bonuses to stack

This is a really interesting property. It seems easiest to abuse with some extra arms (or waists? Are there creatures with more than one waist?) but it feels like you could get some mileage out of applying activated effects too.

[CriticalFailure]

This is a really interesting property. It seems easiest to abuse with some extra arms (or waists? Are there creatures with more than one waist?) but it feels like you could get some mileage out of applying activated effects too.

Two kobolds?

[Rogar Demonblud]

This is a really interesting property. It seems easiest to abuse with some extra arms (or waists? Are there creatures with more than one waist?) but it feels like you could get some mileage out of applying activated effects too.

I don't know about two waists, but for four arms there's a thri-keen.

[monomer]

This is a really interesting property. It seems easiest to abuse with some extra arms (or waists? Are there creatures with more than one waist?) but it feels like you could get some mileage out of applying activated effects too.

Would a Centaur (or other similar hybrid creature) have two waists? Like, does the section ahead of its hips count as such?

[rferries]

Invisible Haley was pretty much managing that anyway, no wonder she's started loving Greater Invisibility!

That comic was a (fun) example of plot over mechanics. Haley + V's damage would only have been 19d6+5 total, nowhere near enough to kill all the giants directly even by rolling max damage. All the giants had to have rolled natural 1's on their Fortitude saves against death from massive damage.

[Ephemera]

Would a Centaur (or other similar hybrid creature) have two waists? Like, does the section ahead of its hips count as such?

Giant centipede? However...the text doesn’t say anything about allowing the user to wield extra gloves/belts, just to allow the effects to stack, so even though it says “all gloves and belts” (which, granted is a funny way to say it for a creature that can normally only wear one pair of gloves and one belt), it’s probably a question of whether, generally, there are creatures who can wear (and benefit from) multiple magical belts. I’m guessing the answer is “no” that all creatures have the same number of magic item slots but I have no clue whether that’s actually true.

[InvisibleBison]

That comic was a (fun) example of plot over mechanics. Haley + V's damage would only have been 19d6+5 total, nowhere near enough to kill all the giants directly even by rolling max damage. All the giants had to have rolled natural 1's on their Fortitude saves against death from massive damage.

How are you getting those damage numbers? Unless I'm missing something, V's fireball would be 17d6 x 1.5 because frost giants are vulnerable to fire, and Haley's arrows would be 1d8 + 8d6 + 5. Assuming the giants fail their saves, that's an average of 126 damage, and a maximum of 214.

[rferries]

How are you getting those damage numbers? Unless I'm missing something, V's fireball would be 17d6 x 1.5 because frost giants are vulnerable to fire, and Haley's arrows would be 1d8 + 8d6 + 5. Assuming the giants fail their saves, that's an average of 126 damage, and a maximum of 214.

Gah you're correct! I'll revise it to "they had to roll above-average damage all 4 times" then.

[locksmith of lo]

Would a Centaur (or other similar hybrid creature) have two waists? Like, does the section ahead of its hips count as such?

i guess it depends on how a centaur would wear pants.

[zimmerwald1915]

How are you getting those damage numbers? Unless I'm missing something, V's fireball would be 17d6 x 1.5 because frost giants are vulnerable to fire, and Haley's arrows would be 1d8 + 8d6 + 5. Assuming the giants fail their saves, that's an average of 126 damage, and a maximum of 214.

Fireball caps at 10d6.

[Borris]

Fireball caps at 10d6.

Still, counting vulnerability, a full fireball deals an average of 52.5 damage (assuming a failed reflex save), and a maximum of 90.

Added to Haley's damage, that's an average of 90 and a maximum of 151.

[Sniccups]

Two things about Durkon:

1: He's level 13. The vampire was 15 (as is already listed) and he lost two levels. This has already been noted in the thread.

2: He has a Belt of Giant Strength of some sort, in order to use the Hammer of Thunderbolts to its full power.

[Ephemera]

Two things about Durkon

2: He has a Belt of Giant Strength of some sort, in order to use the Hammer of Thunderbolts to its full power.

Actually, I don’t think we know that. As I read the text the “and knows it is a hammer of thunderbolts” bit, you need the knowledge and the belt and gauntlets to unlock the +5 bonus, the stacking of belt and gauntlets effects, and the death effect on giants. The +3, returning, and thunderbolt (the latter of which come in the next paragraph) seem to be independent of having knowledge or of having the belt and gauntlets. It’s vaguely ambiguous, but I think the new paragraph makes pretty clear which effects are unlocked and it doesn’t include the thunder sound or returning, so we haven’t actually seen visual evidence that he’s unlocked the extra effects, hence we don’t know for sure that he has gauntlets and belt.

Is it extremely likely that he does? Sure, but not necessarily to the standards of this thread yet, imo.

[Resileaf]

He does have a brand new belt, so there is an argument to make that he does have a belt of strength.

It is however not confirmed.

[Hiro Quester]

Elan makes an illusion with sound in 455. He is not listed as knowing Minor image, only Silent image, though.

You need minor image to be able to make illusions with sound.

[understatement]

His illusion has understandable speech. So, major image.

[Reboot]

And we explicitly know he has Major Image

[b_jonas]

I'd like to comment on Tarquin and his possible infinite deflection. I've previously said that Tarquin is probably not wearing gauntlets because the gauntlets would be shown in the art. I've changed my mind now.

