The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Jade Empire, that is a name I have not heard in a long time. I'm going to kindly ask that no one brings up exactly when Jade Empire came out, I suspect the revelation will only remind me about the unyielding passage of time and that I am in fact old.

    I remember liking it, I got a copy for the xbox sitting on my shelf. But don't ask me for tips and tricks or quiz me on the plot. I will concur with the morality system being a flub. KotOR with it's lightside/darkside thing you didn't expect much out of the morality system and it was still bad. Jade Empire's open palm/closed fist though was described in a way that set up expectations that the game basically never attempted to live up to.

    Myself I'm playing skyrim...again. Maybe someday before I die I will actually do everything in a TES game. Maybe at least complete the mainquest. No... I don't believe myself either. Currently running around Solstheim doing some random quests while I level up some tertiary skills for perks in between sessions of brewing enchanting potions so I can make enchanting alchemy gear so I can make enchanting potions. You know... so I can enchant smithing gear... so I can smith things to be every more legendary. Nevermind that the armor I'm already wearing breaks the armor cap... Listen I know this kind of thing is the reason I'm never going to beat the game.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Really? It's been a while since I played, but I recall having enough to go around. By the end of the game I was never using the starting style or weapon anymore - I usually switched to the Leaping Tiger as my martial style, the double axes as my weapon, and... *looks it up* Storm Dragon as my preferred support style, usually with the ice or earth magic thrown in every so often and some use of Spirit Thief when necessary.
    I might be misremembering, I remember switching my primary style being painful for about three levels but that might have been because I didn't sidequest as much as I should have. Looking it up I'd forgotten that you the points you get per level grows pretty quickly, which does ring a bell as I remember switching my main magic style being less painful. I think my final set for my first runthrough was:
    -Legendary Strike
    -Stone Immortal
    -Paralysing Palm
    -Spirit Thief


    One of the most annoying things that replaying it has reminded me off is that it gives you the choice of being a nice follower of the Open Palm philosphy or a puppy kicking evil person. The game really seems to think Closed Fist is akin to evil, instead of the more 'social dawarnist/tough love' version it's explained as. I mean, why is a very legitimate Closed Fist choice giving you less Closed Fist points than just murdering somebody?

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    For those who have played the story, you know the choice I mean. Pirate hideout, knife, standing up for oneself.

    Although I'm also annoyed at how the endings are treated as Open Palm and Closed Fist despite there being legitimate reasons for a follower of either philosphy to pick either choice.

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    I mean, I'm sure a Closed Fist follower might want to only rely on their own power, and kill the Water Dragon's body instead of stealing her power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    One of the most annoying things that replaying it has reminded me off is that it gives you the choice of being a nice follower of the Open Palm philosphy or a puppy kicking evil person. The game really seems to think Closed Fist is akin to evil, instead of the more 'social dawarnist/tough love' version it's explained as. I mean, why is a very legitimate Closed Fist choice giving you less Closed Fist points than just murdering somebody?

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    For those who have played the story, you know the choice I mean. Pirate hideout, knife, standing up for oneself.

    Although I'm also annoyed at how the endings are treated as Open Palm and Closed Fist despite there being legitimate reasons for a follower of either philosphy to pick either choice.

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    I mean, I'm sure a Closed Fist follower might want to only rely on their own power, and kill the Water Dragon's body instead of stealing her power.
    Oh yeah, Jade Empire's morality system is a bit of a mess that way, for sure. I'm not sure if they were going for a more order vs chaos type of system (the way the game's explanations of it would imply) and just somehow wound up treating it like straight good vs evil, or if they always intended to do it as good vs evil and just thought that trying to frame it differently was appropriate to the setting, in the process creating expectations that it really doesn't meet at all. Either way though, the end result is kind of disappointing.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster707 View Post
    I don't want to come across as defending Epic, or anything, but platform exclusives aren't really anything new. And while they're definitely annoying for us consumers, I wouldn't say they're "shady," and there's definitely no bribery involved. It's just business.
    Oh, yes, obviously it's business and everything.
    But it's the part where Metro is pulled off of Steam one week before release that is just a little off. As far as business decisions go, I wonder what kind of advantage the Metro publishers have to move to a completely new platform out of nowhere after pre-purchases on Steam had been out for a while.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster707 View Post
    I don't want to come across as defending Epic, or anything, but platform exclusives aren't really anything new. And while they're definitely annoying for us consumers, I wouldn't say they're "shady," and there's definitely no bribery involved. It's just business.

