What builds do you wish you'd played?

[masteraleph]

Having finally picked up a regular 4e game again recently, I've been thinking about the various builds that I'd love to play, but never have had a chance. Curious about what other people wish they could try out.

I've finally had a chance to try out a version of my He Thinks He's Divine build, in a level 28 adventure (Battlemind|Paladin who combines Blackstone Guardian and Brutal Barrage to petrify and multi-crit enemies). Instead of doing it with a Tiefling, which I'd still do at lower levels, I'm doing it with a Dragonborn, with Thundering/Concussive/Hurl Breath that Sanctions and can be regained when I reduce an enemy to 0 hp. It's a lot of fun, and Topaz Crusader is ridiculous.

If I had a chance to play a leader, I'd love to play a Valor Bard/War Chanter. I love the flavor, I love the idea of dipping into other classes, and I have visions of a kind of rebellious half elf drummer who spins around daggers that triple as weapons, implements, and drumsticks. Ardent|Bard is probably more optimized, but it annoys me because of the lack of Encounter power progression (or even Augmentable At Will) for most of Paragon and early Epic. I also like the idea of a Shaman|Sentinel Wall of Fur build- not the most optimized, but a lot of fun, I think. A build that eventually move into Luckbringer of Tymora brings up some really interesting joint party building- the E20 becomes MASSIVELY good with a Battlemind ally, for example, or a Genasi friend.

If I had a chance to play a controller, I'd love to play a headspin variant- I really like the divine flavor, and the idea of a stout human/half elf/dwarf, or even an deva unusually built like a barrel, waving around a huge morningstar. Alternatively, a Deva Wis|Int Divine Orator Invoker speaking Supernal by early Paragon, spouting the words of the gods. Basically, I just really like Divine controllers.

If I had a chance to play a defender (besides the current one), I'd love a Battlemind|Swordmage/Evermeet Warlock (I'm pretty sure I'm swiping this idea from Mwao). Lots of big area control, teleporting all over the place, etc. I'd also love to play a Napalm type build (Paladin|X, trying to add lots of autodamage stuff), which I feel like requires some party coordination- works much better with a Morninglord to significantly boost your damage. I'd also be intrigued by a Battlemind|Paladin/Champion of Order- I'm apparently a sucker for Dizzying Mace- but that really needs a party that's ok with a Defender who deals minimal damage.

And strikers- oh, strikers. I like strikers, but they tend to get restricted by DMs a lot more than others, and resistances make me sad- especially when a DM, totally legitimately, throws in Demons or Devils, which tend to have Variable Resistance. I'd love to try out Mwao's massively powerful monk at low levels, just to play a monk. Fighter|Swordmage seems like fun- Barbarian Swordmage is probably more powerful, but Fighter|Swordmage would be a good time and a little less ridiculous, though either one would meet the *teleports all over and deals lots of damage* rubric. And I'd love, with a willing and knowing party, to try a Rebreather out- I know they end up quite overpowered, but they require good tactical play and party coordination, and they fit my rule of generally being able to deal with resistances.

What's your favored build that you've never used?

[Kurald Galain]

The funniest build I've never got to play is a swordmage|wizard build that used various combos to add a ridiculous push distance to his attacks. In heroic he would do something like push 10 + prone + slowed. Basically, he hits you and you end up on the other side of the battlefield. I call him the Homerun Hitter

[Telwar]

I never got around to making my Angel Summoner (dwarf invoker MC druid...sometimes the angel is a dire tiger...).

[tiornys]

I used to play a lot of LFR (Living Forgotten Realms) and PBP, so there are very few builds I was excited about that I didn't play at least once. There are several that I only played once or a few times that I would have loved to play more often. In rough order of most desire to least:

• Pursuit Avenger, Auspex7 style. I actually made this a couple of times, as a Razorclaw Shifter in PBP and as a Githzerai in LFR, but didn't make it past mid-heroic either time.
• Flameswitch i.e. Shaman|Warlord/Invoker (Flame of Hope). Got to level 3 in a PBP campaign.
• Wizard|Shaman/Invoker (Flame of Hope). Inspired by all the Int-centric hybrid builds and the ridiculousness that is Flame of Hope. Got this to mid heroic in LFR.
• Daggermaster Rogue. Played one to upper heroic in LFR (obviously never made it to Daggermaster).
• Dragonborn Fighter abusing Draconic Arrogance. Played a one-shot in paragon tier.
• Genasi Wizard abusing Elemental Empowerment. The idea here wasn't to try being a striker, but rather to be a good controlling Wizard who happened to dish out a lot of damage. Played once at level 1.

