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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    That would be clean, but perhaps get one from class? As feats are still so scarce for melee. That would fulfill what Cosi says, about the default being an adept of one discipline, but then with the option to branch out.

    Edit: They could be formatted as tactical feats, potentially. Noncombat equivalents to the combat tactical feats the disciplines already have.

    Or they could just be utility maneuvers. I don't actually think any but a couple of the things we've mentioned would be overpowered as at-wills.

    I know Eldan mentioned this earlier up, but it seems like most of them could be stances, too. A Shadow Hand stance that lets you travel as a wraith through the plane of shadow, crossing great distances in the mortal world, Diamond Mind meditation stance that gives you benefits if you spend one hour in it, the earth-shaping Stone Dragon stance Eldan mentioned and so on.

    Setting Sun is about using cleverness to overcome larger opponents. So I think their shtick should be cleverness and ingenuity. That's not a trait covered by the other disciplines, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Perhaps instead of throwing enemies around, they could do similar things to structures?
    I think this takes it too far from the purely mechanical, leverage-based heart of the discipline.

    But I'm reminded of how in this novel, Theseus, who again is *so* Setting Sun, uses a lever and fulcrum to lift a giant rock. Perhaps SSers have almost MacGyvery resourcefulness? It would fit the theme of the "scrappy hero" that seems tied to the discipline, for example in its legacy weapon story. They could get skill bonuses, create effects equivalent to Grease and Glitterdust, have some effect equivalent to shapesand (refluffed as macgyvering impromptu materials). If Shadow Hand is the "stealthy assassin" side of rogue, then Setting Sun is the "skillmonkey" side. They can break out of jail, or you thrust them in the driver's seat and they learn how to fly the plane on the go, or they figure out how to work the ancient machine.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-02-26 at 04:57 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Unfinished alpha version of the ranger class, Animist, in this thread. Feedback great.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMS View Post
    The other thing to consider is that anything we do will up the power level, since more options usually translates to more power. One idea is Martial Practices from 4e, gated behind a feat? Think rituals that are martial. Avoids some power creep, out of combat only, and cool and flexible.
    I'm not at all concerned about power creep in this case. Tome of Battle characters get almost no utility. Giving them some makes them better, but it makes them better at something they are bad at, which is unlikely to be unbalancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    To avoid power creep one option is to make there be a separate feat for each discipline which gives one the utility benefits of that discipline. They could have the same prereqs, say some number of ranks in the relevant skill and at least one maneuver from that discipline.
    The tendency to make everything a feat is a huge problem in 3e, because people don't get nearly enough feats. I think the appropriate comparison point is something like the Incarnate or the Wizard where the utility is just something you can do for free if you want, and all it costs is temporarily not getting to use those resources for combat power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    That would fulfill what Cosi says, about the default being an adept of one discipline, but then with the option to branch out.
    I wouldn't quite say default. I think it needs to be supported, and Tome of Battle does a bad job of doing it (there is no discipline that has enough maneuvers for a 1st level Swordsage to know only that discipline). I think there are a couple of characters that need to be viable:

    1. Discipline specialist. If you tell people that there is a Shadow Hand fighting style for them to do, there are going to be some people who want to be Shadow Hand masters that fight purely with Shadow Hand. That's a reasonable desire, and the fluff of Tome of Battle suggests that pre-Reshar most people operated this way. Obstacle: there are not enough maneuvers to do this.
    2. Generalist. Just as there will be people who want to go all-in on Shadow Hand or Tiger Claw or whatever, there will also be people who want to learn all the kinds of maneuvers they can. Obstacle: maneuver pre-requisites mean this requires a lot of planning.
    3. Pre-Tome of Battle fighting styles. I mean "pre-Tome of Battle" in a mechanical sense here. People want to be able to TWF, or shoot bows, or ride horses and still use maneuvers. Obstacle: maneuvers work much better with two-handed or sword-and-board fighting than most other styles.

    You want to support all three of those (and probably some others). That means you need to write a bunch of new maneuvers (like two or three times as many), reduce or eliminate maneuver pre-reqs (I favor eliminate, but I think reducing and homogenizing to "one other for 4th, two others for 7th" is passable), and you need to go back and make maneuvers work for people with bows or twin daggers.

