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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Should we make some more monsters in general too? Because Battlefield fey could also be interesting at mid-levels. ANd I'd like to see a few things like martial devils, martial demons, maybe a martial dragon or martial giant?
    Last edited by Eldan; 2019-03-18 at 07:08 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Should we make some more monsters in general too? Because Battlefield fey could also be interesting at mid-levels. ANd I'd like to see a few things like martial devils, martial demons, maybe a martial dragon or martial giant?
    Agreed. My idea is probably too powerful for a LA 0 race anyway. But I'll still work on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Can't open the link, but I'm guessing this is my pride and joy? Maybe we should make a usually evil equivalent though? Ivory Dragon?


    I've also been considering making the monster White Raven was based on. And maybe a martial undead template.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Possibly. Enyo dragon from Zaydos' old dragon thread?
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Making an actual White Raven is giving me a new idea for a mystical initiator. Or maybe a Spirit Shaman/Swordsage cross class, which goes to find animal spirits which embody the soul of a discipline. Because Questing for the White Raven as your spirit guide just sounds like fun.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Making an actual White Raven is giving me a new idea for a mystical initiator. Or maybe a Spirit Shaman/Swordsage cross class, which goes to find animal spirits which embody the soul of a discipline. Because Questing for the White Raven as your spirit guide just sounds like fun.
    That does sound cool and I do love theurges.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I'm not sure how it would actually work, though, other than a cool fluff idea. If anyone wants to run with this, feel free.
    I solemnly swear,
    To devote my life and abilities,
    In defence of the United Nations of Earth,
    To defend the Constitution of Man,
    And to further the universal rights of all sentient life.
    From the depths of the pacific, to the edge of the galaxy.
    For as long as I shall live.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Did you read the draft of the Animist class? That could be the fluff for their Animal God Companion, which doesn't have any fluff right now.

    White ravens are a thing though

    Re khadgar: sounds good, link?
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-18 at 11:26 AM.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Alabaster Raven? It's meant to be a magical beast with Bard and Marshall abilities and natural initiating. Really nasty in large groups.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    I would say make them either be constructs -- literal animated alabaster ravens (or at least they revert to being alabaster statues when killed) -- or have them be the offspring of a powerful white raven animal spirit after whom the discipline may have been named.

    ===

    Still chipping away at legacy weapons. The little fluff bits aren't hard to write but the assigning stats part is tedious.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-19 at 10:37 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Meh... Just going to post this before.my tablet eats it. Might edit in more actual relishes the end later or something... Ditto for fixing accidentally repeating part of then post in the middle. EDIT: Okay, I THINK I fixed the copy-pasta problem. Still might edit in more responses to quote-blocks that don't have a response yet.

    Eldan: At one point you had three posts in a row in less than 10 minutes. I know this area of the forums is less strict about the three-post rule, but please use the "edit" option in future?



    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    It's a cool idea. I excluded for 5 reasons:
    While this is probably the correct decision, I am going to present some counter-arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    1) too niche
    In this case I consider the niche nature to be what makes it desirable. Most strikes can be done with any natural or manufactured weapon. Even Tiger Claw has Rabid Bear/Wolf Strikes, which favor a two-thirds (for the same reason 2 handers are usually better), but which can still be done with even a light or natural weapon.
    But despite the iconic nature of breath weapons, there aren't very many (any?) maneuvers or stances that enhance them. Giving them a way to feel more martial seems like it would enhance the feel of the setting. "Everything is martial!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    2) breath augmentation already covered by metabreath feats
    By this logic, one could argue that the TWF maneuvers of Tiger Claw shouldn't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post

    3) I think it's a mistake to have "a discipline for everything", each one should be its own idea not just a supporter -- this is why I like your pufferfish stance (makes TC more than "the TWF disc" and underlines its fundamental theme)
    I think a maneuver or stance (and if necessary, discipline) for as many options a possible is good. What isn't necessary is that the maneuver or stance be SPECIFIC to that situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    I
    4) the color/feel of the name doesn't fit well in the overall list
    Would we need the author's permission to change the name? Even if so, should I'd we at least try to obtain it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    5) the maneuvers are fairly bland augmentations to the breath weapon, with the result that a dragon using this would actually be LESS different of an experience than one using another discipline
    Really? At high levels this may become true, but for the first several there is at least one I consider to change the tactical impact of the breath weapon noticably. Or were you, as I discuss below, more talking about the names than the mechanics?
    Spoiler: Maneuvers I consider interesting
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    1st level
    Twisting flame: Strike–make line breath attack change direction once.

    (Not quite as interesting except that it means the above can apply to dragons that naturally have a cone BW. Elemental mantra: Stance–change shape of breath attack.)

    2nd level
    Incinerate: Boost–Stronger breath at point blank range.
    Burning revenge: Counter–use breath attack on creature which just struck you. ((Might be even more a matter of taste than most of these examples.))
    Destroyer flame: Strike–Disarm or sunder with breath attack.

    3rd level
    Burning soul: Strike-use breath weapon and heal damage.

    4th level
    Covering fire: Strike– breath, and creatures that fail the save cannot make attacks of oportunity and move at half speed for 1 turn.

    5th level
    Elemental assault: Strike-use breath weapon, then teleport to any empty space on the area of effect.

    6th level
    Heaven and Hell wind: Strike–use breath weapon, heals equal amount..


    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    If it were going to be included, 5) would have to be addressed -- the easiest way being to just give them cool names that the dragon shouts out: Burning Petal Breath Technique!
    That solution is reasonable, but seems to address an extension of 4 more than the mechanical side of 5... Or are you saying that the fluff side of 5 seems much more important to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post

    Actually that would be the funny spin on it, that these are the draconic equivalent of "breath techniques".

    Oh and ofc the breath would have to change colors depending on the maneuver -- carnelian flecked with gold, etc

    For the discipline to work you'd also have to do cool new things with your breath: instead of acid, breathe a purple vapor that does x, etc
    possibly a valid point, but consider the author's response to my pointing out that this discipline does much less for non-hitpoijt-damage based breathweapons:
    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    EDIT^2: I would also throw in a sprinkling of maneuvers that increase the duration of effect, DC, and/or damage from breathweapons that deal ability damage/drain, calm, paralyze, etc.
    No. I thought of it, and quickly reached the conclusion that most breaths that don't deal damage don't really need any help. ToB schools are about damage and some nifty effects, not about spammable save-or-dies with insane DCs, wich is what most nondamage breaths amount to. A shaddow dragon inflicting 7 negative levels in area and a mist dragon daze in area are already very dangerous as it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    @DracoDei
    (On mobile so manual quote editing is a pain in the arse)

    Wyrmflesh: The tricky part will be figuring out breakpoints and values.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post

    Invoke the Dragon: I've decided to do both, actually. All attacks at double strength for damage. Or 2.5x for two handers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post

    Lashing Claw: Yeah, the thing that REALLY makes Lashing Claw different is that you can't use it on your turn. It's sort of like having a held action at all times.
    I think immediate actions usually can be used during one's own turn, so you would need the full text in the maneuver in question specifically disallowing it.

