Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Jovocian Bomb

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lyinginbedmon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Darlington, Co. Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Jovocian Bomb

    Jovocs are a race of Tanar'ri from the Monster Manual II, and with a bit of finangling, you can create a source of infinite damage with them, easily shared by simple proximity, all thanks to their Retributive Aura.

    Ingredients needed:
    • Regeneration (spell, PHB)
    • Mind-Switch (power, XPH)
    • Metamorphic Transfer (feat, XPH)
    • Frenzied Berzerker (PrC, CW)
    • Astral Seed (power, XPH)
    • Gate (spell, PHB)


    Race: Human
    Build: Barbarian 1/Psion (Shaper) 15/Frenzied Berzerker 4
    Feats: Destructive Rage, (Intimidating Rage), (Acquire Psi-Crystal), Power Attack, Cleave, (Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Beast)), Extra Rage, (Expanded Knowledge [Metamorphosis]), Shape Soulmeld (Girillon's Arms), Metamorphic Transfer, (Expanded Knowledge [Mind-Switch]), Expanded Knowledge [Compression].

    The Trick:
    1. Both Psions manifest astral seed (10 minutes casting, no XP cost)
    2. NPC casting of gate x2: summon 2 Jovocs for 17 rounds each.
    3. The two Psions place their storage crystals near the Jovocs and then kill themselves
    4. The two Psions (now inside the storage crystals) manifest touchsight (so they can see the jovocs) and then manifest mind-switch on them. The NPC caster commands the Jovocs to be willing, or the two Psions could just brute force the Jovocs. Their saves aren't very high. The NPC should forbid the Jovocs from attacking anything.
    5. The Psions (now inside Jovoc bodies) use metamorphic transfer to grant themselves the retributive aura. They turn around and smash their storage crystals.
    6. The two Psions lose a level by killing their former bodies (the storage crystal) but regain this lost level through an NPC casting of psychic chirurgery.


    Commentary: The build above would make rather poor psi-gishes, but at least they can manifest claws of the beast and rend with the claws (girallon's arm soulmeld bound to arm chakra, which was opened via open chakra). Other than that, these two are pretty much one-trick ponies.

    SOMEONE SET US UP THE BOMB:
    1. Use a dorje of greater metamorphosis to morph into a solar (Shapers have UPD as a class skill). Share this power with their psi-crystals.
    2. Dismiss the power, but keep the power active on the psi-crystals.
    3. Using a dorje of fusion, the Psions fuse with their respective psi-crystals.
    4. Compression is used to reduce the size of the now metamorphed psi-crystals down to small size. This is legal because both are now of the outsider type and of small or smaller size.
    5. Begin Frenzying
    6. Approach eachother and stab the other Psion.
    7. BOOM!

    After much issue, changes were made to this design that allows it to function in Non-Psionics as well:
    1. Find 2 characters with Improved Assume Supernatural Ability
    2. Shapechange them into Jovocs, then polymorph them into Trolls, using IASA to acquire the Troll's regeneration and the Jovoc's retributive aura.
    3. Deal damage to them. Once you've dealt all the damage you need, cast regenerate or a similar spell to remove all the nonlethal damage.

    What happens is that since the characters have Regeneration the damage they take from the field is converted to nonlethal damage, an infinite amount to be precise. Regenerate removes all of the damage. Naturally, you'll want to wait for the transformations to wear off first

    Last edited by Lyinginbedmon; 2007-09-26 at 09:27 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Mewtarthio's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    But if you take an infinite amount of nonlethal damage, won't you be unconscious forever? And don't you need true mind switch (a ninth-level telepath-exclusive power) to permanently take a new body?
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.
    Currently doing a blind LP of Higurashi

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtarthio View Post
    But if you take an infinite amount of nonlethal damage, won't you be unconscious forever?
    No. You just stick your head in a bucket of water.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Mewtarthio's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    No. You just stick your head in a bucket of water.
    But the "bucket of water" trick just sets your HP to -1. Last I checked, the drowning rules don't involve nonlethal damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.
    Currently doing a blind LP of Higurashi

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lyinginbedmon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Darlington, Co. Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtarthio View Post
    But the "bucket of water" trick just sets your HP to -1. Last I checked, the drowning rules don't involve nonlethal damage.
    Regenerate does the trick, provided it's not done by you personally.

    Take a look at the very last line of Astral Seed
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD - Astral Seed
    Conceivably, you could manifest mind switch to utilize a temporary body, but only an evil creature would smash his own temporarily empty storage crystal to permanently usurp a subjectís organic body (unless the subject is itself irredeemably evil).
    We get essentially the same effect as True Mind Switch, but we lose a level and need longer to do it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OzymandiasVolt's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Yes.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Wasn't this already on the WotC boards? Like, a long long LONG time ago? Or was that a different Jovoc bomb?
    Last edited by OzymandiasVolt; 2007-09-26 at 11:53 AM.
    "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard, task mage

    STFUitP

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by OzymandiasVolt View Post
    Wasn't this already on the WotC boards? Like, a long long LONG time ago? Or was that a different Jovoc bomb?
    Tleilaxu Ghola's Psion Sandwich, I believe. I can't find the link, however.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lyinginbedmon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Darlington, Co. Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Ghola's sandwich came after the Jovocian Bomb, though he did help out with the Psionic variant

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Westland, Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    There are issues with this.