    Or they could just be utility maneuvers. I don't actually think any but a couple of the things we've mentioned would be overpowered as at-wills.
    Certainly some of them could be, and I think in many cases they should be. But for pure utility things, there are advantages to removing the tradeoff between combat power and utility, even for things that are fine at-will. If you let people trade their utility power for even better stabbing, some people will do that, and I don't really think that's a good outcome.

    I know Eldan mentioned this earlier up, but it seems like most of them could be stances, too. A Shadow Hand stance that lets you travel as a wraith through the plane of shadow, crossing great distances in the mortal world, Diamond Mind meditation stance that gives you benefits if you spend one hour in it, the earth-shaping Stone Dragon stance Eldan mentioned and so on.
    People get like four stances. If you do this, that number needs to go up a lot. Though, to be fair, it needs to go up some anyway.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I had many posts selected to reply to, but my tablet lost the selections before I could transfer them to my laptop which is much easier to type on. Will redo later. Fortunately I hadn't actually typed any of my replies.

    What is your take on adding homebrew maneuvers to ToB disciplines? What I have is very niche, but if we are granting more maneuvers known/readied (which is it BTW?) then they would become more viable. Plus, of course, even niche stuff can be good for Martial Scripts. Specifically I have an Anti-Swallow Whole stance and maneuver for Tiger Claw*, and intend on using this project to motivate myself to actually write a Stone Dragon one**. I technically also have some Devoted Spirit stuff, but I DO NOT recommend it since it requires adding in the Funky/Square axis of alignment, which wasn't my invention to begin with.
    *It now occurs to me that the maneuver could MAYBE be argued to be better moved to Iron Heart or MAYBE Stone Dragon since it involves a fairly precise attack based on very subtle visual cues and/or knowledge of anatomy. Of course, since it involves cutting toward the stomach (from the outside, to help a comrade escape) that has vague connotations of "rip their guts out" which is a Tiger Claw 'feel'.
    **The idea I have is pretty good I think, but both the numbers and the name I may need some suggestions for.

    Also, you don't have a link in creatures for my Tittering Brick Squirrel. Is this intentional?

    Lastly IIRC your Falling Star link under Disciplines actually goes to the "Refactoring ToB Archery" thread and thus should be three different links. Unless you wanted to mash them back together into a single discipline which I don't think would be wise.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post

    People get like four stances. If you do this, that number needs to go up a lot. Though, to be fair, it needs to go up some anyway.
    Yeah, the number of stances one gets is *tiny*.
    My homebrew:

    Spoiler
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    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    What is your take on adding homebrew maneuvers to ToB disciplines? What I have is very niche, but if we are granting more maneuvers known/readied (which is it BTW?) then they would become more viable.
    Adding new maneuvers to the core 9 is a definite yes.

    Everyone is probably getting more maneuvers known. Swordsage would be the only one to get more readied, and that's only if we don't switch to Cosi's suggestion of letting them refresh by swapping stances, which IMO is a possibility since one-stance-itis is a thing and if there's a class that would refresh via swift it would be swordsage. Opinions?
    These changes to base classes would be grouped under Errata.

    *It now occurs to me that the maneuver could MAYBE be argued to be better moved to Iron Heart...Of course, since it involves cutting toward the stomach (from the outside, to help a comrade escape) that has vague connotations of "rip their guts out" which is a Tiger Claw 'feel'.
    If you do want to move it, it would fit Hero's Edge, since that discipline is all about crazy trope stunts against giant monsters.

    **The idea I have is pretty good I think, but both the numbers and the name I may need some suggestions for.
    The name is great imo. I would remove the acid resistance.

    Also, you don't have a link in creatures for my Tittering Brick Squirrel. Is this intentional?
    Added.

    Lastly IIRC your Falling Star link under Disciplines actually goes to the "Refactoring ToB Archery" thread and thus should be three different links. Unless you wanted to mash them back together into a single discipline which I don't think would be wise.
    Yes, may as well use those three (though renaming Falcon's Eye to Falling Star, since that's such a great name for an archery discipline, and to avoid double bird reference). Changed.

    ------

    Utilities

    As people have pointed out, utility stances are a bad idea, and I agree with Cosi that feats are too much of a tax. So that leaves Eldan's idea of discipline benefits, and/or utility maneuvers.