    Also, this seems a pretty minor restriction, baring spring attack and the like, since directly before or after your turn are acceptable times. Although it might be needed so it doesn't turn into a (partial?) substitute for spring attack itself. If you really want to emphasize the "separate moment of action", you could perhaps say that you can't use it after your turn until the next person (enemy?) has taken at least one action (or ends their turn?).
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Draconic Assault Stance: I actually didn't, no. I hold the Stone Dragon stances in such low regard I don't think of them. Generally speaking, upgrading a dice size is usually an average of about 2 damage.
    Well, 1 or 2 for medium without powerful build, higher mini levels(?) and/or superior unarmed strike etc, more once you start stacking stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Possible replacement granting a limited version of Powerful Build, before upgrading at a later level?
    Limited how?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Brutal Lizard Strength: The key thing with this maneuver line is the strength bonus gives an attack bonus as well, despite the fact they're actually less damaging than similar maneuvers.
    And now I feel less.than smart...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Sweeping Iron Tail: Basically this maneuver lets you hit in a line adjacent to you. So, while it gives you one target above Steel Wind, but less aiming flexibility.
    Well, I assume it can be wrapped around a corner, but yes. Although unless they are pulling off a flank, it is usually going to be the same or better I should think? Not quite sure how the tactics/geometry workout off-hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Strike of Draconic Presence: A Demoralize attempt is already a standard action, so turning it into a strike seemed like the best idea.
    It wasn't which action it should be that I was questioning exactly, it was that your phrasing weird. I offered two different ways of fixing it, depending on what your intent was. Either changing the maneuver type (appears this isn't the solution you want), or re-phrasing to alter the implied timing of initiating the manuever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Turn Aside the Flames: Replace a save with an attack roll. Simple idea, should hopefully be balanced.
    Well, about as much as replacing a specific type of save with an ability check, probably? So, yes, probably balanced!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post

    Glory of The Dragon: The fun thing is I can manipulate how the Frightful Presence works, for instance I can make it so the only condition is Shaken, and have it run off Initiator Level not hit dice. (Because the fun thing is, everyone has an initiator level!)
    Sounds good!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Shell Crushing Might: Yeah, gonna be an interesting one to balance.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    So, I'm having a bit of writer's block in regards to Wyrm's Might. So, if anyone has any ideas regarding how Martial Adepts would represent a dragon's might, notably without being overtly supernatural, I'm all ears.

    As an aside, as a replacement for Draconic Assault Stance, does this look alright for a first level stance?

    Spoiler: Wingfooted Stance
    Show


    The greatest weapon a dragon has is not its breath, its magical power or its physical might, but instead its mobility. To fight on the wing and stay out of an opponent's reach.
    While in this stance and not flat footed you may, as an Immediate Action, move up to 10 feet provoking attacks of opportunity as normal. Moving in this manner also consumes your Move action for the round, as such if you have already moved and attacked or made a full round action this turn, you cannot make use of this stance.
    Additionally, you cannot move in this manner "in response" to another's actions, but can otherwise move at any time.

    (In other words, you can move "between" an enemy's actions, but not during. For example: if an opponent moves next to you, you can use this stance to move away, but, you would have to do so before your opponent uses his Standard action. Likewise, you cannot use this stance to move out of the way of an area effect spell or ability.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    I would say make them either be constructs -- literal animated alabaster ravens (or at least they revert to being alabaster statues when killed) -- or have them be the offspring of a powerful white raven animal spirit after whom the discipline may have been named.
    I think some made a literal White Raven before? I may try to search it up.


    In other news I have in mind to make monstrous (trap door) spiders and/or giant praying mantii with my faultline maneuvers.to take advantage of its ambush aspect.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-03-19 at 01:56 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Ok, so I finally have the Wyrm's Might short list finished. Many of these don't have corresponding maneuvers, yet, but broadly speaking I know what I want them to be. So, here ya go:

    EDIT: By default, Crusaders and Warblades have access to this discipline. Warlords should probably have access to this as well. Swashbucklers probably shouldn't, as this discipline relies more on brute force rather than skill or panache.

    Spoiler
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    Key skill: Intimidate
    Preferred Weapons: Claw, Unarmed Strike, Slam, Kukri, Dagger, Short Sword

    Legacy Weapon: Claws of the Dragon (A pair of gauntlets that grants the wearer a pair of claw attacks.)

    1st:
    Wyrmflesh: Stance - Gain a natural armour bonus that scales with Intimidate
    Invoke the Dragon: Boost - All melee attacks this round use twice your strength modifier for damage.
    Lashing Claw: Strike - Make an attack with a light weapon as an immediate action, but deals less damage.
    Wingfooted Stance: Stance - If you have not used your Move action this round, move 10ft as an Immediate action.

    2nd:
    Brutal Lizard Strength: Strike - Make a full attack as if your strength score were 6 points higher.
    Sweeping Iron Tail: Strike - Attack three squares simultaneously.
    Strike of the Scaled One's Terror: Strike - After a successful melee attack, can demoralize as a free action, adding damage dealt to the intimidate check.
    Juvenile Scale Defence: Counter - Reduce incoming damage by 10 points.

    3rd:
    Turn Aside the Flames: Counter - Make a melee attack in place of a saving throw against energy damage or breath weapons.
    Glory of the Dragon: Stance - Gain Frightful Presence
    Shell Crushing Might: Strike - Melee attack deals +2d6 damage can temporarily reduce target's damage reduction.

    4th:
    Beseech the Dragon: Boost - All melee attacks made this round add triple your strength modifier to damage.
    Attack On The Wing: Boost - After a successful melee attack, move up to 10 feet.

    5th:
    Hulking Lizard Strength: Strike - Make a full attack as if your strength score were 12 points higher
    Adult Scale Defence: Counter - Reduce incoming damage by 20 points.
    Broodslaying Style: Stance - Cannot be flanked, gain a stacking +2 bonus when surrounded.
    Roar Of The Scaled Sovereign: Other - Enemies that fail a will save move away from you.

    6th:
    Scale Shedding Rejuvenation: Other - Take a penalty to AC to heal hit points and remove several status effects.
    Draconic Spell Rejection: Counter - Can make an Intimidate check to resist some spells.

    7th:
    Launching Claw Strike: Strike - Attack launches enemy up to 60 feet. Deals 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet.
    Flying Dragon Assault: Strike - Charge, making a full attack at any point.

    8th:
    Tyrannical Lizard Strength: Strike - Make a full attack as if your strength score were 24 points higher.
    Wyrm Scale Defence: Reduce incoming damage by 50 points.
    Embrace The Dragon Spirit: Stance - Gain the Dragon type, powerful build and two secondary slam attacks.

    9th:
    Multi-Headed Chromatic Onslaught: Strike - Make five attacks at your highest base attack bonus all with +5d6 damage.



    Things to note:

    Draconic Spell Rejection: Basically, this maneuver grants you a one-shot spell resistance by making an Intimidate check.

