The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Obscuraphile's Avatar

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MultitudeMan View Post
    My respect for the original designer(s) of the Hammer of Thunderbolts has just substantially increased.
    If you want to be really nerdy, in the original myth the hammer was created as part of a contest. Loki stole Sif's hair, and Thor threatened to damage him. So Loki went and tricked two sets of craftsmen into creating three gifts. But one of the craftsmen got wise and said if his side won he got to keep Loki's head. So Loki sabotaged their work and the result was that Thor's hammer had a short haft. Another possible reason for the hammer to be named the Hammer of Loki Sucks.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Remind me, how do we know that Blackwing is male?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Remind me, how do we know that Blackwing is male?
    V seems to use male pronouns for him.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenzis View Post
    Right, thanks.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Removed Durkon's armor, shield, and deceased status; replaced his warhammer; added gauntlets of ogre power and MWP:Warhammer feat. Fixed link for Spellsplinter, Belkar's spellcraft, Greg's wis and cha, and Minrah's alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Durkon is listed as deceased, maybe that should be changed now?
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nith View Post
    And his item list includes his old armor, shield and hammer, but not the new (unknown magic) hammer (of Thor). Maybe update that?
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscuraphile View Post
    If you want to be really nerdy, in the original myth the hammer was created as part of a contest. Loki stole Sif's hair, and Thor threatened to damage him. So Loki went and tricked two sets of craftsmen into creating three gifts. But one of the craftsmen got wise and said if his side won he got to keep Loki's head. So Loki sabotaged their work and the result was that Thor's hammer had a short haft.
    Yes, plus Thor can effectively fly by throwing his hammer and not letting go of it (so it drags him along). For anyone unfamiliar with Norse mythology, I recommend the recent interpretation by Neil Gaiman.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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  6. - Top - End - #36
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Removed Durkon's armor, shield, and deceased status; replaced his warhammer; added gauntlets of ogre power and MWP:Warhammer feat.
    Why have you listed him as L12? He should be L13 (15-2, based on Durkula's Symbol of Death. L14 was out of date)

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by BardicLasher View Post
    ...Weirdly, that doesn't say anything about FLYING.
    No, it doesn't. I assume it works in the same way, but couldn't find specific rules for overland flight that is not the spell Overland Flight.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    No, it doesn't. I assume it works in the same way, but couldn't find specific rules for overland flight that is not the spell Overland Flight.
    It doesn't say, but it's pretty easy to figure out. You use the Movement and Distance table, and you treat all terrain as not impeding you (◊1), outside of situations like constant winds.

    The only real question is whether you can Hustle or not. Overland Flight specifically allows it; I would say that other magical means of flight generally don't unless they say they do, since Overland Flight spells it out and is specifically intended for that use. Wings (or other physical methods of locomotion) probably allow you hustle, but you exert yourself as usual.

    Note that a Carpet of Flying specifically functions as Overland Flight and is therefore capable of hustling.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-02-04 at 12:11 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    It doesn't say, but it's pretty easy to figure out. You use the Movement and Distance table, and you treat all terrain as not impeding you (◊1), outside of situations like constant winds.

    The only real question is whether you can Hustle or not. Overland Flight specifically allows it; I would say that other magical means of flight generally don't unless they say they do, since Overland Flight spells it out and is specifically intended for that use. Wings (or other physical methods of locomotion) probably allow you hustle, but you exert yourself as usual.

    Note that a Carpet of Flying specifically functions as Overland Flight and is therefore capable of hustling.
    Some interesting things:

    Quote Originally Posted by Overland Flight on SRD
    This spell functions like a fly spell, except you can fly at a speed of 40 feet (30 feet if wearing medium or heavy armor, or if carrying a medium or heavy load) with average maneuverability. When using this spell for long-distance movement, you can hustle without taking nonlethal damage (a forced march still requires Constitution checks). This means you can cover 64 miles in an eight-hour period of flight (or 48 miles at a speed of 30 feet).
    This corroborates with the idea of using the same rules for fatigue, since it states the exception that hustle doesn't cause fatigue, but reinstates that forced march may cause it. What's more, it establishes an eight-hour period of movement, just as with ground move.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carpet of Flying on SRD
    This rug is able to fly through the air as if affected by an overland flight spell of unlimited duration. [...]
    Since it works as Overland Flight, does the carpet "get tired"?
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    It's one of the ten defined "knowledge" skills, dealing with the planes. It's used to, among other things, identify outsiders and their abilities, and to know the properties of various planes (morphology, gravity, alignment, etc.).

