The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Awesome, thanks! I got the impression that there are a fair number of alternate archetypes or archetypesque options in 3.5e but they often aren't available in the SRD online? I just kind of assumed there might be something like that O-Chul has.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    There are some options for alternative class features, yes. I don't know of any off the top of my head that would allow a Paladin to substitute WIS for CHA, but it also wouldn't particularly surprise me if there was such an alternative class feature/variant class or a feat that allowed a Paladin to do so somewhere.
    If "somewhere" includes Dragon magazine, the feat is called Serenity.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Is there any indication of Redcloak’s int? He generally comes across as having more than the average cleric/person but I can’t think of much specific.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Purely from the comic, I would guess he'd be around Roy or Haley's level.

    It also says Xykon has ~15, so that should provide some sort of base reference. I feel like it's been concretely mentioned somewhere that RC's smarter/tactically knows more than his boss, but I can't pinpoint. (so just ignore it, I suppose)

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Cylinder should get iirc +3 pts for age and +2 for lich, so ~15 if he started at 10,but he was a dumbass when he was young so I wouldn’t be surprised if he started life with a negative int modifier. It’s hard to compare because X and RC have very different approaches, with RC being extremely methodical and Xykon not really caring. Cylinder still has the moron’s just blast away approach as his default even though he’s gained a decent amount of intelligence. Overall I think Redcloak has higher int than Xykon, but not by a huge margin.

    I would guess people have different takes based on their relationship, my interpretation is that when it comes to manipulating each other Xykon is smart enough to come up with a decent plan but his strongest point is using his extremely high charisma to emotionally manipulate Redcloak and keep him where he wants him in that sense. Whereas Redcloak’s strength is putting his higher int/wis scores into long term planning.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Sooo...15+, then?

    But yeah, I definitely get the "emotionally manipulative" sht-eating vibe from Xykon. He literally traps souls out of spite.

    In honesty, this might be a passable metric -- it's genuinely almost impossible to imagine X thinking three steps ahead. But I don't know if the intelligence is because of their Lawful or Chaotic alignments or just raw scores.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    I think that both shows RC is a pretty smart strategist and that Xykon doesn’t really care about strategy to start with. I can imagine Xykon being as low as 13 based on his pre-lichification behavior (spoiler alert I guess younger Xykon’s evil plans were easily foiled, and teen Xykon failed math 3 times). At least 14 for RC seems like a reasonable guess especially if that’s Roy’s lower limit (I generally get the impression Redcloak is at least as smart as Roy if not more so).

    Redcloak seems to use a lot of knowledge skills for a cleric, but that could just be him prioritizing those things. I don’t think we’ve seen it but I’d be shocked if he didn’t have a very high knowledge (religion) given that religion is very interesting and important to him and he’s also a nerd.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniccups View Post
    Oh, I assumed it was the name of a particular psionic power.
    No, but I think in 3.5 DND it was a term more used for psionicists due to their ability to effectively cast more high-level powers than their arcane counterparts at the cost of not having anything in reserve. A level 20 wizard, no accounting for other stuff like intelligence boosts, "only" got 4 level 9 spells, while a similar calculated level 20 psionicist could effectively cast the equivalent of 17-20, depending how much you boosted the power. The Psionicist suffered from the fact that they couldn't really cast anything else while the wizard would still have 32 non-level 9 spells, and their spells auto-scaled their damage unlike the psionicist's powers.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Why is 670 credited for Xykon's knowing of the Mass Hold Person spell when 11 comics earlier 659 he casts the spell?
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    Wow, i can’t believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rex’s jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    Awesome, thanks! I got the impression that there are a fair number of alternate archetypes or archetypesque options in 3.5e but they often aren't available in the SRD online? I just kind of assumed there might be something like that O-Chul has.
    Well, there is the whole Book of 9 Swords, which was a serious attempt to power up melee types so they weren't completely out-paced by full casters. Otherwise, you're looking at the PHB2 or DMG2 for the basics, or the Rules Compendium for a lot of stuff being kind of collated together. And there is a LOT of stuff, because 3X really had a problem with splatbloat.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Well, there is the whole Book of 9 Swords, which was a serious attempt to power up melee types so they weren't completely out-paced by full casters. Otherwise, you're looking at the PHB2 or DMG2 for the basics, or the Rules Compendium for a lot of stuff being kind of collated together. And there is a LOT of stuff, because 3X really had a problem with splatbloat.
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  12. - Top - End - #252
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    And it kept claiming that right up until it ODed on the stuff.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    And it kept claiming that right up until it ODed on the stuff.
    Didn't prevent it from Weekending at Bernies on for another decade and a half.