[Dimers]

• genasi barbarian/wizard blood mage -- a fun, flavorful and reasonably effective striker at range or right in your face
• ghostwalker assassin -- for the flabbergasting out-of-combat sneaking, though I'd need a DM willing and able to let the character completely bypass a fair number of skill challenges
• goblin Snapping Testudo -- Hih. LAIR. Ee-us. Not effective, but hilarious in play.
• Ultimate Wind -- built in a vacuum, a warden|fighter/druid, though modest party support would allow you to skip druid; can spend a surge every combat round for the whole adventuring day and get +11 defenses and a -8 mark penalty every time ...
• a sort of ping-pong battlemind|cavalier/vampire thing for surgeless durability, just to see if it really works
• Speaker for the Dead -- deva occultist shaman/witch Dusk Oracle, combining three non-ritual forms of divination in a single viable and flavorful build
• shadar-kai debuffer, again mostly to see if it works. But this is effectively unplayable in PbP, and meatspace games don't work well for my needs.
• Widow of Arach-Tilith invoker/assassin, unwilling servant of the god of poison -- every single one of her attacks is irresistible damage-boosted poison

A large part of the reason I've never been able to play these is that many only "come online" in paragon tier or thereabouts. I mean, they're not BAD before then, but they don't have anything special mechanically.

[Kurald Galain]

I'd been trying to make a wizard build using cold powers, Path of the Scarred (all enc/day powers deal +1 fire damage), Arcane Fire (if you hit with fire, enemies get vuln 5 cold), and Wintertouched (get CA vs vuln cold). So basically, whenever you hit an enemy, gain free CA and +5 damage on all subsequent attacks. However, while this feels like an elegant combo, it doesn't noticeably deal more damage than a standard Elemental Empowerment build. So that's a build I wish I'd gotten to work better?

[darkbard]

[*]Speaker for the Dead -- deva occultist shaman/witch Dusk Oracle, combining three non-ritual forms of divination in a single viable and flavorful build

[...]

A large part of the reason I've never been able to play these is that many only "come online" in paragon tier or thereabouts. I mean, they're not BAD before then, but they don't have anything special mechanically.

I'm intrigued by this concept in particular. Do you have a build mapped out? Is this one that doesn't come together until Paragon?

[MwaO]

If I had a chance to play a defender (besides the current one), I'd love a Battlemind|Swordmage/Evermeet Warlock (I'm pretty sure I'm swiping this idea from Mwao). Lots of big area control, teleporting all over the place, etc.

Yeah, that sounds like my Invisible Stalker build. It is crazy fun in actual play.

I'd love to try out Mwao's massively powerful monk at low levels, just to play a monk.

What's your favored build that you've never used?

Oddly enough, Monk's really the area where most of the outcomes leave me unhappy in actual play. I want to play one, but nothing is quite interesting enough. And this is likely to an extent because I see the outcomes and what they do, so I feel no one will be surprised by them.

That my builds do something weird while still being strongly useful is really important to me. Without being overpowered. Tends to be a balancing act that for me at least, Monk consistently fails.

[Dimers]

I'm intrigued by this concept in particular. Do you have a build mapped out? Is this one that doesn't come together until Paragon?

Speaker for the Dead is pretty good as far as that goes. It's playable from level 1 but you get more special stuff as you level up, with the last unique thing coming at 11th. Instead, the build has metagame issues. It lets you use much more divination magic than 4e usually has, and for better or for worse, that can change the feel of a whole campaign. And between deva 1000 memories, shaman speak with spirits and Dusk Oracle predicted outcome, you can crush a lot of skill challenges even untrained. So address that kind of metagame change in "session zero".

Spoiler: wall o' text

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Deva, stalker spirit shaman, high Int and Wis. Fluff the shaman powers as necromancy, calling the spirits of the dead to do your will. Your healing draws death out of a creature rather than putting in wellness.

Occultist theme gives tome implement proficiency, and Tome Expertise works great (for the whole team!) with shaman's SC. The theme's level 6 utility power is one of those unusual-for-4e divinations. And the level 10 feature fits the necromancer motif just fine, using secret knowledge to bend otherworldly creatures to your will.

Add in witch wizard MC for augury, another offbeat divination. You can also take Learned Spellcaster to leverage your Int, Wis, race, theme and skill-boosting powers to perform high quality rituals. And the wizard MC feats let you spend another feat for a familiar. I use the specter, partly for flavor, partly because it makes a great scout. I also prefer to present the shaman himself as a cold and heartless bastard while playing the specter familiar as much more pleasant to spend time with. "He knows stuff, sure, but he's creepy -- we only keep him around for the ghosts, who are actually FUN."