    Embrace the Dragon Spirit: Gaining the Dragon type is mostly a flavour thing, as at best it grants darkvision and a couple of immunities to some uncommon effects. Also, it grants Slams because that's the closest thing a non-winged humanoid gets to a wing attack.

    As an aside, personally, I think Embrace The Dragon Spirit and and Stance of Dragon's Blood (The Draconic Partisan capstone) should be able to be used simultaneously, just as a neat flavour thing.



    As always, questions and what have you. When I get the full thing sorted, I'll post the full discipline in it's own thread.


    EDIT EDIT: As an aside, the flavor of this discipline is that it's practitioners channel something called "The dragon spirit". They believe that, much like dragon shamans or dragonfire adepts, any being can tap into the essence of what it means to be a dragon, only they channel that essence into martial prowess, rather than supernatural powers.

    I swear that I went with this flavour before I ever looked over your Animist, Elves. So, uh, yeah.

    EDIT EDIT EDIT:

    And here it is in all its ugly, unflavoured, draconic glory.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2019-03-20 at 10:42 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Have made several edits over the days to the "Faultline" series, and today I much simplified the second maneuver in the original series by making it refer to the first rather than repeating stuff that didn't vary between the two.

    Much more importantly, I added the first of a SECOND series of maneuvers, which are AoE based. Look for it in the first post BETWEEN the first two maneuvers, or in post #7.

    I'm interested if I made the options for the Area clear enough (they only get worse from here as I add more options).

    I've been working behind the scenes (some more behind the scenes than others) to get both series plotted out, but I want to be sure that the basics are good before I continue the chains. I am especially worried about the damage progressions, and, as I said, the area options and restrictions.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that I also reduced the pre-requisites of the Faultline series, and saw how much Stone Dragon is seen as discipline with only a few useful maneuvers. This is especially true for Swordsages until one gets access to 2nd level maneuvers. This, combined with the fact that very low level warblades and crusaders usually end up preparing ALL their maneuvers known means that taking anything niche purpose is very problematic, especially for a Crusader who will often find the maneuver eating into his maneuvers granted when it isn't needed (IE any time it becomes available in actual combat).
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-03-22 at 07:09 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Right so, Wyrm's Might is as done as its going to be without actually playtesting it. Its legacy weapon isn't done yet, but that's coming soon.

    Secondly, @Elves, because the Animist class is yours, feel free to do whatever you deem necessary for Wyrm's Might's animist spirit, as you'd know better than I would as to how the discipline fits in with that class.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2019-03-23 at 05:42 PM.
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Will look it over, I haven't been on the board.

    Fluffwise, the only thing is, since your main goal for the disc was to make it nonmagical, isn't that undercut a bit by having the source be a spirit? Seems like it might be more badass for it to be just mortal warriors imitating dragons.

    --

    Haven't done any new AOW stuff but I did take a look at the Book of Five Rings which was the source material for the original TOB. It's funny because TOB is all the fancy ornamental stuff that the real book decries. Have to think of a way to reconcile that so that it doesn't seem too garish.

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    The thing is, it is just mortal warriors imitating dragons. In the fluff intro, "the dragon spirit" is actually just what the discipline's inventors called ki, which is the "power source" for all martial maneuvers, before they really understood what they had created.

    Basically, Wyrm's Might didn't actually exist as a discipline until after the Temple's fall and the knowledge of the Sublime Way became more widespread. Before that, the inventors believed that they were tapping into the essence of what it means to be a dragon. Calling it "the dragon spirit" stuck around simply because it sounded fancy.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2019-03-23 at 07:03 PM.
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Super quick, ACFs for core classes. Main question: should they have maneuvers readied or should it be just as if learned through Martial Study?

    Spoiler
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    Alternate Class Feature (Swordsage): Akashic Timesage
    You may trade one of your starting disciplines for Akasha’s Timepiece. Normally it’s only available to machinists. You refer to it as a discipline, not a college.

    Core Class ACFs

    These ACFs give core classes limited access to martial maneuvers.

    These maneuvers behave as if known through the Martial Study feat (but do not count against the number of times you can take Martial Study).

    These ACFs don’t grant stances.

    By default, we assume levels in sublime class variants still count for only 1/2 initiator level. However, the DM has our total sanction to rule that they count for full.

    Maneuver progression
    Barbarians and fighters gain their maneuvers at odd levels. Rangers and rogues gain their maneuvers at even levels. Monks and paladins gain two disciplines, receiving maneuvers from one at even levels and maneuvers from the other at odds.

    EVEN PROGRESSION
    You gain 1 maneuver at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th.

    ODD PROGRESSION
    You gain 1 maneuver at 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th.


    All Sublime Way class variants gain the associated skills of their discipline(s) as class skills.


    Alternate Class Feature (Barbarian): Sublime Barbarian
    Odd progression. You gain a discipline that depends on your totem animal:

    Ape Totem: White Raven (you call it “Social Ape”)
    Bear Totem: Stone Dragon (you call it “Grounded Bear”)
    Boar Totem: Scarlet Bravura (you call it “Reckless Boar”)
    Cat/Jaguar Totem (ie default): Tiger Claw
    Dragon Totem: Wyrm’s Might
    Eagle Totem: Diamond Mind (You call it “Alert Hunter”)
    Horse Totem: Twin Spirit
    Lion Totem: Doesn’t exist, use Spirit Lion Totem (cat totem covers all of panthera)
    Serpent Totem: Chthonic Serpent
    Wolf Totem: Chthonic Serpent (you call it “Wolf Fells Prey”)

    Spirit Lion Totem: none, buster

    Alternate Class Feature (Fighter): Sublime Fighter
    You gain Iron Heart, using the odd progression.

    Alternate Class Feature (Monk): Sublime Monk
    You gain both Diamond Mind and Setting Sun. Of your two disciplines, choose which will occupy the even progression and which will occupy the odd progression.

    You lose slow fall. Instead you take half damage from falling, up to the same maximum of 20d6.

    Alternate Class Feature (Paladin): Sublime Paladin
    You gain Devoted Spirit (even progression). You also gain a planar discipline (odd progression). This planar discipline corresponds to your alignment: paladins of righteousness gain Golden Saint, paladins of freedom gain Kaleidoscopic Dream, paladins of tyranny gain Ninefold Damnation, and paladins of slaughter gain Infinite Torment. If you fall, you retain access to your Devoted Spirit maneuvers but lose access to your planar discipline maneuvers.

    A former paladin of righteousness or freedom who trades paladin levels for levels in blackguard may trade their planar discipline maneuvers for Infinite Torment (if now CE), Ninefold Damnation (if now LE), or Stygian Nightmare (if now NE) maneuvers of equivalent or lesser level.

    In exchange for their maneuver progression, however, Sublime Way paladins suffer two serious consequences. First, the damage bonus for your Smite Evil is +1d6 per paladin level, not +1. Second, you are able to summon your divine steed at will, with no time limit. The normal penalties and waiting period apply if it dies.

    Alternate Class Feature (Ranger): Sublime Ranger
    When you make your combat style choice, you gain a discipline, using the even progression. Dual wielders gain Tiger Claw. Archers gain Falling Star.

