Crusader Kings II Thread V: Umayyad Bro?

[Narkis]

So, I started as a Cuman nomad in the new bookmark. I wanted to see A) if Europe would develop normally instead of the usual earlier start date cluster**** and B) how Nomads actually play, as I hadn't tried them before.

Results concerning A have been mixed. On one hand, Europe hasn't descend into the usual patchwork of ugly borders. On the other, the Coptic Christians conquered Mecca 30 years in and the resulting Jihad wasn't able to expel them.

The nomads are pretty fun to play though. And I succeeded in the immortality event for the first time ever. Now I'm thinking of conquering the world with my immortal Khagan and his progeny.

[Flickerdart]

I found the reason for the CtDs - the "change realm names from dynasty to title" mod. Disabled it and things are going well, the Chief of Tver is in a good place to expand with his Subjugation CB. Forming the Kingdom of Vladimir within the first decade or so is easy if you leverage retinues and the Build Legend option.

I will have to take on my neighbours to the south soon, and they are relatively powerful. Perhaps I will wait until their rulers die, so that their armies are diminished.

[IthilanorStPete]

I found the reason for the CtDs - the "change realm names from dynasty to title" mod. Disabled it and things are going well, the Chief of Tver is in a good place to expand with his Subjugation CB. Forming the Kingdom of Vladimir within the first decade or so is easy if you leverage retinues and the Build Legend option.

I will have to take on my neighbours to the south soon, and they are relatively powerful. Perhaps I will wait until their rulers die, so that their armies are diminished.

Why do you need a mod for changing realm names to be based on title? There's a game rule for doing that.

[Flickerdart]

Why do you need a mod for changing realm names to be based on title? There's a game rule for doing that.

I haven't played in a long time, before game rules were a thing

[russdm]

I started a random world history game, using i think the earliest start date (7++) or the 1066 one. Can't recall which. I then used the Ruler Designer to make an Anglo-Saxon character, Chief Aeflred(Aeflrad) Templar of York, he is a legitmatised bastard with 3 kids, one son and 2 daughters; Aeflred also has a wife and 3 concubines, yay Tribal. I made the world predominantly Tribal rather then Feudal, and Went random for Religious, Historical for Culture. I also dropped out Empires and Kingdoms and Most Duchies, with a few in existence.

The Immediate area around my Character is Catholic (His county is Catholic), with a couple of counties being that heading wards Scotland's area. Think the area up above me is all Orthodox? (I will need to look and examine it) The rest of England is of a different religion, African as you can see. I also don't know where the other Catholic Bunch is, since I set the rule for more pagans.

Catholic Moral Authority is about 15-20 % and my character has an option to increase it as an ambition. I went with making England a Kingdom. Have also given my character a bunch of gold to help him along. I can setup a run of how this game goes, if people are interested.



Then there is also my restarting my Habsburg game, and my planned Holy Land, and my Black Adder game. I will try to report on that as well, once i get it going. Also, can any figure out happened to make the spread of the religion happen with more Pagans to get the results?

[snowblizz]

Ran into something I didn't quite understand on one my frequent re-starts in Sweden.

The Pope calls a crusade, the first one on a 1066 start I imagine, it's around 1090. I see the interface has changed, well there is one now. I accept the call. I even mistakenly add some cash into the pool. I pick my brother for beneficiary, because I've been king of Jerusalem once and I'm not falling for that again.

Finishing a local sqaubble with Norway my raised trops head for the nearest coast and transports and we all end up in the holy land in time to part take in the tail end of the crusade. I beat some minor armies, I have like 3k tropos so not a major part. We win rather easily apparently, and then, once again, I'm considered the victor of the crusades? Huh okay. Well my brother gets the job and the game gives me the option to have that job, neat (I'm still nto going to be fooled stupid game). All done and I get a huge pool of cash and cred! Wow. I was wiped out do to having lost the elective crown and had to revolt to get it back into my divinely appointed hands again (also the cause for the Norwegian squabble, the idiot king immediately lost territory to Norway going on an ill conceived pagan rampage, I don't think the game should call me the Usurper :( I *saved* the nation from incompetence and for christianity, not myself honest!). Anyway...


When the Sword of Christ got home with his victorious trops the new pope, old one died, suddenly slaps me with a 200 piety penalty for not crusading despite promises??? wtf? Didn't I just 10 turns ago win the whole damn thing? Does it have anything to do with some jihad or holy war someone started after I left the holy lands or what? Is it a bug?