    Eldan's idea is cool. What if these were skill tricks? Feats and stances are too scarce, but people have skill points to spend.

    Whether or not we do that, should there be utility maneuvers and also discipline benefits, or is having both unnecessary?
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-05 at 02:46 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Will probably respond to more of this post later. For now I'll just hit the easy stuff.an
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post

    If you do want to move it, it would fit Hero's Edge, since that discipline is all about crazy trope stunts against giant monsters.
    Don't want to move it personally, just aware that there is an outside chance it would be a good idea. Moving both to Heroes Edge (or even duplicating them? that happens in ToB itself...) would be an option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    The name is great imo. I would remove the acid resistance.
    Err... You misunderstood me on one point and I would strongly disagree on another.

    The names for the Tigerclaw stance and maneuver are fine. It is a STONE DRAGON maneuver that I haven't written yet that I am worried about finding a good name...

    The best I can get so far is "Faultlines and Avalanches Build Over Time". Basic idea is: Stand in one spot for as long as you like charging it up. Make one attack (even a charge) on the turn you end it, with bonuses based on how long you charged. Good for ambushes... Maybe too good and you.start producing harmless tremors after a certain stage, which can serve as a warning to those in the know.

    As for the acid resistance on Stance of the Puffferfish, it makes sense to be resistant to a damage type that is not ubiquitous in general (unlike bludgeoning) but IS present in most swallow whole attacks, especially if you are doing it intentionally. Also it makes it slightly less niche (and remember one doesn't get many stance picks even if we beef it up a bit) while remaining much smaller numbers than the Desert Wind stance that gives you Fire Resistance based on Tumble ranks.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-03-05 at 01:48 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    I had many posts selected to reply to, but my tablet lost the selections before I could transfer them to my laptop which is much easier to type on. Will redo later. Fortunately I hadn't actually typed any of my replies.

    What is your take on adding homebrew maneuvers to ToB disciplines? What I have is very niche, but if we are granting more maneuvers known/readied (which is it BTW?) then they would become more viable. Plus, of course, even niche stuff can be good for Martial Scripts. Specifically I have an Anti-Swallow Whole stance and maneuver for Tiger Claw*, and intend on using this project to motivate myself to actually write a Stone Dragon one**. I technically also have some Devoted Spirit stuff, but I DO NOT recommend it since it requires adding in the Funky/Square axis of alignment, which wasn't my invention to begin with.
    *It now occurs to me that the maneuver could MAYBE be argued to be better moved to Iron Heart or MAYBE Stone Dragon since it involves a fairly precise attack based on very subtle visual cues and/or knowledge of anatomy. Of course, since it involves cutting toward the stomach (from the outside, to help a comrade escape) that has vague connotations of "rip their guts out" which is a Tiger Claw 'feel'.
    **The idea I have is pretty good I think, but both the numbers and the name I may need some suggestions for.

    Also, you don't have a link in creatures for my Tittering Brick Squirrel. Is this intentional?

    Lastly IIRC your Falling Star link under Disciplines actually goes to the "Refactoring ToB Archery" thread and thus should be three different links. Unless you wanted to mash them back together into a single discipline which I don't think would be wise.
    If I made a Tiger Claw swallow whole maneuver, I'd either make it "Tear their throat out from the inside as they swallow you" (as a reaction) or "Claw your way out the stomach" (as a maneuver)
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I distinctly remember that I once had a thread about giving monsters maneuvers, but I can't find it now. I might go back to that. Basically, just homebrew versions of monsters with maneuvers to make them cooler. (I still want a Tiger Claw/Infinite Torment/Army of One Marilith.
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    Update on the Legacy Weapons. The ones I've finished are bolded. LMK if you have ideas.

    The likely weapon properties of the unfinished ones are in ( )s.

    Spoiler: legacy weps
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    Reshar was a man of many marketing tricks, and one of his most influential has been the idea of a discipline weapon. Like the ideas of many great marketers, he didn’t invent it: the Wind Dervishes have long idealized the scimitar Desert Wind as the beautiful paragon of weapons, so much that the discipline may have been named in its honor — or more likely, Rashid ben Daoud may have named it after the style he practiced. And Kamate’s importance to the goblin people hardly needs explaining.