    Anyway, back on topic: I finished Axiom Verge. I don't really have anything new to say about it, but it was good. Now I'm starting on Hollow Knight - usually I wouldn't play two games this similar back to back, but that giveaway threw off my lineup. While they're both Metroidvanias, Axiom Verge is extremely Metroid while Hollow Knight seems to take a lot of inspiration from Dark Souls. I haven't played enough to say much more yet, but the art is beautiful.
    I got a decent ways into Hollow Knight. Was really liking it. Problem is I prefer to play on a console and own it on Steam. Iíll come back to it at some point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    As a DM, I deal with character death by cheering and giving a fist pump, or maybe a V-for-victory sign. I would also pat myself on the back, but I can't really reach around like that.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    I got a decent ways into Hollow Knight. Was really liking it. Problem is I prefer to play on a console and own it on Steam. Iíll come back to it at some point.
    I own a cheap Dualshock-knockoff design USB controller for pretty much this reason - makes platformer, action, and retro-console type games a lot more tolerable to play on PC. Strongly recommend. I want to say the modern generation Xbox and Playstation controllers are also pretty easy to hook up to Windows, although it might take a little fussing with settings or adding a Bluetooth dongle or something for the wireless ones.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I'm still playing Smash Ultimate daily online. Game's just that much fun.
    Recently been playing this with my daughter. Finally unlocked Bowser and using him as my main. My daughter is kicking butt with the Mii Swordfighter. Together we fight crime.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I own a cheap Dualshock-knockoff design USB controller for pretty much this reason - makes platformer, action, and retro-console type games a lot more tolerable to play on PC. Strongly recommend. I want to say the modern generation Xbox and Playstation controllers are also pretty easy to hook up to Windows, although it might take a little fussing with settings or adding a Bluetooth dongle or something for the wireless ones.
    Ahh itís not a controller issue. I use a PS4 controller with my laptop. Itís the small, close screen that bothers me.
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    A comment on tiers, by Prime32
    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    As a DM, I deal with character death by cheering and giving a fist pump, or maybe a V-for-victory sign. I would also pat myself on the back, but I can't really reach around like that.
      /l、
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     l、゙ ~ヽ
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Depending on the age of the Laptop, you might have an HDMI out you can use to put it up on a TV.
    I am trying out LPing. Check out my channel here: Triaxx2

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Oh, yes, obviously it's business and everything.
    But it's the part where Metro is pulled off of Steam one week before release that is just a little off. As far as business decisions go, I wonder what kind of advantage the Metro publishers have to move to a completely new platform out of nowhere after pre-purchases on Steam had been out for a while.
    Yeah, if this had been announced six months ago I don't think there would have been so much of a fuss about it--it was the stupidly short notice that really got everyone's back up. Well, that and the Epic store being hot garbage that no-one would use if they didn't have to!

    Re: the morality system in Jade Empire: I think it's interesting because it's quite clearly where the Paragon/Renegade system from Mass Effect came from. As a first attempt to get away from good and evil morality systems I think it's surprisingly good, considering you never expect the first time doing anything to work properly.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Re: the morality system in Jade Empire: I think it's interesting because it's quite clearly where the Paragon/Renegade system from Mass Effect came from. As a first attempt to get away from good and evil morality systems I think it's surprisingly good, considering you never expect the first time doing anything to work properly.
    I'm starting to be convinced that they began with a 'light and dark' system, decided it wouldn't work for a Wuxia game, and then created the Open Palm/Closed Fist duality and decided to make all the 'nice' decisions OP and the 'nasty' ones CF, only adding in a handful of new options and mostly in the early game (because the Closed Fist path does have a few very well written Closed Fist actions, but if given the choice between a philosphical Closed Fist action and an utter jerk Closed Fist action the latter will always give more points). One of the things I want to try to do at some point is to rewrite the entire game so that the PC has the option of going 'good' Open Palm or 'good' Closed Fist so that whichever way they go they mirror one of the main villains in the game, but that would be a massive undertaking.