[Keltest]

Ran into something I didn't quite understand on one my frequent re-starts in Sweden.

The Pope calls a crusade, the first one on a 1066 start I imagine, it's around 1090. I see the interface has changed, well there is one now. I accept the call. I even mistakenly add some cash into the pool. I pick my brother for beneficiary, because I've been king of Jerusalem once and I'm not falling for that again.

Finishing a local sqaubble with Norway my raised trops head for the nearest coast and transports and we all end up in the holy land in time to part take in the tail end of the crusade. I beat some minor armies, I have like 3k tropos so not a major part. We win rather easily apparently, and then, once again, I'm considered the victor of the crusades? Huh okay. Well my brother gets the job and the game gives me the option to have that job, neat (I'm still nto going to be fooled stupid game). All done and I get a huge pool of cash and cred! Wow. I was wiped out do to having lost the elective crown and had to revolt to get it back into my divinely appointed hands again (also the cause for the Norwegian squabble, the idiot king immediately lost territory to Norway going on an ill conceived pagan rampage, I don't think the game should call me the Usurper :( I *saved* the nation from incompetence and for christianity, not myself honest!). Anyway...


When the Sword of Christ got home with his victorious trops the new pope, old one died, suddenly slaps me with a 200 piety penalty for not crusading despite promises??? wtf? Didn't I just 10 turns ago win the whole damn thing? Does it have anything to do with some jihad or holy war someone started after I left the holy lands or what? Is it a bug?

With a crusade, as long as you participate at all, you get a fraction of the war chest and piety based on how much you participated. However, if you were late or for whatever reason didn't participate as much as the pope wants you to, you'll get hit with penalties up and and including being excommunicated. Yes, even if youre in the middle of a rebellion or war already. I think the only exception is if youre in a holy war already.

[snowblizz]

With a crusade, as long as you participate at all, you get a fraction of the war chest and piety based on how much you participated. However, if you were late or for whatever reason didn't participate as much as the pope wants you to, you'll get hit with penalties up and and including being excommunicated. Yes, even if youre in the middle of a rebellion or war already. I think the only exception is if youre in a holy war already.

Can I check this somewhere, the crusade interface? I'm very puzzled, we won the crusade, I was there and was granted a name and the holy lands by the pope! How can I not have been participating enough? And this piety loss was long after we successfully completed the crusade! As far as I can tell no other crusade was called that I was invited to join. The closest I cna see was a pop-up about counter jihad. But there was no event button for that. Just popepd up and let me click "troubling".

As far as I can tell I joined the crusade, won it, was the principal beneficiary (I got like 9000gc and similarly in piety, is that not a lot? Seemed like it was), and then get chastised for not doing enough? Eh? I've alway known the Pope must be nuts...

I keep trying to get into this game but it's always the same, I can't control anything enough to figure out what the frick is going on behind the scenes and what consequences my actions have.

[Keltest]

Can I check this somewhere, the crusade interface? I'm very puzzled, we won the crusade, I was there and was granted a name and the holy lands by the pope! How can I not have been participating enough? And this piety loss was long after we successfully completed the crusade! As far as I can tell no other crusade was called that I was invited to join. The closest I cna see was a pop-up about counter jihad. But there was no event button for that. Just popepd up and let me click "troubling".

As far as I can tell I joined the crusade, won it, was the principal beneficiary (I got like 9000gc and similarly in piety, is that not a lot? Seemed like it was), and then get chastised for not doing enough? Eh? I've alway known the Pope must be nuts...

I keep trying to get into this game but it's always the same, I can't control anything enough to figure out what the frick is going on behind the scenes and what consequences my actions have.

Its possible the new pope just doesn't like you that much so he's antagonizing you. Or it could be a bug. I am, however, deeply confused how you managed to be the main contributor with only 3k troops. England alone can muster something like 10k if theyre united as a single kingdom.

[tyckspoon]

Its possible the new pope just doesn't like you that much so he's antagonizing you. Or it could be a bug. I am, however, deeply confused how you managed to be the main contributor with only 3k troops. England alone can muster something like 10k if theyre united as a single kingdom.