    But it was Reshar who brought the idea to its crest. And it was more than just a gimmick: the Nine Swords themselves were changed by the force of Reshar’s purpose, intertwined with the disciplines he saw they embodied. That’s why they grant some of their discipline’s powers to those who wield them.

    By definition, a legacy weapon changes with what it goes through. So being used as the embodiment of a discipline by a master of that discipline will bend such a weapon’s nature to be what they use it as. So long, that is — and here’s the catch — as the nature of its legacy truly does embody that discipline to start with.


    Army of One - Animated shield.
    Black Rain - Gun
    Bloodstained Gutter - Shiv
    Broken Blade - Swordbane, a swordbreaker with the rusting property but can also rust magic weapons. It destroyed the Sublime Tapestry sword.
    Chthonic Serpent - whip or spiked chain (viper)
    Coin’s Edge - The Original Luckblade?
    Cosmic Imperator - The Ego Scepter
    Dancing Leaf - Rapier or elven courtblade? (parrying, defending)
    Falling Anvil - Frying Pan of Doom, Vlax’s Rubber Chicken
    Falling Star - Longbow (seeking)
    Fool’s Grip - universal weapon that can morph
    Manticore Volley/Iron Rain or whatever - Repeating crossbow (explosive and probably splitting)
    Narrow Bridge - A kusari-gama, quarterstaff, or two bladed sword - one side positive, one negative.
    Ocean Soul - Coral’s Bite, the trident from Weapons of Legacy, updated like Desert Wind was.
    Penitent Martyr - Remorse, flail
    Phoenix Feather - Magic elven longbow (force and probably splitting)
    Relentless Dusk - Camonglane, Mace of Oblivion
    Scarlet Bravura - Blood Promise and Nematryon, the Leader’s Dare
    Sublime Tapestry - The Hilt (the blade was destroyed by Swordbane). (Just looked, what a great coincidence: “Alone, it is an incomplete style, like a sword hilt without the blade.” )
    Twin Spirit - Heartfallen, valorous lance
    Venerable Battlefield - The Godsword, fullblade
    Witch Razor - greatsword because that’s what dusk- and hex- blades use. (curse-spewing)

    [Antimagic discipline] - (magebane impedance)
    Mental Grip - (psychokinetic)
    Sleeping Goddess - (psychic)

    —Planar Disciplines—
    The weapons of the planar disciplines weren’t made by normal means, but rather were pulled out of the essence of their plane by powerful outsiders in ages past.

    Infinite Torment - “Flamescourge" or something dramatic like that (anarchic, unholy)
    Golden Saint - aurorum greatsword (holy, heap on all the BOED ones).
    Kaleidoscopic Dream - Meteor hammer? Idk
    Ninefold Damnation - cornugon spiked chain or barbezu glaive (axiomatic, unholy, flaming)
    Far Realm - kaorti resin weird weapon (illithidwrought)
    Stygian Nightmare - Scythe (stygian)
    Quicksilver Aegis - The Quicksilver Aegis, a mercury breastplate that turns you into a being of liquid mercury, providing DR etc, and the Axiom Axe.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-07 at 12:58 PM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    For the psychic disciplines, I'd suggest intelligent weapons.

    Planar Disciplines: Maybe look at what the highest level generic exemplars of those disciplines use? A balor's flaming whip for Infinite Torment. Golden Saint is actually a discipline that annoys me, because it covers all three celestial exemplar races, different as they are and the totally unrelated angels. Anyway, solars use dancing greatswords. Sadly, the only high level slaad in third edition is the Death Slaad, who isn't even a proper slaad and doesn't use weapons. Weirdly enough, and never noticed this, pit fiends don't use weapons either (but balors do? Shouldn't devils be more civilized than demons?).

    For the Far realm (that discipline needs another name), how about a kaorti resin weapon? They are frightfully powerful, but they fit. Alternatively, I'd suggest a shifting spear that counts as a tentacle for proficiencies. Just because shifting your weapon length is nicely fitting.