    Miko refers to her "knowledge of demons" and demonstrates knowledge of the abilities of the demon-roaches (who, being demons, are Outsiders). Knowledge of any sort is trained-only with a few exceptions - the main ones being checks with DCs below 10 can be made untrained, as can all knowledge checks made by a Bard - but Miko's demonstration falls into neither major exception. It therefore stands to reason that she has ranks in Knowledge (the planes).


    I know it's been a while now, and that it in no way advances the thread, but I just wanted to thank you Zimmerwald. Your explanation was very easy to understand and very very warm (especially because I feel that this is pretty common sense to most people here). Thank you for being kind!

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    The link to Roy's "Improved Unarmed Strike" citation has an extra 0 before 1070.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Thor also had a Belt of Strength. Huh.
    Might not be a coincidence. Plenty of classic D&D items and spells are based on preŽxisting myth, legend, and fiction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    added gauntlets of ogre power and MWP:Warhammer feat.
    From the SRD:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency...
    A cleric who chooses the War domain receives the Weapon Focus feat related to his deityís weapon as a bonus feat. He also receives the appropriate Martial Weapon Proficiency feat as a bonus feat, if the weapon falls into that category.
    Durkon has carried a hammer ab initio. Do we have any other evidence of Durkon having the War domain?

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Aren't we making an assumption that the gloves are magic items? What if they are just insulated gloves to protect from electricity?

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Durkon has carried a hammer ab initio. Do we have any other evidence of Durkon having the War domain?
    Not really. Evidences for War Domain would be Weapon Proficiency (which he has, but that could be acquired without the domain), Weapon Focus (which he has not demonstrated yet, and could very well have appeared here if he had), and the casting of Domain spells (this one is tricky, because all War Domain spells are general Cleric spells at the same levels, so it's harder to know if they are being cast as domain spells or regular cleric spells).

    OTOH, we know he has the Good Domain, and we've seem him cast a couple of lightning-based spells that aren't part of a regular cleric's list, so it's reasonable to suppose that his second domain is related to lightning/thunder/weather.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Yes, plus Thor can effectively fly by throwing his hammer and not letting go of it (so it drags him along). For anyone unfamiliar with Norse mythology, I recommend the recent interpretation by Neil Gaiman.
    Seconded. It really is a great book.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorSarda View Post
    Aren't we making an assumption that the gloves are magic items? What if they are just insulated gloves to protect from electricity?
    Well, its possible, but shock weapons don't work that way, no amount of insulation can actually protect a target from electricity damage in D&D (although the reverse is not necessarily the case), and it would just be way less cool!

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    OTOH, we know he has the Good Domain, and we've seem him cast a couple of lightning-based spells that aren't part of a regular cleric's list, so it's reasonable to suppose that his second domain is related to lightning/thunder/weather.
    If we assume that Durkon is limited to spells on the standard Cleric list and has two of the standard domains, then one of his domains is Air, because Clerics limited to the standard Cleric list and standard domains do not have access to Control Winds outside of the Air Domain. Chain Lightning - also only available to Clerics through the Air Domain - would probably be a decent fit for Thor's Lightning, though you'd need a house rule to change how secondary targets are selected if Durkon's implication that the secondary targets affected by Thor's Lightning are not entirely within the caster's ability to control is true.

    The Air Domain is also probably a pretty decent fit for a god called the "King of Storms and Thunder."
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-02-06 at 07:04 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    If we assume that Durkon is limited to spells on the standard Cleric list and has two of the standard domains, then one of his domains is Air, because Clerics limited to the standard Cleric list and standard domains do not have access to Control Winds outside of the Air Domain. Chain Lightning - also only available to Clerics through the Air Domain - would probably be a decent fit for Thor's Lightning, though you'd need a house rule to change how secondary targets are selected if Durkon's implication that the secondary targets affected by Thor's Lightning are not entirely within the caster's ability to control is true.

    The Air Domain is also probably a pretty decent fit for a god called the "King of Storms and Thunder."
    Another possibility is to consider the Weather Domain, since it grants Call Lightning, which he's used once. Anyway, my main point is that I don't really think he has War Domain as his second domain.
    Last edited by D.One; 2019-02-07 at 05:17 AM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Obscuraphile View Post
    S
    Well, its possible, but shock weapons don't work that way, no amount of insulation can actually protect a target from electricity damage in D&D (although the reverse is not necessarily the case), and it would just be way less cool!
    So... I thought the purpose of this thread was to stat up the characters as closely as we could based off observation and the Giant's loose following of the rules. Not leaping to conclusions because we want an item to be magical before we see any proof towards it.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    Another possibility is to consider the Weather Domain, since it grants Call Lightning, which he's used once.
    Weather isn't one of the domains listed here so I wasn't counting it as one of the 'standard' domains.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Weather isn't one of the domains listed here so I wasn't counting it as one of the 'standard' domains.
    Agreed.

    We still don't have confirmation, and I believe we'll hardly have, since the strip is much less "rules-declaratory" these days.

    Confirmation of Air Domain would be if he turned earth elementals or rebuker air elementals at any given time.

    Confirmation of Weather Domain is much harder, because its domain power is to have Survival as Class Skill.

    Most of the time, Thor's Lightning seems akin to Lightning Bolt, more than to Chain Lightning or Call Lightning. Do we have any domain that gives Lightning Bolt as a Domain Spell?
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    ArkenBrony's Avatar

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    In Bonus strips from DCF durkon casts call lightning explicitly. Thors lightning has also been called a third level spell by malek. They could be one and the same, but if durkon has a domain that gives call lightning, and definitely has the good domain, what explanation could there be for thorís lightning

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Strictly speaking, since we don't know what domain grants him his weathery spells (Control Winds, whatever Thor's Lightning is, and Call Lightning if we consider that canonical), it's possible that that (presumably homebrewed) domain also grants Holy Smite, and that we thus don't know that he has the Good domain.

    But that would be a really weird domain, and I'm content to assume otherwise.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorSarda View Post
    So... I thought the purpose of this thread was to stat up the characters as closely as we could based off observation and the Giant's loose following of the rules. Not leaping to conclusions because we want an item to be magical before we see any proof towards it.
    Leaping? This feels more like taking the smallest of baby steps.

    There exists in D&D an artifact that is Mjolnir with the serial number filed off. The god Thor told his cleric where to find a hammer hidden in a statue in one of his temples. This hammer emits lighting and was stored with a set of gloves. Thor has a magical belt and a set of gloves which allow him to wield his hammer's full might. The artifact allows gauntlets of ogre power and a belt of giant's strength to stack. This seems like enough evidence to strongly indicate that the gloves are special as well, or why should they be hidden with the hammer. If this isn't confirmed within three pages I'll eat my router.
    Last edited by Obscuraphile; 2019-02-07 at 05:56 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Let me add a caveat: barring a scene change.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    If V prepares Bull's Strength, Roy doesn't need his Belt.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Out of curiosity, do Crystal, Bozzok, or Right-eye not warrant enough information or relevance to have their stats counted?

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Nowhere near enough information. All we know about Right-Eye is Male Goblin Rogue. Crystal is about Haley's level. Bozzok is higher than Haley's level, since he can sneak attack her. That's about it.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    All we know about Right-Eye is Male Goblin Rogue.
    Wait, he's a rogue? How do we know that? I sort of assumed he was a fighter.

    As for Crystal, she has levels in something called Assassin.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Wait, he's a rogue? How do we know that? I sort of assumed he was a fighter.
    Right-Eye mentions being able to sneak attack Xykon during his duel with Dorukan. He could be multiclass, but if so he'd be able to wear heavier armor than he does.

    Assassin is a Core prestige class.

    Actually, if Crystal has the same number of levels as Haley during the Greysky City arc, she should have 15 total levels. She mentions wanting "at least one more Assassin level," meaning that she can't have more than 8. She can't have more than 10 levels in a 10-level class before Epic levels, and if she had 9 levels, she couldn't gain more than one. So we could stat her as a Rogue 7-14/Assassin 1-8 (total level 15). . . at least before she died and became a homebrew golem.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-02-09 at 08:07 PM.

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