The reason is the Good Deeds Gone Unpunished book. In the “Spoiler Alert” story in page 36, we learn that Therkla has been wearing gauntlets all the time. The gauntlets are visible in the new art style used in GDGU: her hands are filled with a different color than the skin on her face. But the gauntlets are not visible in the old art style, which is why I didn't notice the gauntlets before. So I must conclude that non-metalic gauntlets aren't actually visible in the drawings in the old art style. We haven't seen Tarquin in the new art style yet, so he might indeed have been wearing magical gauntlets all the time. (In fact, he was probably wearing some kind of magical gauntlets, but they might be magical in a different way than arrow snaring.)

[danielxcutter]

I'd like to comment on Tarquin and his possible infinite deflection. I've previously said that Tarquin is probably not wearing gauntlets because the gauntlets would be shown in the art. I've changed my mind now.

The reason is the Good Deeds Gone Unpunished book. In the “Spoiler Alert” story in page 36, we learn that Therkla has been wearing gauntlets all the time. The gauntlets are visible in the new art style used in GDGU: her hands are filled with a different color than the skin on her face. But the gauntlets are not visible in the old art style, which is why I didn't notice the gauntlets before. So I must conclude that non-metalic gauntlets aren't actually visible in the drawings in the old art style. We haven't seen Tarquin in the new art style yet, so he might indeed have been wearing magical gauntlets all the time. (In fact, he was probably wearing some kind of magical gauntlets, but they might be magical in a different way than arrow snaring.)

Those are probably gloves, not gauntlets, but yeah. In Therkla's case, likely Gloves of Dexterity to be specific.

[Hiro Quester]

Haley is listed as having UMD of 7+. It has to be higher than that now, given she is a few levels higher, and is now using wands with impunity.

With a decent Charisma, and a few more ranks since being able to use the scroll in the desert, she is probably 12+ now, and able to regularly pass the DC 20 UMD check to use a wand.

[Ghosty]

He does have a brand new belt, so there is an argument to make that he does have a belt of strength.

It is however not confirmed.

I don't know, but has the Giant previously drawn characters in Plate armor with belts, as just an art feature, and not indicating that the belt had any magical properties? I tend to think it'd be awfully silly to direct Durkon to a returning, crackling magic hammer, and a new set of gauntlets to wear with it, all under a statue of Thor, and not also include the strength belt to unlock all of the hammer's features. But I agree that all we've seen is that the hammer crackles with what looks like electrical energy, and it returns.

As to the V and Fireball dice question, has V ever cast Delayed Blast Fireball, and if so, would you think that V would announce the delayed blast part if it was set to instantaneously detonate anyway? DB Fireball caps at 20d6.

[Resileaf]

I don't know, but has the Giant previously drawn characters in Plate armor with belts, as just an art feature, and not indicating that the belt had any magical properties? I tend to think it'd be awfully silly to direct Durkon to a returning, crackling magic hammer, and a new set of gauntlets to wear with it, all under a statue of Thor, and not also include the strength belt to unlock all of the hammer's features. But I agree that all we've seen is that the hammer crackles with what looks like electrical energy, and it returns.

I mean I'm pretty sure it's a hammer of thunderbolts myself, i'm just saying that it's not entirely confirmed.

[Reboot]

As to the V and Fireball dice question, has V ever cast Delayed Blast Fireball, and if so, would you think that V would announce the delayed blast part if it was set to instantaneously detonate anyway? DB Fireball caps at 20d6.

Yes and no. V did cast it...but while soul-spliced.

Still, the verbal component's the spell name, and V's a pedant. You think V would just say "fireball" for DBF?

[Ghosty]

Yes and no. V did cast it...but while soul-spliced.

Still, the verbal component's the spell name, and V's a pedant. You think V would just say "fireball" for DBF?

True, but the comic's lampshaded before when characters were casting much lower spells than you'd expect at a given point in a fight. Malack and Durkon did it to each other, for one. At the point where V casted the fireball in question, and given what the rest of you have shown about expected damage from Haley's arrows, I wouldn't think that V would think that would do enough damage to kill them in one round. Hence using the fireball with the higher cap. Especially when V should still have most of hir slots still filled.

But if V used DB Fireball already, many strips ago, and announced it when doing so, I guess we can infer that V's not announcing it this time meant it was a regular fireball. So Rule of Cool (and it was a great scene) over Rule of RAW. Not using DB Fireball means more slots for Forcecage anyway

[Reboot]

But if V used DB Fireball already, many strips ago, and announced it when doing so,...

Yup: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0638.html

Not using DB Fireball means more slots for Forcecage anyway

Well, V's standard for a daily spell list appears to be to only bother with a single forcecage :p

[Ephemera]

I mean I'm pretty sure it's a hammer of thunderbolts myself, i'm just saying that it's not entirely confirmed.

I mean, I’d be willing to say that it is likely enough a hammer of thunderbolts that I’d be comfortable listing it. I’m saying that even so we can’t totally confirm the belt, even though it would be pretty silly for it to be something else.

[zimmerwald1915]

Well, V's standard for a daily spell list appears to be to only bother with a single forcecage :p

Each forcecage casting costs me 1,500 gp in ruby dust, and one does not keep Miss Starshine's company for long before growing a sense of frugality.

Plus you need it for eyeshadow.

I told you that in confidence, you dolt!