    I mean, the morality system is all good in theory, it's just that in practice it doesn't work out. Why is teaching somebody to fight for themselves less of a Closed Fist action than just murdering them? It's notable that this only really applies to Closed Fist runs, so I suspect that the developers expected most players to go Open Palm and spent most of their time there. The Open Palm run is just so much better written, the game is heavily biased towards the Open Palm philosophy (there's not a single major character who truly represents the good side of Closed Fist), and the endings are split between the philosophies in a way that is a bit contrived (assuming Open Palm means Harmony is fine, that's fairly true, but why does Closed Fist have to mean power?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I own a cheap Dualshock-knockoff design USB controller for pretty much this reason - makes platformer, action, and retro-console type games a lot more tolerable to play on PC. Strongly recommend. I want to say the modern generation Xbox and Playstation controllers are also pretty easy to hook up to Windows, although it might take a little fussing with settings or adding a Bluetooth dongle or something for the wireless ones.
    My brother hooked up one of the Wii classic gamepads to my computer, and I just use that. Worked marvelously for Hollow Knight and similar games, but needed a cheap bluetooth dongle off the net, yeah.

    Don't try playing Hollow Knight with a keyboard. It's miserable.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    It's notable that this only really applies to Closed Fist runs, so I suspect that the developers expected most players to go Open Palm and spent most of their time there.
    I think the same applies to some extent to the Renegade option in the Mass Effect games. The most stupid example of that is one I've mentioned before, where somehow taking the insane Asari who kills people by sexing them to death onto your crew is a Renegade choice, while helping her mother is the Paragon one. Unless Renegade has been redefined to mean "certifiable" that choice makes absolutely no sense--there is no good reason for Shepard to take Morinth along, since he has no way of knowing if her insanity will endanger his mission. He doesn't even have the excuse of her being more powerful than her mother, because the two of them are locked in a perfectly even duel and that's the only reason he gets to make the choice in the first place!

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I think the same applies to some extent to the Renegade option in the Mass Effect games. The most stupid example of that is one I've mentioned before, where somehow taking the insane Asari who kills people by sexing them to death onto your crew is a Renegade choice, while helping her mother is the Paragon one. Unless Renegade has been redefined to mean "certifiable" that choice makes absolutely no sense--there is no good reason for Shepard to take Morinth along, since he has no way of knowing if her insanity will endanger his mission. He doesn't even have the excuse of her being more powerful than her mother, because the two of them are locked in a perfectly even duel and that's the only reason he gets to make the choice in the first place!
    Most Paragon/Renegade decisions make sense from a 'idealistic/pragmatic' approach but yeah that one is stupid. From the evidence we're given Samara and Morinth are just as strong, Morinth is significantly more dangerous (if I'm remembering correctly I believe she has a compulsion to perform murdersex), and we have no certainty that Morinth is going to become stronger faster than Samara.

    Mass Effect was generally a lot better, because when it comes down to it Paragon/Renegade boils down to 'act like a jerk to make things easier now, or be nice in the hopes that it pays off later', but it still had it's own shortcomings. I think Dragon Age really cracked how morality meters should work in Bioware games: they shouldn't really be there. I can roughly work out what sort of decisions you made based on which characters like you (Alistair and Liliana like idealistic decisions, Sten prefers pragmatism, etc.) but the game doesn't keep track.

    Of course, Bioware games all tend to have the 'evil' choice give a short term reward, but have making consistently 'good' choices give you something better in the long run. It's just that at least in Mass Effect there was obviously effort to have the Renegade choices not be stupid evil.