    In exchange, however, you must receive your animal companion at 1st level instead of 4th, and it progresses like a druid’s.

    Alternate Class Feature (Rogue): Sublime Rogue
    You gain Shadow Hand, using the even progression.

    You gain [a lvl 20 capstone].
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-10-03 at 04:12 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Aside from the fact I have no clue what these classes are losing in exchange for access to these maneuvers (Paladin and Ranger get upgrades even!), they all look pretty good. Choices all appear to make sense.
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    Calling them ACF's when they are straight power-ups (unless I am missing something?) seems misleading. Note I'm not saying that they NEED to lose anything(we are powering up the Martial Adepts as well, and full-featured are... not in need of a boost except maybe at very low level.), just that the naming is confusing.

    As for if they should get a recovery method... eh, at least give them the Swordsage's original recovery method. That should at least give consistent rules for Mountain Hammer outside of combat... or is it only Crusaders where that is confusing in the first place?

    In any case at least give them that. Makes the setting feel more "martially", although I guess it might be more complexity. I am not a good guy to talk to about if things are too complicated* or not. I guess the obvious question is "What would best balance between adept and non-adept, non-full-caster classes?" I know that is the right question, but I don't know the answer. BUT, as is often the case, framing the question is very helpful I think**.
    *The Mythos system had a thread subtitled "Where Simplicity Goes To Die"... I still wrote the most complex Mythos class to exist according to Lanth Sor.
    **I have heard that "Questions are more important than answers", and on a related note that seems to contradict.this philosophy, but actual supports it "He is a fool who can not ask, more than ten wise men can answer."(Piet Hien ?)... Which to me speaks to the breadth of human of not only God's creation, but also human knowledge.

    EDIT: What does Wolf totem grant (EDIT^2:before our changes) again? Seems like wolf->tripping->Setting Sun or wolf->pack lead by strongest->White Raven would be the more intuitive logic.

    Also, it seems to me that my Faultline and Quake maneuver series may be more useful to NPCs than PCs and that could be a bad thing given how deadly they can be when properly applied. Or does that threat just make the players think more, which I see as.good?
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-03-26 at 04:57 AM.
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Since these are meant as powerups, I thought it was better to be straightforward about that than to require a token removal of some ability.

    Re your maneuver series, I wouldn't overthink it. Instagib is a choice on the DM's part.

    Wolf Totem gives Improved Trip.

    --

    I don't want to overload people with legacy weapons so here's the writing portion for just two. One long story-type one, one short and storyless.

    Spoiler: Blood Promise and Possibility
    Show
    Scarlet Bravura

    Legend has it that the Temple of Nine Swords was almost the Temple of Ten Swords. While all other disciplines had one master to represent them at the Temple, Reshar chose two to represent White Raven, perhaps symbolizing its reliance on unity in battle. The two masters were a pair of master warlords: Lord Vyrist, a knight renowned throughout the world as the White Tower, and the equally legendary Scarlet Bravado, Commander Gurran. However, the two had very different views of their discipline, and on the nature of leadership. Vyrist believed that White Raven should embody the principles of command and authority, using allies as tools to achieve a goal. Gurran, however, believed that a commander must sacrifice himself for the sake of those serving him, and that this is what White Raven must be. The two masters eventually grew cold to each other. Finally, in a fit of anger, Lord Vyrist lashed out at Gurran over an argument, thirsting for his blood. Though the fight was ended by Reshar’s mediation, Commander Gurran could no longer stay. He left the Temple, and codified what he alone knew of the White Raven style into a new discipline that he called Scarlet Bravura after his nickname. His techniques were forever lost to the White Raven adepts of the Temple, only learned by the elite cadre of disciples the Commander acquired in his post-Temple career. The Scarlet Bravura discipline's associated skill is Perform (Oratory), relying on inspiring speeches and comforting words as you lead from the front. The associated weapons of the Scarlet Bravura discipline are the bastard sword, greatsword, lance, rapier, and spiked shield.


    Blood Promise, Sword of the Scarlet General

    Appearance: a longsword that is entirely crimson red except for the wire that’s been wrapped around its handle for grippage.

    Omen: It’s a red sword made of no normal material.

    Reshar never forgot Gurran’s mistreatment. He had never wanted him to leave, even after the quarrel, and regretted that his expertise was never circulated as widely as it should have been. Even afterward he kept sporadic contact with Gurran, though never face to face, since the Commander’s path now took him to lead wars in distant places, shores even Reshar had never tread. They only lost contact when Reshar first vanished, gone sword-searching.

    As he tracked down the swords that would become so linked to his name, the Master always meant to find a sword that embodied Gurran’s teachings as well, for these seemed more valid to him every year -- though they had found little popular traction, and the Scarlet Bravado himself had, after decades of self-imposed exile abroad, been largely forgotten.

    Eventually, Reshar found all of the Nine, yet a sword for Scarlet Bravura still eluded him. While the call he felt wasn’t death, he could tell he would soon have to leave earth, and with his strength pulling him elsewhere, his ability to care about this task was gone. He weighed the promise he had made to himself. (DC 20; When Energy Is Gone)

    He wanted to complete the task he had set: that much was vanity. But he couldn’t leave until his tenth disciple was done some justice. Reshar tracked Gurran down in a distant nation. Both were now old men, but while Reshar’s silver hair and lined face matched his student, his body was seemingly more vital than when he was young. The same could not be said of Gurran, who though younger had been forced to give up martial practice by age. The two embraced, and shared the many stories and thoughts they had never been able to fit into their letters. Reshar spoke of his search for the Nine Swords, and admitted that he’d failed to find one for Gurran. Gurran laughed and pointed out that it was years since he’d last used a sword in combat, anyway.

    When dusk had sunk around them, Reshar asked Gurran to become blood brothers, in the old way. While the gesture seemed a bit strained for two men so near the end of life, Gurran was touched. With a knife, each prepared to make a small cut in the other’s arm; the cuts would then be pressed together, the blood intermixed. But Gurran’s hand, trembling with infirmity, spasmed and cut a great gash across Reshar’s forearm.

    Gurran was horrified, and gushed a thousand apologies, yet Reshar only looked at him, eyes locked in a serene, unearthly gaze. The blood poured out of his arm in streams. As it hit the floor it formed a pool shaped like a sword. The pool of blood became a sword that was rich red from tip to pommel. (DC 25; Reconciliation)

    Reshar presented the sword to his former student thus: “This blade is my blood promise to you that your teachings won’t be forgotten.” He told Gurran to give the sword to his best disciple and send them to the Temple of Nine Swords, where they would become the tenth master it was always meant to have. Then he left.

    Gurran did as Reshar asked. While none of his students were eager to leave everything behind, travel to a faraway land and take up a post where they would never have the chance to lead an army, it was clear a sacrifice was needed. One named Ialdobus volunteered. Entrusted with the sword, he began his journey to the Temple by boarding a ship.

