GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group

[u-gotNOgame]

Great, Darth!
So, am I to understand that I can replace the old guide with this one now, or is there something left in the old one that should remain, that you still want to copy or any such thing?

Since the entire post is the guide and thers not much extraneous talking you might consider just linking to Darths post in the OP rather then quoting all of it. This would also be better if he needs to edit it then it would automaticly be updated and it would save you work aswell.

Im about halfway done with the builder section on my guide which means im about a third done w/ the entire guide before i would consider posting it and start the tweaking.

-UGNG

[Darth Mario]

Slaan's given me the thumbs up. If you want to do what UGNG suggested, feel free, it makes sense.

[AgentPaper]

Hmmm... well, the concept would be fairly intriguing and work quite well in WarCraft, that's true - only problem is, it probably wouldn't feel much like Erfworld unless someone happened to find or make a pack with excruciatingly cute models - I figure Transylvito troops could be done fairly easily with WC3 models, and I guess one could use the WC3-children-models for Marbits, but what then? Pandaren warriors or brewmasters for Jetstone Teddy-Heavies? Owl scouts for Orlies? Dragons for Dwagons? Somehow doesn't quite capture the Erfworld feeling. And I can't think of anything that even vaguely resembles gwiffons. Most definitely not gryphon riders.

Ah, that's the exact opposite of me. In order to upkeep a sensible sleep schedule, I pretty much should be sleeping when the sessions take place.

Okay, just waiting for Slaan's okay, then.

Actually, you really don't need the looks of erfworld to capture it's overall theme. Having the models surely helps, but isn't even the most important part. It has to have the style of humor and character to really feel like erf. Of course, even if it didn't seem like erf at all, the game concept is solid and using the erfworld names for things doesn't hurt. Just make sure you pick models on what would look best and not what looks the most like the art in the erf comics.

[Winterwind]

Since the entire post is the guide and thers not much extraneous talking you might consider just linking to Darths post in the OP rather then quoting all of it. This would also be better if he needs to edit it then it would automaticly be updated and it would save you work aswell.

Hmm, good point, that's a far better approach. I shall do as you say.

Slaan's given me the thumbs up. If you want to do what UGNG suggested, feel free, it makes sense.

Gotcha.

Actually, you really don't need the looks of erfworld to capture it's overall theme. Having the models surely helps, but isn't even the most important part. It has to have the style of humor and character to really feel like erf. Of course, even if it didn't seem like erf at all, the game concept is solid and using the erfworld names for things doesn't hurt. Just make sure you pick models on what would look best and not what looks the most like the art in the erf comics.

Considering how great and subtle Erfworld's humour is, that, too, would take a genius.

But you're right, it should work this way. Now, if only the day was about 10 hours longer...

[u-gotNOgame]

Hmm, good point, that's a far better approach. I shall do as you say.

Wait?? i was... usefull?? yes
*does a little dance*

Also i will probably be sending a pm so slaan soon... you know why

and my ID guide is done up to the titans, which i do not feel i am qualified to write at the moment so i will probably just post the builder section tommorow after i make it look all pretty (which might take some time considering its girth(5 pages (times new roman 12 pt font single spaced in Microsoft Word)!!)).

-UGNG

[Talkkno]

Does anyone know of where i can download a custom game filter?
I tried using this one but even though i extracted it in the right place, when i go to the custom game list and press scroll lock, it doesn't show up.
http://pyton0.googlepages.com/gamelist

[Winterwind]

Wait?? i was... usefull?? yes
*does a little dance*

Why, obviously, yes. Does that come as surprise?
Look, don't let what Tan says get to you - Tan tells everyone, myself included (at times, at least), that they suck irredeemably, if they do not play 100% perfectly, typically involving stuff which, in practice, is more often than not not actually practical.