I haven't been playing much lately, so they might have gotten better at it, but my memory is the AI is just utterly terrible at actually prosecuting a war - when they go Crusading they tend to end up just chasing around enemy stacks or capturing and recapturing the same two provinces over and over, so they don't actually do much to rack up warscore. A player-controlled army can get a lot of credit as the biggest contributor by going around and sieging down provinces the AI isn't paying attention to, or by getting there ahead of the AI doomstacks so the player gets credit as the 'siege leader' or battle-leader even if the AI troops actually did the work.

..Also when you have a popular Crusade (AI tends to go all-in on the very first one called) there's like fifty characters involved, and it doesn't take very much for the player to be rated as the highest contributor/Crusade 'winner' when nobody else has more than like 5% score credited to them.

[Rockphed]

I haven't been playing much lately, so they might have gotten better at it, but my memory is the AI is just utterly terrible at actually prosecuting a war - when they go Crusading they tend to end up just chasing around enemy stacks or capturing and recapturing the same two provinces over and over, so they don't actually do much to rack up warscore. A player-controlled army can get a lot of credit as the biggest contributor by going around and sieging down provinces the AI isn't paying attention to, or by getting there ahead of the AI doomstacks so the player gets credit as the 'siege leader' or battle-leader even if the AI troops actually did the work.

..Also when you have a popular Crusade (AI tends to go all-in on the very first one called) there's like fifty characters involved, and it doesn't take very much for the player to be rated as the highest contributor/Crusade 'winner' when nobody else has more than like 5% score credited to them.

Participating in battle is one of the best ways to build up crusade participation. At the same time, I managed to turn a -74% war-score crusade into a win by creating a crusader state and then managing to beat the AI doomstack. Pagan attrition is a beast.

[Flickerdart]

Wow, they really added a lot of cool religious mechanics. What the heck is a Bon?

[Keltest]

Wow, they really added a lot of cool religious mechanics. What the heck is a Bon?

In what context?

[Artanis]

Wow, they really added a lot of cool religious mechanics. What the heck is a Bon?

According to the wiki, Bon is a religion that's (usually) around the Tibetan Plateau. It was added in the patch that came with Jade Dragon.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Bon is what they're calling pre-Buddhism Tibetan faith, though it's actually poorly recorded in English literature.

[SZbNAhL]

According to the ever-reliable Wikipedia, Bon was a shamanistic religion in Zhangzhung, which was replaced by Buddhism during the Tibetan conquest in the 7th century. I think the real reason Paradox added it was so that they could have the Bon Apetite achievement. It's too perfect a pun to have been an accident.

[snowblizz]

So tonight I, totally by chance, figure out what use a fort is. Can you imagine how much more easily one can campaign in pagan Finland to spread the glory of Catholicism and Swedish Lagom when armies don't die doen to 2k in a couple rounds.

Story of my play in this game. Everything seems insurmountably hard then find out some key thing I've never been able to read up on* and things are suddenly quite a bit easier.

Still can't figure out the tradeposts as non-patrician (don't have that dlc). Thinking maybe I simply am not supposed to be allowed them. I guess I need the Silk Road to have a major traderoute if am not a patrician?

(*) is there good guides anywhere? I tried the forums, some wiki and so on but they all assume I have loads of dlc or otherwise aren't easily digestible.

[Keltest]

So tonight I, totally by chance, figure out what use a fort is. Can you imagine how much more easily one can campaign in pagan Finland to spread the glory of Catholicism and Swedish Lagom when armies don't die doen to 2k in a couple rounds.

Story of my play in this game. Everything seems insurmountably hard then find out some key thing I've never been able to read up on* and things are suddenly quite a bit easier.

Still can't figure out the tradeposts as non-patrician (don't have that dlc). Thinking maybe I simply am not supposed to be allowed them. I guess I need the Silk Road to have a major traderoute if am not a patrician?

(*) is there good guides anywhere? I tried the forums, some wiki and so on but they all assume I have loads of dlc or otherwise aren't easily digestible.

There should be a map mode that shows the major trade routes. Usually beyond the silk road the only ones are by sea around Italy, I think.

[mythmonster2]

There are also non-republic trade posts in Africa, to represent the gold/salt/slave/ivory trade. But I think you need Jade Dragon to access those, too, not just the Silk Road.