  14. - Top - End - #254
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    To be fair, the original 3 LBBs are still swanning about, so it's not like that's unusual or anything.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    I see we already named Durkon's new hammer, but what are the stats on it? Anyone know? (I'm guessing +4 or +5 Returning Shocking Burst at a minimum?)

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I see we already named Durkon's new hammer, but what are the stats on it? Anyone know? (I'm guessing +4 or +5 Returning Shocking Burst at a minimum?)
    As far as we can guess, the hammer is a Hammer of Thunderbolts (ctrl+f to find it).

  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    As far as we can guess, the hammer is a Hammer of Thunderbolts (ctrl+f to find it).
    I mean, it could be a Hammer of Thunderbolts, but there's no stun effect visible in the comic, so it could just be a Dwarven Thrower with a lightning enchantment.


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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Hammer of Thunderbolts (ctrl+f to find it).
    Or click here.


    Quote Originally Posted by LtPowers View Post
    I mean, it could be a Hammer of Thunderbolts, but there's no stun effect visible in the comic, so it could just be a Dwarven Thrower with a lightning enchantment.
    Undead are immune to stunning, though; I'm not sure what effect we'd see. (Although I wonder if a nightcrawler's "Owww!" can drown out a "great noise, like a clap of thunder".)
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-04-01 at 12:37 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Can we use the breath weapon to give V minimum ranks in concentration? Itd be 17+damage dealt.
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  20. - Top - End - #260
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Cone of cold at the nightcrawler’s CL 25 deals min 15 points of damage. 17+15=32, meaning 12+ (not accounting for any CON penalty or possibly feats)
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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    I assume that Minrah will have her deceased status revoked as soon as she next appears, even though it was made explicitly clear that she should reappear?
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Or click here.


    Undead are immune to stunning, though; I'm not sure what effect we'd see. (Although I wonder if a nightcrawler's "Owww!" can drown out a "great noise, like a clap of thunder".)
    A hammer of thunderbolts doesn't have a lightning enchantment nor a returning enchantment.

    Maybe it really is Mjolnir?

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Sm3gl View Post
    A hammer of thunderbolts doesn't have a lightning enchantment nor a returning enchantment.

    Maybe it really is Mjolnir?
    Not unless Thor himself is carrying around some random hammer.

    Also, the first line says "This +3 Large returning Warhammer..."
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  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    The Hammer of Thunderbolts probably is inspired by Mjolnir, just not the Mjolnir.

    Also two questions: I thought Returning weapons took a round to come back, so does that mean either the Giant handwaved that or this has an improved version of that ability?; and if this really is a Hammer of Thunderbolts, how the heck is Durkon using it in one hand?
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  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    As far as we can guess, the hammer is a Hammer of Thunderbolts (ctrl+f to find it).
    Isn't that Large? How is he wielding it one-handed?

    EDIT: Just saw the same question asked above me
    Last edited by Psyren; 2019-04-02 at 09:48 AM.

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  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    A medium character can wield a large weapon with a penalty to their attacks.
    But those penalties are more than made up for with the stacking strength bonuses from the gloves and belt of strength.
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-04-02 at 09:52 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    A medium character can wield a large weapon with a penalty to their attacks.
    But those penalties are more than made up for with the stacking strength bonuses from the gloves and belt of strength.
    The Belt and Gloves do not stack.
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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    The Belt and Gloves do not stack.
    They do when wielding the Hammer of Thunderbolts. It is one of its properties.

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  29. - Top - End - #269
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Honestly, how many times have we quoted the rules text for the Hammer of Thunderbolts by now? It's got to be over a dozen.

  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Honestly, how many times have we quoted the rules text for the Hammer of Thunderbolts by now? It's got to be over a dozen.
    23.
    Trust me, I didn't count.


    Anyone notice that if the Frost Giant ambush occurred after Durkon had been revived (choose whatever reason you want to explain how or why that would happen) that they would be a minor threat with a couple of buffs since Durkon could fling the hammer and OHKO each of them, if one at a time?
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-04-02 at 09:38 PM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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