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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Qu...morda_(Willow)

    . . . and how powerful would she be?
    Queen Bavmorda (simply known as Bavmorda) is the main antagonist of the 1988 fantasy film Willow, and its adaptations in novels, comic books and videogames. She is an extremely powerful sorceress and the despotic monarch of the country of Nockmaar, bent on taking over the world of Andowyne, whose attempts to destroy the baby prophesized to end her rule lead to her downfall. She was portrayed by Jean Marsh, who also played Princess Mombi in Return to Oz.
    Last edited by ArlEammon; 2019-02-23 at 10:18 PM.

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    She seems to be a very powerful but very norrowly specialised transmuter. I'd look for prestige classes that require dropping additional schools.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Braininthejar2 View Post
    She seems to be a very powerful but very norrowly specialised transmuter. I'd look for prestige classes that require dropping additional schools.
    What, exactly, should her challenge rating/encounter level be though?

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArlEammon View Post
    What, exactly, should her challenge rating/encounter level be though?
    Bit difficult to determine. She does have quite a large number of Save or Die spells at her disposal. With huge areas of affect.

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Bit difficult to determine. She does have quite a large number of Save or Die spells at her disposal. With huge areas of affect.
    Im not even sure it counts as save or die when willow had to actively counterspell her attempt to stop it from hitting him. Hmm, lets put the p[ig spell aside for now, what about her ritual to send someone to another plane? What level is forcibly sending someone else to another dimension? I know plane shift is a group teleport and only works on the willing, dimensional shift lets you transport yourself.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Wizard. Maybe a transmuter, but I'd say that the spell to do it wouldn't have to be terribly high... 5th or 6th level. It's Polymorph Other, with a big area of effect. She might have cast it a couple of times, or it has a couple round casting time. Sending the child to another plane is likewise not going to be higher than 5th level, and I bet I could get it down to 3rd (single target, just needs to transfer someone to the Ethereal or Astral plane)
    The Cranky Gamer
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    She was also defeated by a trio of low-level adventurers by means of a natural 20 on Sleight of Hand/rolling a 1 on her Sense Motive. So she can't be too high CR either. Figuring out Willow and Madmartigan's ECL and adding +5 for an Overwhelming difficulty boss fight might be better.

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    She was also defeated by a trio of low-level adventurers by means of a natural 20 on Sleight of Hand/rolling a 1 on her Sense Motive. So she can't be too high CR either. Figuring out Willow and Madmartigan's ECL and adding +5 for an Overwhelming difficulty boss fight might be better.
    Well, Willow was relatively low-level, before he began an adventure which involved killing several trolls, a two-headed hydra, etc.. Mad Martigan was the greatest swordsman who even lived. Sorscha was a general. Finn Razel was a legendary wizard. Rool and Franjean... well, they're idiots, but they might have some levels on them.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Wizard. Maybe a transmuter, but I'd say that the spell to do it wouldn't have to be terribly high... 5th or 6th level. It's Polymorph Other, with a big area of effect. She might have cast it a couple of times, or it has a couple round casting time. Sending the child to another plane is likewise not going to be higher than 5th level, and I bet I could get it down to 3rd (single target, just needs to transfer someone to the Ethereal or Astral plane)
    Now that I think of it, wasnt it supposed to send the child to a place where she could never return? Is there such a place in a D&D setting? Its not like it would be very effective if any wizard with 3rd level spells could match or counter it. Also, mass polymorph is a 9th level spell in 5e, and even that can only hit like 10 targets at a time. We might be talking epic level since she took down an entire army at once, minus two wizards able to counterspell to protect themselves.

    *EDIT* As for willow, had had on him flesh to stone acorns which is a 6th level transmutation but iirc gifted to him by the high level wizard he wanted to apprentice to before the start of his adventure. She was able to make the constitution check to negate the effect after it started to effect her.
    Last edited by Traab; 2019-02-24 at 02:06 PM.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Wizard. Maybe a transmuter, but I'd say that the spell to do it wouldn't have to be terribly high... 5th or 6th level. It's Polymorph Other, with a big area of effect. She might have cast it a couple of times, or it has a couple round casting time. Sending the child to another plane is likewise not going to be higher than 5th level, and I bet I could get it down to 3rd (single target, just needs to transfer someone to the Ethereal or Astral plane)

    Her ability to change a single target to a pig is more like a power word transformation spell, when she changed the whole army into pigs, that's when there were pig sounds and spells cast.