    Stygian nightmare... should that even be a planar discipline? IT seems to take the place of a Yugoloth Discipline, which could be fascinating. I might write one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Planar Disciplines: Maybe look at what the highest level generic exemplars of those disciplines use? A balor's flaming whip for Infinite Torment.
    Either a flaming whip or a flame-/lightning-looking longsword would work for Infinite Torment. For Ninefold Damnation, a spiked chain (for kytons) or a glaive (for barbazu) would probably work better than a pitchfork since D&D devils don't have the "human with red skin, horns, tail, and pitchfork" motif going on.

    Weirdly enough, and never noticed this, pit fiends don't use weapons either (but balors do? Shouldn't devils be more civilized than demons?).
    It's not a matter of civilized vs. uncivilized, but rather of preferred fighting styles. Pit fiends don't use weapons because, while they can fall back to natural weapons like every powerful outsider, they're primarily casters and commanders. Balors are the reverse: they use a whip and sword because, while they can rely on their magic to attack from range, they like to slaughter their victims up close and personal, and using a whip that can pull foes closer plus a sword that can take enemies' heads clean off is a very effective way to do that.
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Mm. Fair, I can accept that. That said, if there ever was a pit fiend who liked getting up close, I'd outfit them with some plate armour.
    I solemnly swear,
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    For as long as I shall live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Golden Saint is actually a discipline that annoys me, because it covers all three celestial exemplar races,

    Stygian nightmare... should that even be a planar discipline?
    As long as they're different, I think it's good if it's not strictly 1 discipline per plane because then it's just filling in a spreadsheet. D&D's style is formulaic enough as is.

    Stygian Nightmare should technically be "Hadean/Carcerian Nightmare" but that sounds worse.

    I think Quicksilver Aegis will be a mercury breastplate that turns you to a protean being of liquid mercury because why not. Stygian has to be a scythe I guess. So someone else has to get an axe. Actually, might just give Quicksilver an Axiom Axe since some others have doubles too.

    I like cornugon spiked chain for Hell since it represents torturous imprisonment.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-07 at 10:14 AM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    No, I mean, what annoys me is that there's several disciplines for fiends, but only one discipline for all celestials. So out of the nine exemplar races, you get one discipline each for the Slaad, Modrons, Baatezu and Tanar'ri, sort of one for the Yugoloths and one to share for the Archons, Eladrin and Guardinals, plus the Angels, who don't have a place on a list of planar anything, anyway. (And nothing for the Rilmani, but no one cares about the Rilmani anyway, they are so dull.) It fits the general 3.5 thing wizards did, where all the books are about fiends and the celestials get nothing.

    Anyway, can I design one of these? I don't have too much experience with legacy weapons, but it sounds like a fun project. If so, dibs on a few of the planar ones?
    Last edited by Eldan; 2019-03-07 at 10:19 AM.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Yeah, that would be great. I can do quicksilver, unless Dice wants to do the ones for his disciplines the rest are up for dibs.

    Re: Celestial disciplines, it's true, and I originally wanted to use an altered Silver Crane but it got used by Paizo.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-07 at 11:40 AM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    That said, I just imagined what an Eladrin discipline would look like, and it's basically Desert Wind with a few holy effects. So, maybe not.

    I'll make Ninefold Damnation weapon for now, if that's alright. Though I'll have to re-read how Legacy Weapons work first, I remember not entirely getting it last time.
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    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
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    For as long as I shall live.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Here's the format btw:

    Spoiler: legacy format
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    Legacy Weapon

    [Description]

    Omen:

    History

    (DC 15)

    (DC 20; A)

    (DC 25; B)

    (DC 31; C)


    Legacy Rituals

    The following three rituals are required to unlock all the abilities of X.

    A: Cost: 1500gp. Feat Granted: Least Legacy ( ).

    B: Cost: 13,000gp. Feat Granted: Lesser Legacy ( ).

    C: Cost: 39,000gp. Feat Granted: Greater Legacy ( ).