    And I just encountered a bug which stopped me from progressing past one of the encounters in the pirate hideout (two enemies didn't enter the area and stood blocking the door, so that when the combat finished I couldn't progress). I'll come back to the game tomorrow, see if it happens again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Don't try playing Hollow Knight with a keyboard. It's miserable.
    It's not that bad, I think. It's certainly better for someone who is used to keyboard but totally isn't to a gamepad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Mass Effect was generally a lot better, because when it comes down to it Paragon/Renegade boils down to 'act like a jerk to make things easier now, or be nice in the hopes that it pays off later', but it still had it's own shortcomings. I think Dragon Age really cracked how morality meters should work in Bioware games: they shouldn't really be there. I can roughly work out what sort of decisions you made based on which characters like you (Alistair and Liliana like idealistic decisions, Sten prefers pragmatism, etc.) but the game doesn't keep track.

    Of course, Bioware games all tend to have the 'evil' choice give a short term reward, but have making consistently 'good' choices give you something better in the long run. It's just that at least in Mass Effect there was obviously effort to have the Renegade choices not be stupid evil.
    I think the strongpoint of the Renegade side was the badassitude factor. No other game had such action movie moments tacked on to their "evil" alignment choices like Mass Effect, I think.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Playing different things on different consoles.
    On PC, currently playing Warframe while I wait for the next Path of Exile update to launch.
    I played Warframe like, over 5 years ago, though it seems my account was banned (got hacked and there was "illegal trading of goods and services" or something like that), so I started up again, and there is a lot of new stuff from before.

    If I'm not playing computer games, I play Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Links on my cell, since my friend got me hooked on it.

    If not those, I'll probably play Monster Hunter World on the PS4, though I really need to finish The Witch and the Hundred 2.

    If I'm not playing PC, phone, or PS4, I'm playing Super Smash Bros or whatever my fiancťe wants to play together on the Switch.

    If none of those, I go to the arcade and play In The Groove (prefer it over DDR) or Pump It Up

    But sticking more to the title of the thread, I'm currently playing Warframe and Duel Links.
    Last edited by Buji; 2019-02-22 at 05:39 PM.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Still picking away at Skyrim today. Turned it on and I came to realize something. My homestead at Windstad Manor doesn't have it's wings yet. Once I realized this I immediately though, yes this will be the rabbit hole that I get lost in today. So I'm trying to figure out which three wings I want to build on this place. I'm leaning towards putting the three tower wings on this one. The alchemy laboratory, the enchanters tower, and the Library. They seem like nice themed rooms for storing allot of the junk I'm currently using the place as a hoarders nest.

    Ultimately these choices aren't that important and all my dithering on this is just another example of why I will never beat a TES game.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Spent time over the weekend playing Smash Bros Ultimate And Mario Kart 8 with my daughter. There needs to be a warning label on how cute Isabelle is riding a vespa in a race. ^^;

    Rather proud that my daughter can finally beat me in Smash. She mains Lucario really well!
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    It's not that bad, I think. It's certainly better for someone who is used to keyboard but totally isn't to a gamepad.
    It's actually rather terrible. I'm a keyboard+mouse-kinda-guy, and I picked up a gamepad for Hollow Knight ... having never owned one before. And it was a near-instant improvement. And I'm 48, my days of picking things up quickly are behind me.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Spent time over the weekend playing Smash Bros Ultimate And Mario Kart 8 with my daughter. There needs to be a warning label on how cute Isabelle is riding a vespa in a race. ^^;

    Rather proud that my daughter can finally beat me in Smash. She mains Lucario really well!
    Ah, they grow up so fast. Soon you're going to be the out of touch parent who is terrible at videogames and your children are embarassed to play with you.
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-02-25 at 09:45 AM.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Beat Borderlands as Lillith, went on to play as Brick for a bit. If I finish with Brick, it will only leave the hunter unfinished.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    It's actually rather terrible. I'm a keyboard+mouse-kinda-guy, and I picked up a gamepad for Hollow Knight ... having never owned one before. And it was a near-instant improvement.
    It used to be the case that the big advantage of owning a PC was that you could use the right controller for the job. Flight sim? Joystick. Driving game? Steering wheel and pedals. I'm really not sure where the idea that "proper" gamers use mouse and keyboard, unlike those console peasants, came from. (Not suggesting you were saying that, mind, it just came to me while I read your comment).

