Results 271 to 300 of 1457
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2019-03-21, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Singapore
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Hmm. All right, what if Miko attacks Shojo, failing to kill him (because he's actually an epic-level Aristocrat), and he responds by standing up, drawing his ridiculous epic weapon that he usually keeps concealed, and killing her out of hand, rather than doing it unprovoked.
What happens then?
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2019-03-21, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-03-21, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
I guess it's no more puzzling than Miko being second-in-command of the Guard more generally, but she kind of ought to be discreet about this sort of thing.
Maybe, but in itself that sounds like the kind of information an enterprising villain with plans on world domination could probably take advantage of. I mean, maybe, by the barest possible technicality she would be allowed to disclose that type of information, but that seems like bending over backwards in favour of her prisoners.
...No, I think myself and Aquillion have gone over a few cases where Shojo committed legit crimes. (I mean, there wouldn't be much point to just ejecting Shojo from the Guard- he'd still be Lord of a city with no separation of government powers and can basically tell the paladins to do what he wants.)
And he'd have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids!Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2019-03-21, 06:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2019-03-21, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
*shrugs*
They get Sapphire Guard discount coupons. That they're not very discreet is part of the joke.ungelic is us
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2019-03-21, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-03-21, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-03-21, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
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2019-03-21, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
And I disagree that you have gone over anything of the sort. The closest is Belkar, but we see Hinjo doing the same thing later, so its clearly within his authority even if the paladins would severely disapprove of his doing so. Hinjo overheard one conversation where Shojo admitted to lying to the paladins. While that is a breach of their trust, it isn't a crime unless Azure City is significantly more authoritarian than we have been shown.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-03-21, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
We have a hint that "releasing criminals from jail but with Mark of Justice on them" has been going on for a while - it isn't just Belkar:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.htmlMarut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2019-03-21, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
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2019-03-21, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2019-03-21, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Singapore
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2019-03-21, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Yeah, but this is still a scenario where she's ranting about how Shojo (and Roy) are totally in cahoots with Xykon and the courts are all unfixably corrupt, the reasonableness of which depends strictly on the information available to her, and that doesn't change under your hypothetical. The entire content of her speech builds toward an elaborate justification for impromptu execution- if she suddenly reverses course and decides to... not do that, you'd kind of have to ask why. The premise is doubtful, but if you allow it, her original conclusion was logical.
In any case, Miko does a number of much more conspicuously reasonable things during her early appearances. I mean, I'll grant that Roy was apparently not paying much attention, but it is there.Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2019-03-21 at 01:09 PM.
Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2019-03-23, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
There are two possibilities.
1. Miko, a paladin whose most subtle plan involved challenging an entire ogre tribe to combat at the same time, has some sort of devious plot to backstab Shojo and the Order at a more convenient time.
2. Miko is having second thoughts.
Both of these seem out-of-character, but I don't see why Roy would assume the first one was true...let alone why he would be A-OK with Shojo assuming so and going all Miko on Miko.
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2019-03-23, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Oh, I'm fairly confident Roy would get involved in some form or fashion, if only by screeching incredulously about his employer's behaviour before this hypothetical level-30 alt-Shojo with a +5 keen dire vorpal anarchic humanbane katana proceeded to also ginsu him. I'm just pointing out that this is (A) not obviously more 'reasonable' behaviour on Miko's part than before, and (B) certainly not the most reasonable thing she's done.
Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2019-03-23, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Would such a Shojo be able to kill Xykon? And would the death of the only SG paladin in the room trigger the Ghost Martyrs?
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
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2019-03-23, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Singapore
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Hinjo is there, too.
I don't think a level 30 Aristocrat would be enough to kill Xykon, especially since many of the enchantments on his sword (Anarchic, Humanbane) would be useless against a CE lich. He has really good attacks from his high BAB and a few epic feats, but otherwise he can be dealt with by a spell. Soon was able to beat Xykon, yeah, but he was epic-level in a player class intended specifically to fight evil, and he had a beneficial template that made a lot of Xykon's spells less useful on him.
I think the Ghost Martyrs only appear when the gate itself is threatened. As long as he doesn't do that he can get away with whatever he wants.
However, keep in mind that Xykon only learned where the Gate was after this scene. If things go differently, he may not learn that, which means the entire battle will go differently.Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-03-23 at 07:10 PM.
