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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Yunru's Avatar

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    Default Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Just an attemped port from 4e to 5e, the "Essentials" classes being nice and compatible like that.


    Knight:

    Hold the Line: Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, enemies within reach have a -2 penalty to attack rolls of attacks that don't include you.

    Combat Readiness: Starting at 7th level, you can add your proficiency bonus to your initiative rolls. Additionally you gain the following stances. Stances end on a short rest, long rest or on assuming another stance. Assuming a stance takes a bonus action.
    • Precision Blade: While in the Precision Blade stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, that creature's speed is halved until your next turn.
    • Hammer Hands: While in the Hammer Hands stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack you can push it up to 5 feet.
    • Measured Cut: While in the Measured Cut stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can move up to 5 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.


    Weapon Specialisation: At 10th level, you pick one of the following weapon specialisations.
    • Bladed Step: When you Action Surge, your attacks that deal slashing damage have advantage until end of turn.
    • Staggering Hammer: When you Action Surge, if you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack that deals bludgeoning damage this turn, that creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against a DC of 8 + your strength modifier + your proficiency bonus or be Stunned until the start of your next turn.
    • Pointed Assault: When you Action Surge, if you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack that deals piercing damage, you can push that creature up to 10 feet.


    Improved Hold the Line: Starting at 15th level, you have advantage on Opportunity Attacks.

    Iron Will: Starting at 18th level, at the start of your turn you can make a saving throw against an effect that a saving throw could end.


    Homebrew Index
    Last edited by Yunru; 2019-03-22 at 11:56 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Bu-ump.
    While it's one of my older works, and just a conversion, it would be nice to get some feedback, especially given how things didn't cross over perfectly.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Just an attemped port from 4e to 5e, the "Essentials" classes being nice and compatible like that.


    Knight:

    Hold the Line: Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, enemies within reach have a -2 penalty to attack rolls of attacks that don't include you.

    Combat Readiness: Starting at 7th level, you can add your proficiency bonus to your initiative rolls. Additionally you gain the following stances. Stances end on a short rest, long rest or on assuming another stance. Assuming a stance takes a bonus action.
    • Precision Blade: While in the Precision Blade stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, that creature's speed is halved until your next turn.
    • Hammer Hands: While in the Hammer Hands stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack you can push it up to 5 feet.
    • Measured Cut: While in the Measured Cut stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can move up to 5 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.


    Weapon Specialisation: At 10th level, you pick one of the following weapon specialisations.
    • Bladed Step: When you Action Surge, your attacks that deal slashing damage have advantage until end of turn.
    • Staggering Hammer: When you Action Surge, if you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack that deals bludgeoning damage this turn, that creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against a DC of 8 + your strength modifier + your proficiency bonus or be Stunned until the start of your next turn.
    • Pointed Assault: When you Action Surge, if you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack that deals piercing damage, you can push that creature up to 10 feet.


    Improved Hold the Line: Starting at 15th level, you have advantage on Opportunity Attacks.

    Iron Will: Starting at 18th level, at the start of your turn you can make a saving throw against an effect that a saving throw could end.


    Homebrew Index
    Very rarely should you give numerical penalties or bonuses. The disadvantage system works here.


    Hold the Line: Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, enemies within reach of your melee weapon have disadvantage on attack rolls if the attack doesn't include you.

    Stances should come at 3rd level, however they need to be remade into more 5e friendly. The issue is that a lot of your stances are already feats, similar class features, or just aren't really as big of an "oomph" as they should be. I would give them something special, but I haven't thought a lot on this.

    7th level should just be your initiative bonus and perhaps some skill bonus. Fighter's main subclass gimmick come at 3rd level.

    10th Level I would imrpove Hold the Line.

    15th level I would improve the stances.

    18th level... Iron Will, I like it.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    I agree with what most of SpawnOfMorbo said, especially about flat numeric modifiers. There really is no reason not to use disadvantage there.

    The only thing I disagree on is I'm not so keen on Iron Will, it's certainly an interesting ability but my main gripe is that the fighter already has Indomitable as a class feature, so another one that allows you to re-roll saves seems a bit redundant. Perhaps proficiency is Wisdom saves, or even advantage on all saving throws could work. The monk gets proficiency in all saves at level 14, so that may even be an option.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightOfLain View Post
    I agree with what most of SpawnOfMorbo said, especially about flat numeric modifiers. There really is no reason not to use disadvantage there.

    The only thing I disagree on is I'm not so keen on Iron Will, it's certainly an interesting ability but my main gripe is that the fighter already has Indomitable as a class feature, so another one that allows you to re-roll saves seems a bit redundant. Perhaps proficiency is Wisdom saves, or even advantage on all saving throws could work. The monk gets proficiency in all saves at level 14, so that may even be an option.
    Iron Will allows you to reroll at the beginning of your turn... Which means you will keep your turn if you're under some weird effect such as stunning. Additionally, it compliments Indomitable as you can then use Indomitable if you fail your Iron Will save.

    Iron Will in 4e was actually a Warden feature that was very, very, handy and it will be very, very, handy if it's in 5e.

    I would replace Indomitable with Iron Will on the base fighter if I could. Rolling at the start of a turn is so dang nice for the mental saves that the fighter is going to be failing.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Just an attemped port from 4e to 5e, the "Essentials" classes being nice and compatible like that.

    Knight:
    As the other posters have already remarked, fighter subclasses have their combat-altering/subclass-defining feature at 3rd level. Hold the Line doesn't quite fit that bill - moving the stances from 7th level to 3rd level and making Hold the Line one of the stance options would be appropriate. (One reason why Purple Dragon Knights fall flat as a fighter subclass is because their 3rd level feature is a 'mass Second Wind', which is good in and of itself, but also doesn't fit the bill.)