Does anyone know of where i can download a custom game filter?
I tried using this one but even though i extracted it in the right place, when i go to the custom game list and press scroll lock, it doesn't show up.
http://pyton0.googlepages.com/gamelist

Sorry, no idea.

[u-gotNOgame]

Why, obviously, yes. Does that come as surprise?
Look, don't let what Tan says get to you - Tan tells everyone, myself included (at times, at least), that they suck irredeemably, if they do not play 100% perfectly, typically involving stuff which, in practice, is more often than not not actually practical.

Oh trush me i can deal with tan, as long as i know that there gonna be that way i can just brush it off, however slaan struck me as a more honorable and decent person hence my little rant. However that is in the past and i hope my PM will make ammends the best that can be done.

-UGNG

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Oh trush me i can deal with tan, as long as i know that there gonna be that way i can just brush it off, however slaan struck me as a more honorable and decent person

That's the problem, there aren't honorable and decent persons here. We are all rotten people waiting for the perfect opportunity to troll and flame someone unpunished. Except Winterwind, if he says something bad about you, yeah, you have gone way down the drain.

[Winterwind]

We are all rotten people waiting for the perfect opportunity to troll and flame someone unpunished.

Wow, trolling people by claiming you are trolling... that's trolling on such a high, abstract, paradoxical level, it actually deserves commendation.
I've seen through your act, Yak - beneath your tough guy shell, you are actually a very nice person!

Except Winterwind, if he says something bad about you, yeah, you have gone way down the drain.

Awww...

[u-gotNOgame]

Island Defense

Introduction

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This map is originally created by Yacapo & Dildamesh, however they are no longer activly editing the maps. They turned over those privileges and somewhere along the line (there were many "interim" editors) Pandamime and Darox took over the responsibility, after it became clear that they could not edit the map toghether. So... there are now 2 different versions of the map. Pandamime's version is currently 2.8.5i with his next scheduled release to be 3.0.0a. Darox's edit is 2.8.6. The differenece being that in Darox's version the satyr builder can occur more then once and there is a new race the Dranie which is commonly considered overpowered. Pandamime's version has 2 new builders slated for release, one at least will be coming in 3.0.0a

The gameplay remains unchanged however from version to version it consists of 2 opposing sides, the Titan and the builders. The titan tries to enslave the builders and make them his minions while the builders attempt to kill the titan and claim his wealth for themselves. This game essentially comes down to the fact that early game the Titan is to powerful to realistically over come and if he doesn't gain levels by late game even a mediocre base can take him down.

Builders

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When the game starts you are presented with 2 taverns in which to pick a race. The left tavern is filled with the "easier" races to play while the right is the "hard" races. Whether a race is hard or not to play often depends on the amount of gold it requires to play well. Lumber is acquired through having your builder or workers chop trees and return it to one of your shacks, there are however 2 races that gather lumber via the Night Elf method, which is to say it does not require a return and is magically added to your stockpile. Gold on the other hand must be stolen from the center of the map. The titan has constant vision of this area making it a constant danger to get gold.

Every race can be described by the resources it needs to base, and whether or not it can base. Almost every "hard" race requires gold to base adequately and has a means to quickly and effectively acquire lumber.

Easy Builders

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Murlock

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This is one of the most balanced races in the game, it has standard workers chop trees and return to base type resource gathering. This race does not require gold to base, however it does enhance the base if you can get it. Gold checkpoints to aim for are 45 for Merchant (required to build tier 4 towers) and 90 for merchant and advanced research center. This is really just a standard race; it has a unique endgame upgrade that enhances the damage of its tier four towers. Its towers also have the second best range in the game (1000) Its walls late game are above average due to another research available. This race has the use of the panic skill which allows you to out run titans even while under the influence of various slowing means. Also the teleport ability, widely considered one of the best since it basically takes you out of a bad situation and places you in a (hopefully) safe friendly base.