    Unfortunately, he had chosen to travel with a merchant convoy, since there weren’t enough travelers between the two lands to justify passenger ships. The richly loaded convoy attracted pirates, a whole fleet of them. Surrounded, the merchants begged Ialdobus to lead them, promising him huge payment, for they knew he had led armies in war before. They were all in the same boat(s); what could he do but accept?

    Ialdobus spurred the merchant ships into action, jettisoning heavy cargo as they sped straight toward one of the pirate ships -- for only by ganging up on the enemy ships individually could the outnumbered merchants hope for victory. It was all in the geometry of ship movement. As the battle neared its end, it became clear that one ship would have to play a sacrificial role, cutting off a trio of pirate ships so that the rest could be finished off. The ship best placed to fill this role was the one Ialdobus was on. Any other ship, and the risk of losing would increase.

    Some would call it selfish for him to risk his life like that when he had promised to make it to the Temple. And yet, in that moment, clarity descended on him. Reaching the Temple might make a difference, or it might not. What mattered was that these people had entrusted him with leadership. He couldn’t betray that trust just because it gave him better prospects. He committed to the strategy. They won, and he died.

    The merchant captain confiscated Blood Promise from the pirates who had boarded Ialdobus’s ship and killed him. He swore he would return it to Gurran’s school after the return voyage. But promises are tricky things, and for one reason or another, that never happened.

    The sword that came from Reshar’s blood is now remembered only by students of Scarlet Bravura. It represents failed promises but also fulfilled duties. (DC 31; What Circumstance Throws In The Way)


    Coin’s Edge

    The Coin’s Edge discipline is a rare form of martial arts, one never taught at the Temple of Nine Swords. The discipline was singlehandedly created by a single swordsman, a legendary master known as Uther Doul. Doul had studied probability magic, a mystic practice that lets its users alter the flow of probability and chance. He was able to create what he called probability meditations, mantras a warrior could use to similarly bend probability without having to have any mastery of magic. Doul used his probability meditations to great effect. He was able to call up possible strikes, extremely accurate or damaging attacks that could have been, and bring them into reality, and to do the reverse – force foes to use only the weakest of attacks. He eventually developed a codified martial discipline, which he called Coin’s Edge, relying on both these probability meditations and on a natural sense of chance, the gambler’s intuition that is key to Coin’s Edge maneuvers. The Coin’s Edge discipline’s associated skill is Profession (Gambler), as the ability to manipulate the odds to one’s advantage is essential to the discipline. The associated weapons of the Coin’s Edge discipline are the dagger, falchion, longsword, rapier, scimitar, and two-bladed sword.

    Possibility, the Original Luckblade

    A shortsword with bold but not gaudy lines of gold inlay.

    Omen: When you hold it you see waves of probability everywhere.

    People take Possibility and then trash it as soon as they get their wish. It’s more of a fling than a thing. (DC 15)

    But only someone who has a shallow mastery of luck will stop when Possibility spends its more outlandish potential. Students of Coin’s Edge know that drastic, dramatic lottery wins aren’t everything. A consistent series of small pushes in the right direction can you take you somewhere almost as incredible. (DC 20; Ripple Effect)

    And if you press on, navigating the latticework of all potential with the help of Coin’s Edge and your luckblade, you will inevitably become a student of the non-deterministic chaos that underlies reality. Determinism is fixed, but chaos has room left for control. (DC 25; Chaos Tamer)

    And ultimately, delving through the branching reams of the possible, you will understand how truly self-centered and futile the fixation on wishes, miracles, and lucky strikes is. Instead, at this stage you delight in manifesting all possibilities at once, like a probability curve brought to life, or a multiversal Aleph. (DC 31; The Mechanism Of All Results)


    Here are the weapons that still need doing (if you want to - hint, hint - volunteer)

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Army of One - One Man Stand, tower shield
    Bloodstained Gutter - Famous Prison Shiv (lesser legacy only)
    Dancing Leaf - Eldan claimed
    Event Horizon -
    Falling Anvil - Frying Pan of Doom, possibly Rubber Chicken?
    Falling Star - Bow or crossbow with sniper theme
    Fool’s Grip - The Universal Weapon
    Phoenix Feather - Magic longbow modeled after hank's bow
    [Volley Archery Discipline] -
    Witch Razor -

    —Planar Disciplines—

    Infinite Torment - “Flamescourge" or something dramatic like that* (Pair O'Dice possibly doing)
    Kaleidoscopic Dream -
    Ninefold Damnation - cornugon spiked chain, barbezu glaive, or a flamberge (Pair O'Dice possibly doing)
    Stygian Nightmare - a scythe
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-03-26 at 11:16 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    I think blood blade has hidden ritual were holder needs to complete the last request and return the blade to temple
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Hidden rituals that can be done at any point, good idea. For some weapons I've also added a "culmination" entry about how their legacy can end or be used up.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    So, here's the nonlegacy stats and story for the Claws of The Dragon. Wyrm's Might's weapon:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Claws of The Dragon are a pair of dragonhide gauntlets. The type of dragonhide they are made from is impossible to determine.

    Nonlegacy Game Statistics: +1 Dragonhide Gauntlets; cost 4,604
    Omen: While worn, the gauntlets shift in colouration once per minute, as though it were made from different types of dragonhide. If the wearer is good, it shifts through the metallic colours, whereas if you are evil it shifts through the chromatic ones and if you are neutral it shifts through all of them. A DC 11 will save reveals this to be an illusionary effect.
    When not worn, the gauntlets' true colouration is indetermenate.


    History

    According to draconic legend, Io did not have two children, but three. While Bahamut and Tiamat survived to this day, there was a third child, Toovir (Draconic for Adventurer), who died long ago. Toovir was, by no means, weak, but it had no understanding of mortals. The legend goes that Toovir's first encounter was with a tribe of Elves who, having never seen a dragon before, slew Toovir believing it to be a threat. (DC 15)
    No part of Toovir went to waste. Its meat fed the tribe for weeks, its blood was found to be a potent magical reagent, but it was its hide that proved the most useful. Armour, shields and more were made from from the remains of Io's third child. Amongst those pieces formed in the ancient days were the gauntlets that would one day become the Claws of The Dragon. (DC 18; Wasting Not The Slain)
    Historically, the oldest confirmed sighting of these gauntlets was in the possession of the Half-green dragon, elf warlord Marthyn. He believed that humans were an inferior race, fit only to be conquered. Gathering a cadre of his fellow elves, he wisely decided that he would start small and conquer a nearby human town first, to see what humans were capable of. Before his small army ever reached the gates, they were accosted by a single human female warrior on the road who, in perfect elvish, provoked Marthyn into a one-on-one duel. Marthyn was subsequently slain, his army dispersed and the warrior claimed Marthyn's equipment as a prize. Among them, his gauntlets. Green dragonhide when he lived, but upon his death changing into a strange, brown-grey colour. (DC 25; A Warrior Alone)
    This human was called Aryth and upon touching the gauntlets knew that they were of a strange origin. Though she was not a follower of Bahamut, Aryth knew that a small shrine could be found less than a day away. Thinking she might find a cleric of the platinum dragon there, she traveled to the shrine and found it empty, but welcoming. Wondering what she should do, Aryth felt a strange sensation that told her to place the gauntlets onto the altar. After doing so, she found a comfortable spot and fell into a calm, meditative trance. In her dreamlike state, Aryth came face to face with Bahamut himself, seemingly mournful. After thanking her, Bahamut asked of Aryth the strangest request: That she visit a shrine to Tiamat and lay the gauntlets there. Bahamut told her where one might be found and Aryth agreed to do as Bahamut asked. It took her a week to find the secluded, and similarly empty, shrine and though it unnerved her to be in this place, Aryth nevertheless placed the gauntlets down and one again slipped into a trance. This time, however, there were two beings. Bahamut and another, five-headed dragon. Tiamat. The two spoke no words, reconciliation was impossible. Instead, they shared a few moments of mourning, once more reunited with their lost sibling. Turning to Aryth, Tiamat gave the human a genuine, heartfelt "Thank you" before the two figures departed. (DC 31; Three Children Reuinited)