    In addition, most fighter subclasses get a feature at 7th level that works out of combat, even if it has combat utility. Champion's Remarkable Athlete, Purple Dragon Knight's Royal Envoy, and so on. This subclass is all combat, all the time.

    Overall, nice subclass, works well. Needs some revision here and there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Hold the Line: Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, enemies within reach have a -2 penalty to attack rolls of attacks that don't include you.
    I'll concur with others that disadvantage is more appropriate for this feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Combat Readiness: Starting at 7th level, you can add your proficiency bonus to your initiative rolls. Additionally you gain the following stances. Stances end on a short rest, long rest or on assuming another stance. Assuming a stance takes a bonus action.
    • Precision Blade: While in the Precision Blade stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, that creature's speed is halved until your next turn.
    • Hammer Hands: While in the Hammer Hands stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack you can push it up to 5 feet.
    • Measured Cut: While in the Measured Cut stance, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can move up to 5 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.
    I like these stances as a concept. They make you different from other fighters by giving you some battlefield control options. As SpawnofMorbo points out, they do step a bit on feats, and 5e usually (but not always) tries not to duplicate feats as class features.

    Precision Blade is fine. Hammer Hands is fine. Measured Cut... I'm assuming the original ability let you shift 1 square in 4e? I would hazard a guess that 99% of the time if you're only moving 5 feet you're not leaving a creature's reach, which is the only way to trigger an opportunity attack in 5e. So it needs a rethink, I should imagine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Weapon Specialisation: At 10th level, you pick one of the following weapon specialisations.
    • Bladed Step: When you Action Surge, your attacks that deal slashing damage have advantage until end of turn.
    • Staggering Hammer: When you Action Surge, if you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack that deals bludgeoning damage this turn, that creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against a DC of 8 + your strength modifier + your proficiency bonus or be Stunned until the start of your next turn.
    • Pointed Assault: When you Action Surge, if you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack that deals piercing damage, you can push that creature up to 10 feet.
    Bladed Step and Staggering Hammer are fine. One is a big boost to damage and the other inflicts a powerful condition instead of boosting damage. Well and good. Pointed Assault... since you have a stance that lets you push creatures, it really feels redundant and underpowered relative to the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Improved Hold the Line: Starting at 15th level, you have advantage on Opportunity Attacks.
    This is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Iron Will: Starting at 18th level, at the start of your turn you can make a saving throw against an effect that a saving throw could end.
    This is fine.
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    Character Options: Fighter Remix, Paladin Oaths, Ranger Remix, Sorcerer Remix
    Playing the Game: Using Ability Score Variants
    New Subsystems: Combat Manoeuvre System
    Monsters: Yogg-Saron

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Yunru's Avatar

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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightOfLain View Post
    I agree with what most of SpawnOfMorbo said, especially about flat numeric modifiers. There really is no reason not to use disadvantage there.
    Disadvantage is a little strong for 3rd level, no?
    Although if I swap it and the stances it should be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Stances should come at 3rd level, however they need to be remade into more 5e friendly. The issue is that a lot of your stances are already feats, similar class features, or just aren't really as big of an "oomph" as they should be. I would give them something special, but I haven't thought a lot on this.
    They're an always-on bonus to your attacks that you can switch between as a bonus action. They're supposed to be small be consistent.
    I also don't see any that are represented in feats?
    Last edited by Yunru; 2019-09-18 at 07:38 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Disadvantage is a little strong for 3rd level, no?
    Although if I swap it and the stances it should be fine.
    No.

    Not for a key ability that is your gimmick.

    Plus. Numerically speaking, disadvantage is worth about -3 ish on the roll.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Iron Will allows you to reroll at the beginning of your turn... Which means you will keep your turn if you're under some weird effect such as stunning. Additionally, it compliments Indomitable as you can then use Indomitable if you fail your Iron Will save.

    Iron Will in 4e was actually a Warden feature that was very, very, handy and it will be very, very, handy if it's in 5e.

    I would replace Indomitable with Iron Will on the base fighter if I could. Rolling at the start of a turn is so dang nice for the mental saves that the fighter is going to be failing.
    I understand what it does, I just don't like it. It's a fine ability, I just think that for a level 18 "screw your save-or-suck" ability its kind of meh. Earlier on I wouldn't have any issue, but at that level I think is should help you from failing the roll in the first place, since the fighter already has a 2nd chance mechanism.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightOfLain View Post
    I understand what it does, I just don't like it. It's a fine ability, I just think that for a level 18 "screw your save-or-suck" ability its kind of meh. Earlier on I wouldn't have any issue, but at that level I think is should help you from failing the roll in the first place, since the fighter already has a 2nd chance mechanism.
    I don't think you understand what Iron Will details.

    This is not like indomitable. Indomitable allows you to reroll a save, potentially negating it before it takes hold. Iron Will allows you to have 2 saving throws for an effect in a turn. It allows you a chance to get your turn back once indomitable fails you.

    This is a massively strong feature at high levels when things are throwing around will saves like a first level wizard throws out cantrips.

    It's indomitable on crack.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Knight Subclass (4e conversion)

    Except by level 18, save-or-suck spells tend not to have "repeat a save each turn".

    I mean, banishment. Charisma save, no repeats.

    If you want it stronger...

    Iron Will: Starting at 18th level, at the start of your turn you can make a saving throw against an effect that a saving throw could end, or a spell or effect that is currently being concentrated on that you have failed a save against.
    That catches banishment at least.

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