    Wielder Requirements


    Legacy Item Abilities

    Level Abilities
    5 --
    6 --
    7 --
    8 --
    9 --
    10 --
    11 --
    12 --
    13 --
    14 --
    15 --
    16 --
    17 --
    18 --
    19 --
    20 --

    [descriptions]



    No wielder penalties for these weapons, no need to draw the abilities exclusively from WoL's menus, and to be frank, only a loose need to align with its points metric which I'm sick of at this point. IMO the assumption should be that these weapons require DM approval anyway.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-08 at 09:12 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Okay, perhaps I'm stupid, but I'm reading the book now... how do you tell which abilities on a legacy item are least/lesser/greater? Just by the level they are granted at? The feats just say "You get the Least/Lesser/Greater" abilities, the tables just say which level you get the abilities at, and the explicatory chapters don't tell you which abilities are which at all.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Just granted level. Least 5-10, Lesser 11-16 and Greater 17-20.

    Honestly it should be least/lesser/moderate/major in 5 level brackets but eh.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-07 at 11:55 AM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Belay that. I'm not having any good ideas for Hell, but I'm writing a pretty dang awesome Far Realms weapon right now.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    No, I mean, what annoys me is that there's several disciplines for fiends, but only one discipline for all celestials. So out of the nine exemplar races, you get one discipline each for the Slaad, Modrons, Baatezu and Tanar'ri, sort of one for the Yugoloths and one to share for the Archons, Eladrin and Guardinals, plus the Angels, who don't have a place on a list of planar anything, anyway.[...]It fits the general 3.5 thing wizards did, where all the books are about fiends and the celestials get nothing.
    It's more of an ongoing Great Wheel thing than a 3e thing, really. The devils, daemons, and demons (and the poor neglected demodands) all get their own stuff because they're all fighting with each other all the time, whereas celestials tend to be lumped together because they're one big happy family. Or that's the justification, anyway, but really the archons and eladrin should disagree at least as much as the devils and demons, just not quite so violently and unreasonably.

    (And nothing for the Rilmani, but no one cares about the Rilmani anyway, they are so dull.)
    They can't be dull, they're shiny. And they're plenty cool, they just got short shrift in 3e materials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    Yeah, that would be great. I can do quicksilver, unless Dice wants to do the ones for his disciplines the rest are up for dibs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan
    I'll make Ninefold Damnation weapon for now, if that's alright
    [...]
    Belay that. I'm not having any good ideas for Hell, but I'm writing a pretty dang awesome Far Realms weapon right now.
    I'll do the ones for mine, then. Though I don't know how soon I'll be able to get around to them.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
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    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
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    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...Legacy-Weapon)

    There we go. That roughly qualifies as a weapon. I feel it may be horribly overpowered, though I held myself back from giving it the strongest effect I thought of yesterday. (Untethered in Time: at 17th level, the World Wound will not let such a powerful host die easily. Once per week, when you would die, the World Wound instead casts the psionic power Time Regression on you as an immediate action.)

    Perhaps as an epic legacy.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2019-03-08 at 05:57 AM.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Very cool. Are you supposed to be able to plane shift out of Encapsulate? Would seem balanced since casters are the ones most likely to not have pierce/slash attacks, but I don't know if that was intended.

    I'll put up a thread for all the legacy weapons when I have time to put it together.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I honestly have no idea, it's straight copied from a spell, with just a few changes in how much damage it deals and a new school. (Bite of the King). Probably, yeah.

    I'll write another one when I have time. Which ones are still free?
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I haven't done any more so it looks about the same.

    The ones without a clear concept are Dancing Leaf (a generic elegant elf sword is too boring) and Kaleidoscopic Dream (a meteor hammer might be fitting due to its crazy motion, but anything could work). You could also do your discipline's.

    Spoiler: legacy weps
    Show
    Army of One - Animated shield.
    Black Rain - Gun
    Bloodstained Gutter - Shiv
    Broken Blade - Swordbane, a swordbreaker with the rusting property but can also rust magic weapons. It destroyed the Sublime Tapestry sword.
    Chthonic Serpent - whip or spiked chain [viper]
    Coin’s Edge - "Possibility, the Original Luckblade"
    Cosmic Imperator - The Ego Scepter
    Dancing Leaf -
    Falling Anvil - Frying Pan of Doom, Vlax’s Rubber Chicken
    Falling Star - Longbow (seeking)
    Fool’s Grip - universal weapon that can morph
    Manticore Volley/Iron Rain or whatever - Repeating crossbow [explosive, probably splitting]
    Narrow Bridge - Scales of Balance, updated from WoL like Desert Wind was.
    Ocean Soul - Coral’s Bite, also updated from WoL.
    Penitent Martyr - Remorse, flail
    Phoenix Feather - Magic elven longbow [force + probably splitting]
    Relentless Dusk - Camonglane, Mace of Oblivion
    Scarlet Bravura - Blood Promise and Nematryon, the Leader’s Dare
    Sublime Tapestry - The Hilt (the blade was destroyed by Swordbane). (Just looked, what a great coincidence: “Alone, it is an incomplete style, like a sword hilt without the blade.” )
    Twin Spirit - Heartfallen, valorous lance
    Venerable Battlefield - The Godsword, fullblade
    Witch Razor - greatsword because that’s what dusk- and hex- blades use. [cursespewing]