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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    A WIP to show what I have in mind for the White Raven inspiration. Thoughts and advice?? It's been a while since I made a new monster. An adventuring party of these would be quite nasty.


    Alabaster Raven
    Tiny Magical Beast
    Hit Dice:
    Initiative:
    Speed: 20 ft, Fly 40 ft (Average)
    Armour Class:
    BAB/Grapple:
    Attack:
    Full Attack:
    Space/Reach: 2 1/2 ft/0 ft
    Special Attacks: Manuevers, Swarming Strike
    Special Qualities: Bardic Music, Low Light Vision, Marshall Auras, Manuever Resonance
    Saves:
    Abilities: Str 3, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 8, Cha 16
    Skills:
    Feats: Weapon Finesse
    Environment: Temperature and Cold Hills and Forrests
    Organisation: Individual, Pair or Kindness (Flock of 3 to 300)
    Challenge Rating: ?
    Alignment: Usually Any Lawful
    Advancement: As character class
    Level Adjustment: ?

    You see a flock of snow white birds with sharp claws and beaks.


    Alabaster Ravens are the mortal descendants of an avian spirit of cooperation whom the White Raven discipline was based upon. They are typically extroverted, energetic, collectivist, creative and aggressive. They have mercurial moods and are quick to make both friends and enemies, while slow to forgive or betray. For them, first impressions count.

    They may choose Bard, Crusader or Marshall as their Favoured Class and typically worship gods with the Air, Community, Law, Protection, Sky, Travel and War domains.

    They have a +2 racial bonus on Aid Another, Diplomacy and Perform checks.

    Martial Resonance: Their claws count as favoured weapons for the White Raven discipline and they have an Initiator level equal to their Hit Dice.

    Bardic Music: They can perform Bardic Music as a Bard of 1/2 their Hit Dice.

    Marshall Auras: They begin play with one Major and one Minor Marshall Aura. They gain an additional Minor Aura every 4 Hit Dice and an additional Major Aura every 5 Hit Dice.

    Swarming Strike: Anyone taking damage from an Alabaster Raven who has taken damage from a different Alabaster Raven in the same round must make a DC 27 fortitude save or be nauseated as if affected by a swarm's distraction attack. Afterwards, they become immune to that particular alabaster raven's Swarming Strike for one round. The save DC is dexterity based.

    Maneuvers: Alabaster Ravens know Bolstering Voice and Leading the Attack. They gain a new White Raven Maneuver known every 2 hit Dice and a new White Raven stance known every 5 Hit Dice.

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    @ Sereg: added

    @ Sarge: I get the point of the story is he doesn't defend himself/is unprepared, but still seems a bit odd for a dragon god to get killed by randos. Maybe up the threat level, or have the third dragon god be a child/baby, the tiny spark of Io's "innocence" or whatever?

    Though that increases the thematic issue of the "fight like a dragon" weapon coming from a dragon who didn't fight...which does seem a little odd.

    ---

    Random idea:
    What if we included the psychic disciplines by saying the "secret" behind Reshar's rapid mastery of the nine disciplines was in fact Psychic Reformation?

    Does it cheapen it too much? But it's kind of cute since that's the lynchpin of some MO9 builds and TOB was originally going to be psionic IIRC.

    He could even have an evil nemesis who did the same thing but with Dark Chaos Shuffle..

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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    @ Sereg: added

    @ Sarge: I get the point of the story is he doesn't defend himself/is unprepared, but still seems a bit odd for a dragon god to get killed by randos. Maybe up the threat level, or have the third dragon god be a child/baby, the tiny spark of Io's "innocence" or whatever?

    Though that increases the thematic issue of the "fight like a dragon" weapon coming from a dragon who didn't fight...which does seem a little odd.

    ---

    Random idea:
    What if we included the psychic disciplines by saying the "secret" behind Reshar's rapid mastery of the nine disciplines was in fact Psychic Reformation?

    Does it cheapen it too much? But it's kind of cute since that's the lynchpin of some MO9 builds and TOB was originally going to be psionic IIRC.

    He could even have an evil nemesis who did the same thing but with Dark Chaos Shuffle..
    Not that much since regular magic still becomes the bastad child of tome of battle with no support to magic ass kicker besides few prcs with high qualification requirements
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Okay, there's a pretty big problem with the setup as it is currently: There's too much content being planned and discussed for one sourcebook by quite a long ways. Remember, the original went over just nine Disciplines and rather rudimentary setting information and yet turned out to be a hundred and fifty eight pages, with over two hundred Maneuvers and yet we complain about not having enough of them while planning for fourty Disciplines that are larger. I'd say we should focus on hammering out what we want from the initial Age of Warriors "sourcebook" that's an introduction to the Age of Warriors, then subdivide portions of the project into other "sourcebooks" for the setting. The initial one doesn't need to cover everything, but rather set up trends for later development.

    Spoiler: Some general thoughts for the topics to cover with the initial "sourcebook" to bear the Age of Warriors title alone:
    Show
    1. Should have one subsystem fully theurged with Discipline, feats and so on, maybe one added theurge PRC but not a Discipline, with one or two more given the partial feat-based integration Psionics has with Incarnum and Initiation. I'd go with Incarnum getting this full integration for the lack of resource conflicts, as well as bringing Soulborn to competence, while Psionics and spellcasting would get a bit more feat-based integration than is present in the Book of Nine Swords. This could hold for further "sourcebooks", covering a setting topic and a subsystem to integrate with each one.

    2. Have a good amount of book space dedicated to generic Martial support and include Maneuvers that synergize well with this, getting the Fighter to compete with Initiators by being "wide" with these basic functions and a "dabbler" PRC designed specifically for entering Initiation through Martial Study rather than level dips. Rather than just finish replacing the prior classes outright, give some of them a path to "boring" competence that'll let them be on par with Initiation without high optimization. May result in optimized Fighter coming dangerously close to the t2 barrier, but this is fine.

    3. Have new base classes cover party roles to make the all-Initiator party fully functional, if complicated to DM mechanical challenges for. This means including proper condition coverage in Disciplines, as well as "party face" effects, which could be split between a few new Maneuvers for White Raven, Divine Spirit and things to include in the Poet's loadout with reworks of the music-based Disciplines to be included. Additionally, a proper Initiator Rogue, rather than the Monk-plus of the Swordsage, could take up the skillmonkey slot to fully cover that party role.