Gnoll

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This race is a powerhouse if used correctly, its towers come with slow poison to cripple the Titan if he comes knocking. His towers however come with a somewhat limited range making placement crucial. This race really shines with walls however, special upgrades allow for "cement" walls which will beat pretty much every other wall you compare them too boasting extra health and armor. Other than above average tower and great walls this race is standard, and requires large amounts of lumber to base against a high level titan. Gnoll does not require gold; however like Murlock it does enhance certain aspects of the base, like walls and access to tier four towers. The only escape method that this builder has it Teleport, which is really all it needs.

Troll

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Ah the glorious Troll; this is one of the only builders to have a legitimate chance of standing up to a level 14+ titan. Trolls have only average walls, but they make up for it with amazing towers. A normal tower costs one food, Trolls cost 4 because they are at least 4 times better then most other towers (most golders not withstanding). The hard part is that you will naturally have fewer towers since you have to keep a few workers and your towers cost more food. This means that you are limited in which bases you can choose. Some of his endgame upgrades include spikes, which damage the titan on melee attacks. This builder will stand up to high level titans even with out gold, however if he is able to get just 45 he can get his tier four towers and wreck havoc on all but the most experienced titans. His escape ability is Wind walk, which is usually considered a weak skill since the titan can easily see through it using various items I will discuss later

Radioactive

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This builder has some of the highest lumbering capabilities in the game. This combined with its flexibility makes this race fun to play, but hard to master. This builder does not have traditional workers, instead they work like Night Elves wisps, which is to say once you put them on a tree the do not have to return to a shelter to drop off their cargo, they also gather at higher rates then normal workers, starting at the standard 10 but it can get increased to 20 and high with upgrades. While, strictly speaking, this builder does not require gold to base it really shines when it does. Radioactive towers are all upgradeable to multiple types, like frost (for slow) rapid (for DPS) magic (for mana burn) and Overload (for buffing and high DPS). The only real downfall of this race is its lackluster walls which, even once upgraded, do not stand up to most other walls in the game. A fully upgraded "rainbow" radio base is truly a glory to behold. This builder has a constant immolation type effect that damages all nearby titans; he also has an 8 second invulnerability that is useful in a pinch.

Morphling

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Morph is one of the most versatile builders in the game. This unique builder has no less then 3 forms (early versions had a different form that was later replaced). This builder complete lack of escape abilities and complex forms make it not recommended for new players. Each form has its own pros and cons.
Builder form: this it the form you start in it gather lumber super fast and has a passive spell shield that will block one nuke from hitting you, this form also has full access to build anything. this includes mana wells (which each provide 50 food meaning you only need 3 to gain maximum food limit as opposed to 6 for most other builders) to gain population room and towers. Please not that these towers need to be garrisoned, much like normal orc burrows, in order to have any attack. Due to this fact morph harvesters only cost 3 food to the normal 6. However they suffer slower gather speeds to prevent them from gathering way to much lumber early game, also makes it very hard to detonate all of them in order to prevent feed. Once again strictly speaking morphs do not require gold to base however most bases will crumble if not supported either by a well upgraded warrior form or mega towers, both of which require gold. Morph walls are average at best and their towers are lackluster, however when supported with a warrior form morph their bases are fearsome.
Warrior Form: This is the form that most morphs stay in for most of the game, this form has fortified armor that can be upgraded multiple times as well as many passive and spell abilities to make the titans life hard. He starts with 400 health, a full 100 more then all other builders that have not upped their health or gotten lucky enough to random a health bonus. Draw backs of this form include a lesser gather rate on lumber and the fact that he has an extremely limited building list (read: shelters and walls).
Beast: this "endgame" form is basically his attack form. It comes with slowing attack a health attack and health buff but completely disables building and resource gathering. Most players completely ignore this form and stick with warrior to spend their gold. However it does have its uses.

Ogre

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Ok I'm not going to lie; I have played this builder exactly once... so ill come back to this section after I play it more.