    —Planar Disciplines—
    The weapons of the planar disciplines weren’t made by normal means, but rather were pulled out of the essence of their plane by powerful outsiders in ages past.

    Infinite Torment - “Flamescourge" or something dramatic like that [anarchic, unholy]
    Golden Saint - aurorum greatsword [holy, heap on all the BOED ones]
    Kaleidoscopic Dream - [anarchic]
    Ninefold Damnation - cornugon spiked chain or barbezu glaive [axiomatic, unholy, flaming]
    Far Realm - World Wound
    Stygian Nightmare - scythe [stygian]
    Quicksilver Aegis - The Quicksilver Aegis, which turns you into a being of liquid mercury, and the Axiom Axe.

    —The "Maybe" Disciplines—
    [Antimagic discipline] - [magebane, impedance]
    Mental Grip - [psychokinetic]
    Sleeping Goddess - [psychic]
    Event Horizon -
    Hero's Edge -


    By the way here's a cheat sheet for the Weapons of Legacy abilities of note.

    For those who don't know the system each weapon gets 1 point per level, and abilities can cost from 1 to 3 points.

    Spoiler: WOL abilities cheat sheet
    Show
    For all of them:
    Enhancement value
    +1 resistance saves, max 5 (free up cloak slot)

    Least (1 level)
    CL/IL 5 SLAs
    Intelligent legacy minor - 13/13/10, extra ego
    Metamagic/Metapsionic Lesser - 3/day free +1mm on slots up to 3rd
    Creature compass - ignore DR on one creature type, detect them within 60ft

    Least (2 levels)
    CL/IL 7 SLAs
    Intelligent Legacy - 16/16/10, extra ego, 60ft darkvis
    Speed+10ft (enhance)

    Least (3 levels)
    (enhance armor +2 if currently +2 or less)
    [no weapon enhance]
    CL/IL 10 SLAs
    Swift action 1st level SLA (restrictions)
    Empower - 3/day free empower on slots up to 3rd


    Lesser (1 level)
    CL/IL 10 SLAs
    Intelligent Legacy Major - 18/18/10, extra ego, telepathy, language, blindsense
    Metamagic/Metapsi - 3/day free +1 mm on slots up to 6th
    Cunning - never flatfooted
    At-will swift action 1st level SLA

    Lesser (2 levels)
    (enhance armor +3 if +2 or less; +2 if +4 or less)
    (enhance weapon +2 if +1)
    CL/IL 11 SLAs
    At-will 2nd level SLA
    Maximize Lesser - 3/day free maximize on slots up to 3rd
    Skill +10 competence

    Lesser (3 levels)
    (enhance armor +4 if +1, +3 if +3, +2 if +6)
    (enhance weapon +2 if +3)
    CL/IL 13 SLAs
    Swift action 3rd level SLA (restrictions)
Evasion
    As ring of xray vision


    Greater (1 level)
    (enhance armor +5 if +2, +4 if +3, +3 if +5, +2 otherwise)
    (enhance weapon +3 if 2, +2 if +5)
    CL/IL 15 SLAs
    +6 ability enhancement
    Empower - 3/day free empower on slots up to 6th
    Mindarmor - +3 will vs mindaffecting,compulsion
    Quicken - 3/day free quicken on slots up to 3rd
    Skill +15 competence
Complete Weapon: +1 weapon enhance, must have taken the Greater (1) enhance option.