    4. Setting information should cover the general way the major, institutional power sources are present in the setting, to set the competence expectations and the general social structure between the newly-prominent Initiation and the older spellcasting institutions, including the Magic of Incarnum subsystem interactions to offer some inter-subsystem support options. Incarnum's integration would include covering its niche role in society, as the setting focuses on Initiation becoming the social mover, so other subsystems should be mentioned primarily in how they interact.


    Apologies for the mild project-hijacking (mostly, I just want this thing organized and not a bloated undifferentiated mass. Feel free to come up with another organizational scheme, as long as there is an organizational scheme to break this project into a number of different "sourcebooks" that focus information so it's easy to find the stuff you want), but I've been spoiled by the way people tend to do stuff like this over on Minmax Boards (which I'll readily admit isn't nearly as ordered as what I'm suggesting) and rather dislike the idea of an utterly unsorted campaign setting/subsystem inflation PDF covering dozens of Disciplines, half a dozen Base Classes, who knows how many PRCs and an unknown amount of setting information. If we're going to make a setting out of this, I'd prefer we sort it out so people have one well-labeled place to go for any particular setting topic, campaign element or subsystem they want to dig into and find what they need to play around with that topic, campaign element or subsystem, while the primary sourcebook covers just the general layout of the setting so that DM's can take just that and make campaigns in it.

    Spoiler: For the wider project, I have more thoughts:
    Show
    1. Each "sourcebook" should cover one setting topic, whether campaign-focused like Intrigue or worldbuilding like the Outer Planes, and one subsystem being properly theurged, with two styles of inter-system Discipline, transparency Feats and such, with the setting topic being what the new Disciplines focus on interacting with. Tight design focus should only be confined to the showpieces of the Theurged subsystem and the new Disciplines, with tangential shenanigans being left to flow (or confined to an "index" page of accepted-but-unsorted material. If Psionics and Intrigue are put in the same sourcebook, don't be afraid to agree on sticking barely-related Maneuvers for seemingly-random Disciplines. If we're going to be making Initiation into a subsystem to rival spellcasting, we might as well include our own spell bloat of weird, niche and seemingly pointless Maneuvers to let optimizers and roleplayers have fun with.

    2. When a subsystem is covered and needs fixed, do with with variant rules like Spell Recharge and AFCs like the Monk Fighting Styles or Totem Barbarian rather than an overhaul of the system or directly replacing the class. If we want a sourcebook appearance, we need to respect the fact that Wizards never issued genuine class revisions. You'll need to confine new list-widgets (Mysteries, Soulmelds, etc.) to the subsystem's existing method for compatibility, so Shadowcasting would still need to stick to Paths and Truenaming would remain tied to Lexicons, but learning mechanic terminology needs to stay the same to have new list-widgets usable by the original class. We could also have just-for-fun variant rules and AFCs like this for subsystems that don't need fixed, but could be nice to run campaigns with switchups.

    3. Theurge Disciplines should come in two general varieties: Direct transparency, where they call in learning mechanics, resources, restrictions or other properties of the other subsystem, and synergy Disciplines that offer simultaneous use, whether explicitly or through action economy, and/or important additional effects. Each Theurge process should ideally have one Discipline that's directly transparent and one Discipline that's synergistic, using the subsets I've described for variety. As an example, Arcane's transparency Discipline could use the Maneuver as the somatic component, requiring Still Spell to use without Initiation and having both Maneuver levels and Spell levels, being balanced as towards the upper end of the Stilled Spell's level. The Maneuver, however, could be used without the spell slot, losing it's Arcane effects. Meanwhile, the synergy Discipline could be about positioning with Thrown weapons, maintaining distance from enemies by both moving the user and interrupting their movement. And messing with other Spellcasters with the extended Opportunity Attack range, of course.

    4. Make use of two non-standard Maneuver types: Katas, where a full-round Maneuver is broken down into its component Actions as separate things it allows you to do, giving some vital list-efficient utility to compete with spellcasting while adding a bit more opportunity cost to the system (if your Shadow Hand character relies on a high-level Kata for move-action teleports and their high-DC Strength drain, they have to either use them at the same time or refresh the Maneuver before getting to use both), and Rushes, for the Move Action slot. The immediate example for Rushes is the Shadow Hand teleportation Maneuvers (also pointing out that Maneuver categorization shouldn't be strictly tied to actions, with errata for the "other" categorized Maneuvers to reflect this), while Katas would take up position-setting-attack-plus-rider routines like the infinite-retreat half-ogre Spiked Chain user, Shadow Pounces, ubercharging and so on.
    Spoiler: To give an off-the-top-of-my-head example of Katas (apologies for clunky wording and lacking fluffery):
    Show
    Shadows Seeking Slaughter
    Shadow Hand (Kata)
    Level: Swordsage 9
    Prerequisite: 3 Shadow Hand Maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 Round (divided)
    Range: 50 ft./Melee Attack
    Target: You/One Enemy Creature
    Saving Throw: Reflex/Fortitude Partial

    As part of this Maneuver, you first make a Move action, vanishing into shadows that flow toward your desired location with incredible speed, crossing up to 50 ft. in what seems a single moment. If enemies who's Threatened Area contains pass a Reflex save (DC 19 + your Wisdom modifier), they may make a single Attack of Opportunity against you for this movement, but you gain the benefits of Partial Concealment against this attack. Secondly, as an Immediate Action taken before the opponent would make their Opportunity Attack, the shadows twist, a blade lashing out towards the opponent's eyes (or other sensory organ), dealing 3d6 damage on a successful Attack Roll. If they fail a Fortitude Save (DC 19 + your Wisdom modifier), the attack leaves them Blinded until the beginning of their next turn. Finally, as a Standard Action, you make a Melee Attack that deals an extra 5d6 damage and 6 Constitution damage, halved with a successful Fortitude save (DC 19 + your Wisdom modifier).

    As with any Kata, the actions can be taken in any order or combination, expending the Maneuver at the end of the round even if some are not taken. If the actions are taken in the order described in the same round and the Immediate Action and Standard Action share a target (decided when the Maneuver is Initiated), the Move Action leaves the enemy target Flatfooted until their next turn if they fail the Reflex save against it, the Immediate Action becomes a Melee Attack and deals 2 Constitution damage on a failed save and the Standard Action deals an extra 4 Constitution damage.

    ---

    So it's essentially Shadow Stride with a Reflex save to permit Opportunity Attacks at the destination, an upgraded Obscuring Shadow Veil and an upgraded Bloodletting Strike. In total the Kata is two Melee Attacks, 8d6 damage, the target becomes Flatfooted and Blinded until their next round and there's 12 Constitution damage, meaning 6 HP per HD (provided they use Con for HP). Not quite a save-or-die, but very, very close to it. For three saves, two Attack roles and devoting the entire round to it, I think this is acceptable, if not underpowered, and the fact that learning it lets you take the actions separately means you get a better Obscuring Shadow Veil as a Counter. If you'd rather use the attack first, then the movement to get away and the Counter to hit whatever enemy's the most troublesome at your new location, you can do that instead for some Con damage on whoever you were at to begin with, repositioning to a different enemy-rich location and blinding one of them.