Makura

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Ah the glorious crabs, these little buggers have effectively an enhanced population cap. Workers for this race cost only 5 food instead of the normal six, this might not seem like a lot but adds up to quite a few extra workers/towers. The builder also come with an aura that slows the move and attack speed of near by titans and minions. His walls are average and his towers are good considering the range of them. His towers have the highest in the game which highlights his higher pop cap since he has a greater tower able area. This builder also has access to teleport to get him out of really tight situations.

Hard Builders

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Goblin

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This is most likely the easiest of the hard builders. This race requires one gold for every tower he wants to construct, as most gold tower races do. He also has top 5 lumber gather rates and requires only 3 gathers to do this, which means after you quickly set up your lumber gatherers you can spend the rest of you time concentrating on acquiring gold. Other important things to note include his walls can be upgraded to have evasion and his hunter is flying and ranged making him perfect for harassing titans by shooting them while over trees or cliffs. He has the panic skill as well as a stun ward; this is used to save other builders almost as much as yourself. This ward can also be employed to give a Satyr a "poke" (discussed later). A third mirad use for this is to bomb it on a titan that is attacking your base when he is at low health preventing him from leaving your base area and potentially killing him.

Fairy Dragon

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This is one of the top 3 hardest races to base with; I say this because it requires not only a fair amount of gold, but also MASSIVE amounts of lumber. For many gold races this would not be an issue but fairy lacks a way to efficiently accrue a lot of lumber. However if you manage to acquire enough lumber to base, your towers are arguably the best in the game coming with high dps and mana burn that prevents a titan from wind walking or nuking you. This race also has a spell book jam packed with spells to both debuff the titan and buff your own towers. Given the time and the resources this builder is arguably the most dominant builder in the game. This builder starts with a short range blink to put space between himself and the titan as well as phase shift, which will save the fairy from a blow.

Nature

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This is the only race to have wisp gathering, if you follow. This builder is versatile because it has means of acquiring an army to hunt minions and supporting his own base. Also with 90 gold a nature can build a base of his own. Setting up you lumber can be a bit taxing but after you do you should be racking in the lumber so fast you should be worrying about gathering gold. This builder comes built-in with wind walk which allows him to escape whilst invisible, and panic which increases his move speed for a short time. These two can be combined to give a doubly increased move speed and invisibility.

Tauren

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This versatile builder, he has the ability to base (if he can spare a little gold and amass a ton of lumber), and the ability to potentially kill a high level titan (with a lot of gold and relatively small amounts of lumber). This builder comes with high natural armor meaning he can take a shot or two even before he researches his buffs. The main drawback of this builder is his inability to gather the large amount of lumber he needs for his upgrades. He has another special feature in the form of he gains experience for gathering gold. For every 100 gold he gathers he gains a level which increases his health armor, damage, and mana. This just makes him more of a threat to a titan that does not keep him in check.

Demonologist

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The ultimate in support builders this builder cannot base however he has the power to unleash a veritable army of summons upon the titan. This builder has a good lumber rate that requires only 3 gathers and can be built fast and get to golding. This builder has summon type building so he can get 2-3 buildings going at once, he also has walls that are stronger then all tier 1 walls, but weaker then most t2 walls. This builder is a threat to end game titans when he has gold, he is also deadly to low level early game minions with only a little bit of gold due to the high dps of his summons. His escape skill is Nether warp this teleports him to a random location around the map (including right onto the gold mound) it however does have a casting delay which leave you open while waiting to be saved.

Ice Magnataur

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This race has no towers. Let me say that again, this race has NO tower. So if you want the endgame satisfaction of killing the titan and bailing out all your ailing allies this race is not for you. Ice mag has a lumber gather rate in the top 5, in the game, and probably the safest in terms of keeping the lumber coming. The builder comes equipped with a spell book that holds everything the Mag will need to effectively support other basers, though he needs gold to have access to these spells. This race is at home when it is walling another person’s base or hunting Titanous Minions. He has a summon and powerful weapon ups that make him viable to support other people through the game. His early way outs include wind walk, and his naturally high health and armor that can be upgraded.