[tyckspoon]

Still can't figure out the tradeposts as non-patrician (don't have that dlc). Thinking maybe I simply am not supposed to be allowed them. I guess I need the Silk Road to have a major traderoute if am not a patrician?

Yup. Trade posts are a major Merchant Republic mechanic; it was later expanded to the Silk Road provinces. If you're not a Merchant Republic or on a Silk Road province then your only real interaction with Trade Posts is occasionally trashing one in a war or raiding party.

[IthilanorStPete]

Just got the Cursader Kings board game that was kickstarted. Looks like a lot of fun, with lots of character wackiness and political scheming. And Glitterhoof.

[Caelestion]

I'm still waiting on mine. Curse you!

[snowblizz]

I get the feeling game is slightly biased towards me with the crusades. I inherited my brother's kingdom of Jerusalem (no heirs, his wife was staying at my court???) which was much nicer to play when not suffering from "new administration" everywhere.

A new crusade was called against Egypt and as the Sword of the Lord I felt obliged. I think most of the lifting was done by the pope but others came as well, am almost positive I wasn't the biggest contributor... yet my grandson was offered the Kingdom of Egypt so I thought wth I'll try that and switched character. Old dude being old anyway and not long for the world.

I dig those artefacts you get, so much nicer to run into duels when you have crusader armour and a holy warhammer.

[IthilanorStPete]

I might be too used to blobbing in this game. Started as the King of Leon in 1066, now...

Spoiler: Large image

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[Keltest]

I might be too used to blobbing in this game. Started as the King of Leon in 1066, now...

Spoiler: Large image

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Is your next goal that light blue block off to the right that may or may not be Mongolia?

[IthilanorStPete]

Is your next goal that light blue block off to the right that may or may not be Mongolia?

The light blue blob is indeed Mongolia; the slightly darker blue blob is the Sultanate of Daylam/Persia, which formerly included Iraq and Arabia before a crusade. I took the territory myself, because with the Pope being my vassal, I don't really care about his opinion.

Actually, my current goal is getting my vassals under control; I've been over my vassal limit for long enough that I'm barely raising any vassal levies or collecting any taxes. I would love to enact Imperial Administration, but I've got a number of laws to change before I can do that.

[JadedDM]

Quick question: My chancellor has a diplomacy score of 19, but his odds of fabricating a claim are only 3.38%. I was under the impression that the higher the relevant score, the more successful a council member is at a task, but is that not right? Or am I suffering from some kind of glitch?

[tyckspoon]

Quick question: My chancellor has a diplomacy score of 19, but his odds of fabricating a claim are only 3.38%. I was under the impression that the higher the relevant score, the more successful a council member is at a task, but is that not right? Or am I suffering from some kind of glitch?

That's the odds of success on.. I want to say a monthly basis? Even the best councilors don't get more than like 10% chance on that; you expect to need to leave the guy parked somewhere for a year or two to get results. It's not a fast way to make claims. That may also be showing his chance to score a claim on a Duchy, which a sufficiently skilled chancellor can do; it's a lot easier to get a single county claim.

I vaguely remember a recent set of patch notes mentioning something about changing the effectiveness rate of council actions, too - effectively your 19 Diplomacy isn't as good as he used to be at that, probably because players are more aware of ways to optimize their council through courtier breeding programs, controlled educations, and just straight up using the character finder to locate and invite the highest stat character that is willing to leave their current position.

Trigger chances for Councilor job events were rebalanced to take into account attribute scores up to 22, instead of the previous 13

Found the patch it was done in. Pretty sure this means your councilor now needs to have stat 22+ to get best results, where before he got the best increase rate at anything 13+ (eg, he may now have a base success of 2.5% + .1 per stat point, where before he would have been getting 3% +.5 or something for being in the top bracket.)

[tonberrian]

Last I checked, forging a claim on a county is what the numbers show for, the odds for a duchy claim are much lower... but if you already have the county claim, the next time the claim event fires it'll give you the duchy claim.

[snowblizz]

Last I checked, forging a claim on a county is what the numbers show for, the odds for a duchy claim are much lower... but if you already have the county claim, the next time the claim event fires it'll give you the duchy claim.

Kingdom claims or nothing! Life is to short to claims land county by county, duchy by dychy.

Oh, what are the benefits of haivng "friendly" cardinals? I found I can chip in to help my bishops get a red hat, but is it worth my (peasant's) hard earned cash?