    Another note: Katas can't be recovered until the next round, no matter what you do, because they only get expended at the end of the current one, regardless of how they're used. Little detail in the wording to keep action shenanigans from letting you exploit single-Maneuver recovery for massive action bombs with a decent pack of effects to use it with.
    My most liked class, thematically, is the Artificer. Make free items! (fail by RAW to)Hold up the setting! Have access to every magic item...
    My most liked class, mechanically, is the Bard. I sing the enemy to death! (at level 21)I talk you into a suicidal fanatic! I need to cheese rules that make me sing as I fight or talk to get things done...

    I prefer t2 over anything else, because t2 lets you become anything. I think Psionics is more versatile than magic.

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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    Y'know, I agree with Morphic.

    I think that the easiest way would be to figure out the categories and then divide the disciplines into them.

    Off hand, these are the divisions I can come up with:

    Before the fall: This would contain things like Scarlet Baruvia or Cthonic Serpent, disciplines that never made it to the temple. This is where we could include information about the temple itself, Reshar and the other nine masters. This is also where the two new Vestiges can be found.

    After the fall: This would have things like Bloodstained Gutter or Wyrm's Might. Relatively newer disciplines. This is where we could talk about how the world was affected by the dissemination of martial knowledge.

    Initiators In the Outer Planes: Relatively self explanatory. This is where the planar disciplines would be located. We could also include things like outsiders with martial maneuvers. Also we could, in theory, include little tidbits like what happened to the Nine masters' souls after death.

    Epic initiators: This is where the epic disciplines would go, as well as other information about epic martial initiators.



    Of course, other types or number of divisions are also possible. Such as having a sort of "core" book and more specific things in their own sourcebooks.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2019-03-30 at 07:18 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    First of all:

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    Apologies for the mild project-hijacking
    No way, thanks for pitching in.

    I'm personally only interested in doing one book. If the community does more, I think it would be best to just continue the sequence:

    Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords
    Tome of Battle II: The Age of Warriors
    Tome of Battle III: And so on


    Okay, there's a pretty big problem with the setup as it is currently: There's too much content being planned and discussed for one sourcebook by quite a long ways.
    E-ink doesn't have printing costs, so length isn't inherently a concern. As long as the book is thematically coherent -- in this case just a straightforward expansion of disciplines -- and the content is up to snuff, there's no real reason to break it into separate volumes. At least up to a certain saturation point, which is where I think we about are.


    Instead, it seems like your suggestions about integration with other subsystems would be a good subject for another volume, since that's its own thematically united thing and it frees us to not include psi or incarnum disciplines in this one. (And including theurgy in this volume would only increase bloat.) What do you think?


    3. Have new base classes cover party roles to make the all-Initiator party fully functional, if complicated to DM mechanical challenges for. This means including proper condition coverage in Disciplines, as well as "party face" effects, which could be split between a few new Maneuvers for White Raven, Divine Spirit and things to include in the Poet's loadout with reworks of the music-based Disciplines to be included.
    Good point. And I have to get around to doing the poet -- to be frank I've been holding out for a better concept but I haven't thought of one.

    If we're going to make a setting out of this, I'd prefer we sort it out so people have one well-labeled place to go for any particular setting topic, campaign element or subsystem they want to dig into and find what they need to play around with that topic, campaign element or subsystem, while the primary sourcebook covers just the general layout of the setting so that DM's can take just that and make campaigns in it.
    I'm imagining more of a "pseudo-setting". Here's the note I wrote to myself:

    Spoiler: setting note
    Show
    This isn’t a full-fledged campaign setting but rather a pseudo-setting.

    No map, no proper name like “Faerun”.

    But we do assume or assert that these things actually take place in their own setting. Obviously this doesn’t mean martial adepts or the Nine Swords can’t exist in Eberron -- but just like warforged were made for Eberron and are now in every setting, or any number of other transplanted elements, martial adept classes “are from” sword-world.

    (And for people who object to the specificity of the Nine Swords fluff, this is even more license to incorporate those classes in a more fluff-agnostic way.)

    One Word Summary

    If Eberron is “magitech”, FR is “high fantasy”, and Dragonlance is “dragons”, TOB-world is “anime/wuxia”.

    But a D&D spin on that. It’s the anime world but it’s actually less cartoony than the other settings.

    (While it takes the martial arts heroes and inexplicably supernatural fighting from wuxia, it shouldn’t have any of the melodrama or sappy romance.)

    Style Guide

    1) Pan-cultural. TOB was cultural fusion; ideally I’d like to go a step beyond that and have cultures which don’t resemble any on Earth, but that’s outside AOW’s scope.

    The panculturalism goes unexplained -- we could easily give an explanation like “because teleportation creates integration between distant societies” or “because magic acts as an equalizer”, but instead, it just is that way.

    2) The “graphics” are realistic, not stylized. But they’re bright and vivid instead of brown or washed out.

    This also applies to what people wear, what buildings look like, and the kind of light used.

    If the mortal world feels very immediate, other planes by contrast feel a little more washed out and static: this is where we have the vast vistas and so on.

    Important Features of the Setting

    1) Exciting new martial renaissance.

    2) The relationship between martial characters and casters, with martial characters as underdogs. Casters are scary. Non-casters have to fight with the Sublime Way in order to be somewhat competitive.

    Non-adept martial characters are portrayed either as bland and possibly ineffective, or as threatening but rather brutish one-trick-ponies (ie charger/tripper).


    If we're going to be making Initiation into a subsystem to rival spellcasting, we might as well include our own spell bloat of weird, niche and seemingly pointless Maneuvers to let optimizers and roleplayers have fun with.
    On the second point, totally agreed. Re making it "a subsystem to rival spellcasting", though, if you meant that in terms of power level, I think that's something to explicitly avoid. Let it be its own thing. Balance point T3ish, borderline T2 at most (and yes I see your sig).

    4. Make use of two non-standard Maneuver types: Katas
    Cool idea but maybe a little too complicated?


    ----

    Re cutting down on content: besides possibly sloughing theurge content if that's going to be another volume, the easiest way to reduce content would be getting rid of the Machinist, which is 4 discs and 1 base class, but that's kind of sad since I like the symmetry of Animist and Machinist.

    Moreso than discs it could be smart to cut down on PRCs.

    I've cut some, which brings us to 31 PrCs. An additional 7 are cross-subsystem so could be shifted if there's going to be a separate theurgy volume.
    Last edited by Elves; 2019-04-02 at 09:24 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

    No more Draconic Partisan then? That's fine. Means I don't have to put the work in to modify it to work with Wyrm's Might.

    Anyway, at the very least, it would probably be worthwhile having all the Epic ToB stuff in a separate document, since for most people epic levels aren't something they plan for.
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