Satyr Shadowdancer

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This race comes with built in permanent invisibility, the cost? 150 health, so little in fact, that one hit plus a nuke will have you trading in your satyr threads for titan-ware. This build comes with a full upgrade array that range from health increase (very important), damage upgrades, critical strike, damage reduction strike, faster cloaking, and a permanent army. With enough gold this builder can go toe to toe with titans. The kicker here is however that every time a satyr hits a titan he gets 4 gold and 200 lumber making a habit of poking the main titan will however quickly get you labeled as "crazy" and as a "noob" and probably dead.

Titans

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The titan is the enemy of the builders he must simultaneously look for feed and keep the pesky builders from acquiring so much gold he has no shot at killing them. Balancing feeding and camping is tricky. The titans are divided once again into easy and hard sections; these are judged on their abilities. All titans have some form of wind walk/invisibility, a nuke spell, a healing spell, some sort of spell and an "ultimate" spell that greatly increases one aspect of their attack. The builders they kill become minions or "minis" and can have control given and taken away from the builder who originally controlled it (this is mainly to prevent the sour grape effect, which can lead to a 45 gold bonus to one builder). If you manage to kill all the builders you have won.

<Titan List to come>

Todo:

• Faq
• General Strategy
• Titan list (easy and hard)

Comments and questions now accepted

-UGNG

[Winterwind]

Well, being a total noob at this map and having played it only two times so far, I can't really comment much on this guide, but it's looking fine to me so far.
Though the most interesting part, for me anyway, is going to be the 'How To Play' part.

Linked to the guide in the "main" post.

[u-gotNOgame]

Though the most interesting part, for me anyway, is going to be the 'How To Play' part.

Linked to the guide in the "main" post.

Thanks, i've started writing that from the view point of the builders, which is my forte if you will. I have never activily seeked out playing titan and rarely do now-a-days since it just isn't fun for me... but i think im going to have to start if i want to make this guide good. Hm, looking at it now i should probably change a few things and clarify that there are 2 completely independent versions of the map...

-UGNG

[Bergett]

Island defense is like the only TD I'm not good at

[Winterwind]

That might have to do with it not actually being a TD at all, it's, rather, a tag map.

There is a map called Island TD, but that's something completely different (the trick to the latter is, aside of building a good maze, that everything sells for 100% of its price, and therefore you are meant to sell a decent amount of anti-ground towers and replace them with anti-air when an air level comes, and swap all of them back after the level).

[Bergett]

that's why I failed horribly when I played it the one time I did

[u-gotNOgame]

that's why I failed horribly when I played it the one time I did

Yes i have never quite got the hang of it either, while people like WW and Bane like to throw down on races that are described as "Impossible". However i think that given enough time i might come around.

-UGNG

[Bergett]

ehh same for me.

[Nohwl]

i havent played most of the tower defense maps. i should really try some.

[Bergett]

Oh crap....
I was just in a game with the Parasite 2 creator o_O

[Darth Mario]

Oh crap....
I was just in a game with the Parasite 2 creator o_O

Yeah, I've played a couple games with DarkShoGun a while back, when he was doing alpha testing for Parasite: Earth Bound (what was going to be the third map in the series, but eventually got cancelled). I want to find out what happened to the Parasite forums; they got taken down maybe a month ago with no explanation. Especially distressing because Parasite 2 Final was supposed to be about to come out any week.

[Bergett]

that's pretty awesome

[Battleship789]

Yes i have never quite got the hang of it either, while people like WW and Bane like to throw down on races that are described as "Impossible". However i think that given enough time i might come around.

-UGNG

I always thought that the "Impossible" races were easier to use than the "easy" races on Islands TD.


Nice guide for ID, though it is more of a basic overview of the races rather than an actual guide (basic strengths/weaknesses, as opposed to strategys and builds).

Add links to one website (Pandamine) and the another website (Darox). Each one is supported by various people, some support both.

[Pande]

I always thought that the "Impossible" races were easier to use than the "easy" races on Islands TD.

yea i kind of did too, i guess it depends on your own tactics when u play the game .. what im trying to say is that in Islande Defece i always preffer those builders who can escape easily (not invisibility, i hate invi) rather than bunker up in a corner or something..

i meant, sooner or later your friends will fall in the hands of the Titan and convert as minions, so they know were u are and go all together to chase u..

sooner or later everyone falls... so with a more versatyle builder (or runner in this case) the gold harverting is always easyer..



thats what i think..





pd: is it okay if i create a thread with multiple links (like, many of them) with the "MUST PLAY" warcraft maps?

[Winterwind]

I always thought that the "Impossible" races were easier to use than the "easy" races on Islands TD.

Well... the supposedly easiest race is decidedly more difficult than many of the others, as the size of its buildings makes mazing that much more difficult.
Also, the Spirits are declared as most difficult more because of their untypical way of building, but are not that difficult once one gets the hang of them (their towers are still fairly pathetic though).
Otherwise, the difficulty ratings are more or less accurate, as with increasing difficulty rating the race's towers get weaker and they start to lose special abilities and the option to upgrade towers.

Nice guide for ID, though it is more of a basic overview of the races rather than an actual guide (basic strengths/weaknesses, as opposed to strategys and builds).

I'm pretty sure UGNG intends to add all of that yet.


Sooo... Bergett and Battleship789, do you two want to join us and our weekly GitP WarCraft sessions?

EDIT:

yea i kind of did too, i guess it depends on your own tactics when u play the game .. what im trying to say is that in Islande Defece i always preffer those builders who can escape easily (not invisibility, i hate invi) rather than bunker up in a corner or something..

Again, he's speaking about Island Tower Defense, you about Island Defense. Two completely different maps.

pd: is it okay if i create a thread with multiple links (like, many of them) with the "MUST PLAY" warcraft maps?

Umm... why not just post them here? Most WarCraft players of these forums are all gathered here anyway.

And the question whether you want to join us applies to you, too, of course.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

pd: is it okay if i create a thread with multiple links (like, many of them) with the "MUST PLAY" warcraft maps?

I'd say it's better if you make a post here, which would surely be added to the first post and easier to see for the people that play regularly in the group.

Btw, nice country

[u-gotNOgame]

yea i kind of did too, i guess it depends on your own tactics when u play the game .. what im trying to say is that in Islande Defece i always preffer those builders who can escape easily (not invisibility, i hate invi) rather than bunker up in a corner or something..

i meant, sooner or later your friends will fall in the hands of the Titan and convert as minions, so they know were u are and go all together to chase u..

sooner or later everyone falls... so with a more versatyle builder (or runner in this case) the gold harverting is always easyer..

Well Gold harvesting is not a nessacity and by your definition of "verisitile builder" your builder will probably never "need" gold to base. Also if the titan has alot of minions and your a "easy baser" then you should not be attempting to get any more gold. You should be hulled up inside walls with a good amount of towers. also most titans punish every minion then get and dont micro them at all, this means you will probably have only one guys chasing... much easier to escape from.

-UGNG

[Winterwind]

So, reminder: Tomorrow is our next custom map session. I hope to see you all there.

Hmmm... I have the distinct feeling there was something else I wanted to say... eh, can't have been that important, if I forgot.

[Pande]

EDIT:
Again, he's speaking about Island Tower Defense, you about Island Defense. Two completely different maps.

Ups, my bad... sry... i do not know that map, but its TD so i already luv it (L)

[Winterwind]

Reminder: Tomorrow is our next melee session. I hope to kill maim see you all.