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2019-03-23, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
I'm pretty sure human liches retain the (human) subtype, so it wouldn't be completely worthless. Xykon's DR requires magical bludgeoning weapons to overcome, so Nega-Shojo would still need to get through that. (Unless he smacked Xykon with the flat of his blade, but then he couldn't vorpal him.)
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2019-03-23, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
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2019-03-23, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Don’t forget the rest of the ghost-martyrs had levels in a class intended to fight evil and had that same template, and they STILL had to all team up on him. Xykon was probably lucky he had Symbol of Insanity and used it at the right time, otherwise he’d probably have lost the fight. Miko wouldn’t have destroyed the gate, because of the paladins and ghosts getting enough time to smite Xykon to death before Miko showed up and generally ruined things so badly that Soon showed up just to point out her failure.
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2019-03-23, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
The, uh, reason why there were so many ghost-martyrs was specifically because Xykon killed everyone in the room first.
Also, in all fairness, short of a literal glowing neon signpost saying "SMASH GATE NOW" appearing in the throne room, I can't really imagine how much more of a malign miracle could have been contrived to give Miko the wrong impression here.Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2019-03-23, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Considering that Xykon and Redcloak would have lost if it weren’t for Miko “fulfilling the divine destiny that the Twelve Gods revealed to [her],” we can safely say that Xykon would’ve lost if it weren’t for...
A. Miko being an idiot and shattering the gate instead of killing Xykon and Redcloak
B. Redcloak figuring out how to Turn/Destroy the Deathless
C. Miko killing Shojo, allowing X and RC to learn where the gate was
D. Possibly Symbol of Insanity, if the ghosts appearing didn’t mean ALL the paladins having to die, allowing X to be killed soon enough that Miko would destroy the gate AFTER he died, if at all.
Half of these are Miko’s fault, one of which is related to the ACTUAL principle of this thread.
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2019-03-23, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Oh, NoHax, you sweet summer child.
Let me ask you a question. In a universe where the Gods are objectively real, and objectively manifest miraculous powers, and objectively have this vast celestial bureaucracy that monitors their mortal followers' every word, thought and deed, and where Miko just so happens to be second-in-command of a major religious organisation charged with safeguarding both all mortal souls and the Gods themselves, and is perhaps the single most powerful paladin currently in their service... why, in this universe... would they not have a plan for her? What kind of putzes would the Gods have to be to not think that she is important?Give directly to the extreme poor.
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2019-03-23, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
So before she became the most powerful paladin, the gods had a plan for the previous one? And they now have a plan for the current most powerful one, O-Chul (presumably. Other pallys were outside of Azure City at the time, but we don't know their power). Every most-powerful-paladin has had a plan by the gods that transferred upon death?
Also, doesnt that mean that Miko stopped being planned for the moment she fell? Not being a paladin anymore and all?
And, for that matter, why are paladins the ones that the Gods have plans for? You don't need to be religious to be a paladin. You have nothing to do with the deities. You could happen to also worship a Deity, but nothing in the class description says anything even remotely close to tying you into service to a Deity. The Sapphire Guard was certainly very religious, but by all indications Azurites in general were, so that doesn't indicate anything. So, with zero connection to a god, wouldn't the highest level cleric be the one that the Gods have a plan for? Which, again, is presumably an instantly-transferable-upon-death kind of deal? Man, That must make it really awkward for whoever gets the new spotlight of Chosen One only to have it take away again when the previous one gets the Chosen One card back after getting rezzed.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-03-23, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Hinjo rather than O-Chul, and I could well believe that they have a plan for any and all members of a more or less subordinate organization, in as much as "park them on the Azure City gate and have them guard it" can be called a plan. Which is not to say that Miko was any sort of Chosen One.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-03-23, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-03-23, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Based on the events in the comic, it would actually be easy to conclude that some god had a plan for Miko. Check out Soon's words to Xykon: He can't personally destroy Xykon's phylactery, but he can instruct the first mortal to enter the room in the particulars. In that same strip, as Soon raised his katana to finish off Redcloak and send Xykon to his phylactery, it was revealed that there was a non-goblin mortal in the room.
And yet, though the status of ultimate hero of the comic and destroyer of Xykon passed within inches of Miko's hands, she closed those hands on a different destiny.
For a good reason that was someone else's fault, no doubt.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-03-23, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-03-23, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015