    Step 4.

    Why cast touchsight? Psicrystals can see. Construct Trait. SIghtless

    Step 5.

    Metamorphic Transfer soes not help you out. You did not change your shape you inhabited another creatures body.

    Per the SRD: Each time you change your form, such as through the metamorphosis power, you gain one of the new form's supernatural abilities, if it has any.

    You did not change your own form.

    Also as soon as you destroy the crystal and kill the Jovan, you die as well.

    Bomb Step 1:

    You can't take the form of a Solar, they are an Outsider. also Solar's have 22 HD. you would have to be 21st level.

    Also if you could somehow become a Solar, you would have a hard time damaging the other solar since you can't bypass the evil part of the DR.
    Last edited by Techonce; 2007-09-27 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Bad typing
    All hail the Dark One!

    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lyinginbedmon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Darlington, Co. Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Techonce View Post
    Step 4.

    Why cast touchsight? Psicrystals can see. Sighted
    Granted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Techonce View Post
    Step 5.

    Metamorphic Transfer soes not help you out. You did not change your shape you inhabited another creatures body.

    Per the SRD: Each time you change your form, such as through the metamorphosis power, you gain one of the new form's supernatural abilities, if it has any.

    You did not change your own form.
    Technically speaking, by changing from being a human to being a Jovoc, we did change our form. However, I can see how that would be seen as flawed. If you can find a way to acquire the ability otherwise, please state it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Techonce View Post
    Also as soon as you destroy the crystal and kill the Jovan, you die as well.
    That would be true if it were just Mind Switch. We're using Astral Seed as well, which states right in the description that it doesn't kill both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Techonce View Post
    Bomb Step 1:

    You can't take the form of a Solar, they are an Outsider. also Solar's have 22 HD. you would have to be 21st level.

    Also if you could somehow become a Solar, you would have a hard time damaging the other solar since you can't bypass the evil part of the DR.
    They don't manifest the power personally, you use a Dorje. A Dorje can have a higher ML than is needed to manifest the power. Also, Greater Metamorphosis does allow Outsiders.

    They could indeed deal damage to eachother, because their slam deals 2d8+13 damage.
    Last edited by Lyinginbedmon; 2007-09-27 at 11:15 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Westland, Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    I guess we both read the Metamorphic Transfer a bit different.

    The description "You can gain a supernatural ability of a metamorphed form" leads me towards you changing shape not changing minds. You didn't paint your house, you moved to a new one. It could go either way, depending on the DM.

    I swear there is a prestige class or feat that lets you steal supernatural abilities from others. I can't find it though...

    Reading Mind switch it states that you die after the power runs out if the other body is killed. However with the long duration of Mind switch, that's far enough in the future it's not a worry.

    Greater Metamorphesis... I read it wrong. My bad. Of course if you want the regen, but not the issues of being a solar, then a troll would work.

    How exactly does the retributive aura work? I don't have MM2.

    While the above is not practical, it does make you think and look at things that you might not otherwise. Kind of like quantum mechanics... but more interesting!
    All hail the Dark One!

    "Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I'm a level 8 Idiot.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lyinginbedmon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Darlington, Co. Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    You may be thinking of either Master Transmogrifist or the Assume Supernatural Ability feat, but the first only goes with extraordinary and the latter has the same issues as Metamorphic Transfer.

    As I said, Astral Seed gives a unique exception to the rule on Mind Switch.

    The Retributive Aura affects a 30 ft. radius. When the Jovoc is damaged, it releases the same quantity of damage into everyone in that 30 ft. radius, with a Fort 15 saving throw for half. It only works on non-Tanar'ri, which is where most of the effort comes in. Whilst the saving throw is pretty mediocre, consider an infinite number of them in a given round, virtually anything will die (And everything did when it was originally conceived, a few years back).
    Last edited by Lyinginbedmon; 2007-09-27 at 12:19 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Mewtarthio's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyinginbedmon View Post
    As I said, Astral Seed gives a unique exception to the rule on Mind Switch.
    It never states that it undoes the normal effect of mind switch; it's just written as though that were the case. If you ask me, it looks like a case of bad editing, as though the text of mind switch got changed later and astral seed never updated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.
    Currently doing a blind LP of Higurashi

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lyinginbedmon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Darlington, Co. Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Jovocian Bomb

    Alright, so assume that they took Expanded Knowledge (true mind switch) instead of Expanded Knowledge (mind switch)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •