GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group

[Leper_Kahn]

We're still online and desperate for people. *wave*

[Winterwind]

Here's the weekly reminder - tomorrow is our next session again (and, finally, after a long abstinence, I am able to participate, too! ).

Hope to see ya all!

[Leper_Kahn]

Hey everyone,
I'm gonna get on now. I won't hang around in the channel though so please just whisper me @
LeperKahn@Azeroth

[Silfir]

Hey - Can I play too? And did I get this right - 4 PM (GMT-5) is 10 PM (GMT+1)?

I think I could get my friend to play too; we play Warcraft III against each other regularly. He doesn't know Order of the Stick, though. (Come to think of it, I just might remedy this today...)

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I guess we're going to play TFT?

Nevermind, I have rediscovered my eyesight :)

[Winterwind]

Hey - Can I play too?

Sure, this is for everybody.

And did I get this right - 4 PM (GMT-5) is 10 PM (GMT+1)?

That's right (strange, I thought I had put a list with what this time corresponds to in the various time zones into the first post, but apparently not. Mistake corrected now).
Ooooh, Esslingen. Endlich mal ein weiterer Baden-Württemberger hier.

I think I could get my friend to play too;

The more the merrier.

we play Warcraft III against each other regularly.

So far, the group has been focussing rather on custom games, but I wouldn't mind playing a few regular games as well, too.

He doesn't know Order of the Stick, though. (Come to think of it, I just might remedy this today...)

Good idea.

Nevermind, I have rediscovered my eyesight :)

[Silfir]

Also, just for the record, I managed to get the Silfir username on Azeroth.

[Blood]

Look like I won't be able to make today's meet, again, this time thanks to an impromptu family visit... I'll be leaving in a few hours and I won't be back until late afternoon on Sunday.

[Winterwind]

Also, just for the record, I managed to get the Silfir username on Azeroth.

Alright, got it. List entry completed.

Look like I won't be able to make today's meet, again, this time thanks to an impromptu family visit... I'll be leaving in a few hours and I won't be back until late afternoon on Sunday.

Too bad, Moozy.
Well, have fun with family!

[Silfir]

I think I reconfigured my firewall right to allow me to host games now... Is anyone up for a quick game to test it?

[Leper_Kahn]

Anyone want to play anything now? I'll be online in the channel: gitp
(Note: We might be playing starcraft or D2...)

[DarkLightDragon]

That was a crazy mini-session! My sheep spontaneously combusting in werewolf, orcs and tauren running all over the place in spellcraft, pyrotechnics everywhere... great fun!

[The Orange Zergling]

So, after the great testing round last week, I now have a massive changelog for ICD (my map).

Spoiler

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In short, items are far more powerful (not to mention somewhat cheaper) tomes are now twice as expensive (but their maximum stock is now 15, not 5), and it takes twice as much Agility to get an Armor point. Also, the Mage now has an AoE that doesn't need precise timing in the damage trigger, and is slightly utilitarian too. (Essentially, Frost Nova) The Stalker's Critical Strike and Evasion abilities have been nerfed, but combined into one spell to make room for a very mana-expensive but damaging spell. Hard mode is now actually, y'know, hard, and demons get better Mana/HP regen with their annual upgrade in addition to HP/damage. The Boss is now melee, faster, and has twice as many hit points. He also hits harder and more quickly. The Cathedral regenerates mana as well as HP. Conscripts are ever so slightly better, and can be refunded.

I also have plans to make a few item recipes, possibly at the Citadel or at a "Wandering Merchant" at the top left/right.

*phew*

[Winterwind]

I see we will have lots of fun on Friday.

[Winterwind]

So, reminder, tomorrow is our next session again.

While I am eager to see the improvements Baneling made on his map, I am not quite sure whether I will make it tomorrow; probably I will though.

[The Orange Zergling]

I'd wait a bit before calling them "improvements", Winterwind.

Also, there's a newish map at one point I'd like us to play, it's called Crabs Take Over The Island, the full description is there, but in short, it's a big FFA of mechanical crabs that fight eachother. Once one dies, it's killer rebuilds it in it's own image, but with possible defects. It's a bit like Darwins Island, but infinitely better. It also has an AI (that actually uses it's abilities!). It's not made by me, but I played it with 11 comps and thought it was awesome.

You can also mingle with sheep.

[Winterwind]

I'd wait a bit before calling them "improvements", Winterwind.

I have full confidence in you.

(also, if we should not like them, well... I hear Zergling meat is delicious when roasted in orange juice. )

Also, there's a newish map at one point I'd like us to play, it's called Crabs Take Over The Island, the full description is there, but in short, it's a big FFA of mechanical crabs that fight eachother. Once one dies, it's killer rebuilds it in it's own image, but with possible defects. It's a bit like Darwins Island, but infinitely better. It also has an AI (that actually uses it's abilities!). It's not made by me, but I played it with 11 comps and thought it was awesome.

Sounds neat! *downloads*

You can also mingle with sheep.

And that is, as we know after all, a sure way to awesomeness.

[Crispy Dave]

I may be able to pop on for about an hour or so be again dnd olways goes beforhand

[The Orange Zergling]

Okay, additional changes made since the last posting:

Spoiler

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Druid's Nature's Gift spell has been replaced with Nature's Ally (summons 1 Forest Spirit, plus an additional one for every 30 points of Intelligence), all healing spells have been substantially buffed, Necromancer's Restless Souls spell summons an additional, stronger Ghost every 25 points of Intelligence, the Shaman's Healing Ritual has been replaced with Vampiric Ritual (Drain Life that deals additional damage the higher your Intelligence is), the summoned Aether Spirit gets stronger every 5 points of Intelligence the Shaman has (but it has a cap), the Cleric's Shower of Light has been replaced with Holy Nova (essentially a healing War Stomp), the Guardian has two new spells to replace Arcanisteel Armor and Unrelenting Aura (while these make it harder for him to tank, they allow him to deal more damage and one of them could be an escape spell if timed right).

When 6 or more people are playing, the number of demons spawned is near doubled. The bridge in the center has been removed and replaced with a land-bridge, which is almost twice as wide. Warp Crystals have been slightly buffed. Structures are now also upgraded in Hard-Mode. Crusade now deals damage that scales with the Inquisitor's Strength, effectively eliminating the point in the game when 20 DPS doesn't matter.

Kinda nervous, not sure if these changes will benefit or harm the game... it's kinda too late to go back to normal, unless I go back to v0.05/v0.04 or something...

[Winterwind]

If you want to give 'em a try, I'm online already.

[Crispy Dave]

sorry about me crashing my comp now refuses to play warcraft online or use firefox but will run internet exsplorer so I dont know whats going on

[Winterwind]

Ah, we were wondering why you did not log back on yesterday.

...Wow. That's one weird problem...
Sorry, but I have no idea what might have caused that or how you could amend it.

[The Orange Zergling]

My comparatively short changelog for v.07:

Spoiler

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The cooldown of Rapid Shot has been reduced to 20 seconds, and the duration increased to 15 seconds. A notation has been added to it's tooltip regarding Autocast. Serrated Arrow deals twice the total damage it did before.

Potions of Health, Potions of Magic, Tomes, and 550+ gold items have been added to the Citadel. Tomes at the Citadel have a stock of 30, and the default icon.

Demons have a 50% chance to pick the right or left when entering the Citadel, but they still seem to favor the right.

Also, I'm getting ready to unveil this map to the general public via Hiveworkshop. Can I run the post by someone via PM (because it's a bit long) to see if it's okay?

[Winterwind]

My comparatively short changelog for v.07:

Spoiler

Show

The cooldown of Rapid Shot has been reduced to 20 seconds, and the duration increased to 15 seconds. A notation has been added to it's tooltip regarding Autocast. Serrated Arrow deals twice the total damage it did before.

Potions of Health, Potions of Magic, Tomes, and 550+ gold items have been added to the Citadel. Tomes at the Citadel have a stock of 30, and the default icon.

Demons have a 50% chance to pick the right or left when entering the Citadel, but they still seem to favor the right.

No balance changes to prevent a larger number of players from getting torn apart, as it happened to us?

Also, I'm getting ready to unveil this map to the general public via Hiveworkshop. Can I run the post by someone via PM (because it's a bit long) to see if it's okay?

Um? Pardon? Whether you can do what?

[The Orange Zergling]

No balance changes to prevent a larger number of players from getting torn apart, as it happened to us?

Well, those were the only suggestions I got... Buff Marksman abilities, add tomes/potions to the Citadel. But I'm open to more ideas... like giving all of the buildings varying amounts of regeneration.

Um? Pardon? Whether you can do what?

Nevermind, sorry.

[Winterwind]

Well, those were the only suggestions I got... Buff Marksman abilities, add tomes/potions to the Citadel. But I'm open to more ideas... like giving all of the buildings varying amounts of regeneration.

What I meant was, when we played last time, we got horribly slaughtered. The fact that the Citadel holds stuff now as well will not change anything about us being repelled back to the shops right at the start. Could it be that the scaling of the monsters to a higher player number is a tad too harsh and the monsters got too powerful with this many players in?

[The Orange Zergling]

Hmmm... Maybe I should change it so that it just has the default spawn, but the upgrades are more rapid/better?

Or: Increase spawns slightly with 4+ players, and increase more dramatically with 8?

EDIT: The latter has been implemented. With four players it spawns an additional Damned Spirit, Hellhound, and Corrupted Forest Spirit. With eight players it spawns... what you've seen.

(Re-submitted because the forum decided to not acknowledge a post was made after Winterwind's)

[Winterwind]

While it remains to be seen how well balanced that is, it sounds like another step towards the golden spot.

You could consider adjusting the power of the enemies precisely to the number of players - not just implementing adjustments at 4 and 8 players, but for all other numbers inbetween as well (I think an easy way to do this would be to create an aura, which affects the enemy units and boosts them in power - and to have the level of said aura depend on the number of players, just as an idea).

Balancing is the most difficult part anyway; I suspect it will take quite a lot of playtesting until it is done. Good thing your map, and hence said playtesting, is fun.

[Crispy Dave]

Ah, we were wondering why you did not log back on yesterday.

...Wow. That's one weird problem...
Sorry, but I have no idea what might have caused that or how you could amend it.

ok I got both of them to work by re-installing them

but o the pain of using internet exsplorer as a web browser o the pain

[The Orange Zergling]

While it remains to be seen how well balanced that is, it sounds like another step towards the golden spot.

You could consider adjusting the power of the enemies precisely to the number of players - not just implementing adjustments at 4 and 8 players, but for all other numbers inbetween as well (I think an easy way to do this would be to create an aura, which affects the enemy units and boosts them in power - and to have the level of said aura depend on the number of players, just as an idea).

I just tried this, and I couldn't find a good aura to base it on. Command Aura would do for the damage, but no Aura increases Hit Points. And, basing the number of enemies spawned on the amount of players wouldn't be much different than it is now... unless you want 8 Hellhounds, 8 Lesser Damned Spirits, 4 Damned Spirits, 2 Aether Golems and 3 Corrupted Murlocs coming down at you with 8 people.
What I'm trying now is to slightly buff the 4-player-spawn and when 8 people are playing it uses the 4-player spawn and automatically turns on Hard Mode.

Balancing is the most difficult part anyway

You have no idea.

I suspect it will take quite a lot of playtesting until it is done. Good thing your map, and hence said playtesting, is fun.

[Winterwind]

ok I got both of them to work by re-installing them

but o the pain of using internet exsplorer as a web browser o the pain

Ow. Hurts.

I just tried this, and I couldn't find a good aura to base it on. Command Aura would do for the damage, but no Aura increases Hit Points.

Devotion Aura sort of increases Hit Points - there is little difference between having more Hit Points and taking less damage, the effect is pretty much the same - the unit lasts longer. The only difference would be where armour does not protect, i.e. against spells - perhaps you can tack on reduction of spell damage somehow? Is it possible to make a trigger like "If unit is under effect of Devotion Aura Level X, grant the unit spell damage reduction of level Y"? Or maybe you decide that, if it's only spells which ignore this "virtual" Hit Point increase, that's okay...

EDIT: Or you make all your enemies hero-type units and give them a Strength boost at their creation depending on player numbers. If you make them Strength-heroes this would even boost their damage, too.

You should consider whether, whatever mechanic for balancing for player numbers you use, it should not automatically scale down again when a player leaves, to accommodate disconnects, leavers and alike.

And, basing the number of enemies spawned on the amount of players wouldn't be much different than it is now... unless you want 8 Hellhounds, 8 Lesser Damned Spirits, 4 Damned Spirits, 2 Aether Golems and 3 Corrupted Murlocs coming down at you with 8 people.
What I'm trying now is to slightly buff the 4-player-spawn and when 8 people are playing it uses the 4-player spawn and automatically turns on Hard Mode.

I haven't counted the enemies that spawned when we played - I was much too busy trying to slaughter the hell out of them - so I don't really know what these numbers you state would mean in-game (though 25 enemies sounds like a lot). And what changes in Hard Mode?