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    It used to be the case that the big advantage of owning a PC was that you could use the right controller for the job. Flight sim? Joystick. Driving game? Steering wheel and pedals. I'm really not sure where the idea that "proper" gamers use mouse and keyboard, unlike those console peasants, came from. (Not suggesting you were saying that, mind, it just came to me while I read your comment).
    I think the idea is that mouse movement is very much more precise than most other kind of controllers so it can be used for almost literally any kind of game.
    It's very versatile, it's true, but I prefer controlers for platforming and racing games.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    I think the idea is that mouse movement is very much more precise than most other kind of controllers so it can be used for almost literally any kind of game.
    The extra precision of a mouse actually only really shows benefit in shooters. (And RTS games, but trying to play them with anything else is just silly).

    Mouse + Keyboard is an interface which does a few things very well.

    Some people have confused that with it being the best at everything. There are many more types of games that mouse + keyboard is really bad for and barely existed on PC until people started regularly plugging gamepads in (Gamepads are a control system which does almost everything at least competently but few things exceptionally well).

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    It's actually rather terrible. I'm a keyboard+mouse-kinda-guy, and I picked up a gamepad for Hollow Knight ... having never owned one before. And it was a near-instant improvement. And I'm 48, my days of picking things up quickly are behind me.
    It could be that the controller's stick (or whatever its name is) may have a small advantage in a blank-slate case, but as someone who constantly plays platformers with a keyboard, I had no issue with it. In fact, if you gave me a controller, I probably couldn't have finished the game.

    I think the keyboard's shortcoming makes itself more visible in racing games rather than platformers. In all platformers that I recall of, your softest key press will end up making the smallest possible move in the game, which means no disadvantages. While in most racing games, even your softest key press will make a rotation that's sometimes simply too big in high speeds.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2019-02-25 at 11:47 AM.

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Ah, they grow up so fast. Soon you're going to be the out of touch parent who is terrible at videogames and your children are embarassed to play with you.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Not to mention Analog input from a stick means more granular control than walk full speed/run full speed.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    On controllers:

    Many years ago (say, late 90s), I had a number of good space combat sims... Wing Commander, XWing, and TIE fighter, plus WC: Privateer. At first, I was all jazzed to play with a joystick, but the consensus from everyone was that mouse was better... and it was. Every time. The control was more precise, less likely to slew too far. Switching to mouse made a lot of difference.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    On controllers:

    Many years ago (say, late 90s), I had a number of good space combat sims... Wing Commander, XWing, and TIE fighter, plus WC: Privateer. At first, I was all jazzed to play with a joystick, but the consensus from everyone was that mouse was better... and it was. Every time. The control was more precise, less likely to slew too far. Switching to mouse made a lot of difference.
    I remember playing flight sims with sticks and mice, on the Atari ST. It was possible, but the sticks were not very good in those days. The sticks basically had switches in them that were either open or closed. Then I came across something british made called a mouse stick, which used potentiometers, and that was better, though the design was a bit odd (the actual stick was about 1.5 inches tall, and there were lots of buttons), and they wanted you to use it instead of a mouse when you weren't playing flight sims.

    All IBM compatible PC compatible flight sticks that I've seen have been potentiometer ones, or hall effect which is similar, I think they mostly were back in the day too, those just weren't available on the Atari ST joystick or mouse interfaces.
    Last edited by halfeye; 2019-02-25 at 05:31 PM.
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing Right Now, Part 2: Daggerfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    On controllers:

    Many years ago (say, late 90s), I had a number of good space combat sims... Wing Commander, XWing, and TIE fighter, plus WC: Privateer. At first, I was all jazzed to play with a joystick, but the consensus from everyone was that mouse was better... and it was. Every time. The control was more precise, less likely to slew too far. Switching to mouse made a lot of difference.
    Huh, I had much the opposite experience. Way back when I was a kid playing TIE Fighter, I recall initially finding it unplayable trying to do so with a mouse - I couldn't even pass the training stage because I would crash into absolutely everything. It was only after my dad showed me that we had a joystick I could use instead that I started to feel like I could actually control and enjoy the game. I never even tried using the mouse again for the couple of other such games I played afterward.
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