    Greater (2 levels)
    (enhance armor +5 if +4, +4 otherwise)
    (enhance weapons +5 if +1, +4 if +2, +3 if +5, +2 if +8)
    CL 17 SLAs but the spells seem to cap at 7th
    1/day swift 6th SLA
    Complete Weapon: +2 weapon enhance, must have taken the Greater (2) enhance option.

    Greater (3 levels)
    (enhance weapon +6 if +1, +5 if +3, +4 if +5, +3 if +7, +2 if 8th)
    CL 20th SLAs, including 9ths
    Swift action 5th level SLA
    3/day free quicken on 6ths
    Complete Weapon: +3 weapon enhance, must have taken the Greater(1) enhance option.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-09 at 10:28 PM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I'm midway into trying my hand at the TOB/Soulknife PrC, is there anything that's intrinsic to it? I currently have the key bits of only needing one level of Soulknife, and allowing shaping of the mind blade into the Nine Swords.
    I was thinking of giving each shape a list of bonuses of something, like getting a few of the manoeuvres from that school or getting a thematic bonus, and having each level let you unlock more bonuses, so you can either get variety or specialise. As for capstone, I was thinking something to do with manifesting all the Nine Swords at once, somehow.
    Away from 17/08/2016 to 19/08/2016. Not sure if posting then.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I'm not sure Bloodstained Gutter should even have a legacy weapon. It's a very informal discipline with no proper teaching.

    I think I'll try Dancing Leaf, make it more fey than just elegant elven.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omoikane13 View Post
    I'm midway into trying my hand at the TOB/Soulknife PrC, is there anything that's intrinsic to it? I currently have the key bits of only needing one level of Soulknife, and allowing shaping of the mind blade into the Nine Swords.
    The default entry would be swordsage4/soulknife 1. Full BAB presumably.

    Fluff-wise, I know some people envision soulknife as having a literal glowing psi-sword and others imagine little glowing handblades. The first one is what I was assuming here.

    I was thinking of giving each shape a list of bonuses of something, like getting a few of the manoeuvres from that school or getting a thematic bonus, and having each level let you unlock more bonuses, so you can either get variety or specialise.
    If it's a 10 level PrC then the obvious temptation is to make it unlock 1 sword per level and then get a big capstone at the end.

    If the swords have synergy with their disc's maneuvers, then the problem is that multi-users get punished, disincentivizing the variety that's the class's whole point. So I'm hesitant about specialization benefits.

    If the swords do have synergy bonuses, further specialization mechanisms are definitely not needed.

    If the swords grant maneuvers, the order you choose them in (if 1 per level) might be enough of an element of choice.

    As for capstone, I was thinking something to do with manifesting all the Nine Swords at once, somehow.
    An element of floating swords minionmancer could be cool, yeah.

    That said, if it works out to a choice between getting granted maneuvers from one discipline or having that sword be your minion, then FYI that's the same thing the animist class does.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-09 at 10:27 PM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Having a hard time mentally getting myself to reply to things. Going to do what I can now.

    Probably most importantly, I have now posted the first draft of the first maneuver in my intended chain of Stone Dragon maneuvers. I want some P.E.A.C.H. to get the major bugs worked out before I proceed further with it.

    Next, I have always found the idea that almost all PrCs end up being 10, 5, or sometimes 3 levels to be a sign of too limited thinking. Not that "One sword a level, plus a capstone" is a bad idea! Just that if some idea works out better, don't be afraid of it just because it gives a weird number of levels.

    Thirdly, the idea of a Swordsage being able to single-discipline is nice in theory, but it would require 7 maneuvers at 1st level in the most obvious way of doing it. I don't think that that is going to be happening for the 9, much less those plus our homebrew disciplines. Maybe some way of taking an maneuver twice, even if only 1st level ones, and even if only to say that you can up to two copies of it that can be expended and recovered separately.

    Lastly, Vlax's Rubber Chicken is not happening I don't think. The guy who invented it doesn't like me any more and he might take it amiss if I used it. The Frying Pan of Doom is from a book I read, and if that is okay, then fine. It's main power is turning those struck by it into eggs... well, that and the fact that to any but its bonded (or, in the story, Destined) wielder, it is always burning hot, even the handle.

    If neither of these work, I can come up with something else (probably just renaming the rubber chicken since its powers were never really specified, either by the creator or myself).
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-03-12 at 11:59 AM.
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