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Now that I think of it, wasnt it supposed to send the child to a place where she could never return? Is there such a place in a D&D setting? Its not like it would be very effective if any wizard with 3rd level spells could match or counter it. Also, mass polymorph is a 9th level spell in 5e, and even that can only hit like 10 targets at a time. We might be talking epic level since she took down an entire army at once, minus two wizards able to counterspell to protect themselves.
    Imprision is a 9th level Wizard spell in AD&D, which is what I tend to think of. It locks you in an indetectable prison far beneath the surface.

    Mass Polymorph is an 8th level wizard spell in AD&D (Wizard's Spell Compendium, Vol 2), but only covers 12 man-sized creatures per casting.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Imprision is a 9th level Wizard spell in AD&D, which is what I tend to think of. It locks you in an indetectable prison far beneath the surface.

    Mass Polymorph is an 8th level wizard spell in AD&D (Wizard's Spell Compendium, Vol 2), but only covers 12 man-sized creatures per casting.
    One last thing, didnt she also just basically will pain on her targets as well? I seem to recall her making people collapse screaming like willow or her daughter. But she had to focus on them to keep it going.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Remember that while she was defeated. She never actually lost any combat encounters. She was beaten because she basically failed a concentration check during a ritual.

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Remember that while she was defeated. She never actually lost any combat encounters. She was beaten because she basically failed a concentration check during a ritual.
    Exactly, no one defeated her, they made her upset.

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Wizard. Maybe a transmuter, but I'd say that the spell to do it wouldn't have to be terribly high... 5th or 6th level. It's Polymorph Other, with a big area of effect. She might have cast it a couple of times, or it has a couple round casting time. Sending the child to another plane is likewise not going to be higher than 5th level, and I bet I could get it down to 3rd (single target, just needs to transfer someone to the Ethereal or Astral plane)
    http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/cit...teleport--341/

    Trobriands Baleful Teleport, from Waterdeep. Sixth level spell, sends a target somewhere previously designated.
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Remember that while she was defeated. She never actually lost any combat encounters. She was beaten because she basically failed a concentration check during a ritual.
    True, that sleight of hand was epic. The bluff check was failing miserably until "Poof! Shes gone!"
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    True, that sleight of hand was epic. The bluff check was failing miserably until "Poof! Shes gone!"
    Never underestimate the value of a synergy bonus.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Which puts more credence to the idea that she was a near epic level encounter even though the adventurers were not in her league. Watch the fight scene. It wasnt about killing her in a grand battle, it was about disrupting her plans in such a way that it backfired. Aside from chucking the flesh to stone device at her, which failed to work as she made her checks after the initial effect kicked in, they didnt really fight her at all. Heck even the dmpc sorceress that helped willow was defeated in a fight with the bbeg.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Which puts more credence to the idea that she was a near epic level encounter even though the adventurers were not in her league. Watch the fight scene. It wasnt about killing her in a grand battle, it was about disrupting her plans in such a way that it backfired. Aside from chucking the flesh to stone device at her, which failed to work as she made her checks after the initial effect kicked in, they didnt really fight her at all. Heck even the dmpc sorceress that helped willow was defeated in a fight with the bbeg.
    Might I suggest her being level 20?

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    I would think she is closer to a Warlock than a pure wizard. She seem to not have a full ownership of her powers; and they devour her when they think she has failed

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArlEammon View Post
    Might I suggest her being level 20?
    Why do you want her to be level 20? Is this a setup for some thread where you pit her against Darth Overpowericus from an obscure corner of the Star Wars universe?

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    Default Re: What Kind Of D&D Villain Would Queen Bavmorda Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Why do you want her to be level 20? Is this a setup for some thread where you pit her against Darth Overpowericus from an obscure corner of the Star Wars universe?
    Too be fair a number of her feats seem around epic level considering even spells like mass polymorph cant effect entire armies. Then when you consider there is no battle between the bbeg and the hero, just a scripted npc fight while our character fights at best some sort of golem creature and only can win through a tricky plan, the idea of her being some stupidly high level boss makes sense.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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