Dusk Oracle PP gives a speak-with-dead kind of ability at 11th, a general and strong skill booster at 12th, and at 16th some ability to ignore resistance with CA ... which you'll almost always have due to Tome Expertise.

Soul of the World ED works well with the motif and mechanics. If you choose wizard as your semi-class, you can also take feats related to its powers since you already MCed to the actual class.

There aren't any really standout feats, powers or items. In fact, as a leader class, you're well advised to base your choices on what works for your party. I like Sight of the Familiar paragon feat to go with the specter for this build though. It improves your little ghostly buddy's scouting ability and fits the concept of "eldritch powers revealing info".

[darkbard]

Thanks, Dimers! I'll tinker around in the builder with this when I get a chance.

[darkbard]

Just out of curiosity (without having had time to look at the moving parts), why Stalker Shaman over, say Elementalist Shaman for SftD above?

[Dimers]

Two reasons. The elemental shaman gets extra benefits from removing their SC, which makes play more complex, lessens the value of Tome Expertise and some dailies, introduces extra complexity, and prevents the SC from interfering with enemies. The other reason is the high-quality riders and at-will power for stalker shaman. They get some krazy stuff with high Intelligence ... lots of support due to stalker being in the class's first book.

[Highfeather]

In addition, if you're in Paragon and have Nimble Spirit, a Stalker can still grab all the Elemental Spirit powers.
Elemental still has good feats (like the Int THP on a minor action spirit summon and the +1 to attack to enemies adjacent to your SC when it disappears), but I just love the Stalker Boon to pieces. +Stat damage for all your allies against bloodied enemies (so roughly half of the time) beats the crap out of the static +2 to saves the Elemental Boon gives you.

As for builds I have wanted to play, there are far too many since I love creating characters.

Off the top of my head, a build that I'd love to play is a Werebear Brawler Fighter, using Genasi and Extra Damage tricks (ahem, Claw Gloves) to basically turn Slash and Pummel into Twin Strike-lite. Alternative version could be an Eladrin for Sarifal Feywarden and MC/Hybrid Swordmage with Eladrin Swordmage Advance + Opportunist's Rend/Trip-Up for a more nova-centric build, though it loses some of the flavour.

Another is a Bard|Warlock using a Wand of Thunderous Anguish and the Elemental Pact boon for Vulnerable 10 Thunder against a cursed enemy, then stacking Sword of Hestavar on top of that. Magic Weapon does what now? Fun part is that this can go in so many directions. Both Con/Cha and Int/Cha are possible. 13 Strength for Chainmail and buy back the Virtue of Valor to go War Chanter (though the E11 is useless without a weapon). Taxi using Evermeet Warlock. Take heavy control powers from both sides and become strong secondary (or even primary) controller. Or just go full Warlock striker with a heal, using double-tap powers to take advantage of the vulnerability whilst also increasing ally damage.

Both builds still have annoying weaknesses though. The Fighter does not really have any ranged or mobility options (aside from the hybrid Swordmage variant), and the build concept for the Bard|Warlock gets screwed over by Thunder resistance, most notably the Variable resistance all demons get.

[Excession]

A couple of funny builds, mostly I like them for the image, but I think they could work mechanically as well:

Tex "Rawhide" McCow, the dual whip wielding tempest fighter minotaur. On the up side, I'm dual wielding reach weapons, on the downside that doesn't really do as much mechanically as I would like.

A pixie barbarian, built to optimise charging. Famously (to himself) know as "the bullet with dragonfly wings". Zipping all over the place smashing everything and everyone, while being 6 inches tall. Would technically need a custom feat in order to wield his oversized ego

[Dimers]

Would technically need a custom feat in order to wield his oversized ego

But hey, that's what a racial bonus to Charisma is for, right?

Tex "Rawhide" McCow, the dual whip wielding tempest fighter minotaur. On the up side, I'm dual wielding reach weapons, on the downside that doesn't really do as much mechanically as I would like.

Which reminds me of my gnome adventurer dual-wielding a whip and hand crossbow, with skill training in History and Dungeoneering -- an Indiana Jones clone, of course. Why a Gnome? Because I'd name him "Alaska Jones" ... get it? gnome Alaska? ...

And I've got another silly one to mention once I get back to my home computer.

[masteraleph]

A pixie barbarian, built to optimise charging. Famously (to himself) know as "the bullet with dragonfly wings". Zipping all over the place smashing everything and everyone, while being 6 inches tall. Would technically need a custom feat in order to wield his oversized ego

I love this idea. Alternatively, Beastmaster Ranger Pixie riding a Raptor and using a Lance.

Tex "Rawhide" McCow, the dual whip wielding tempest fighter minotaur. On the up side, I'm dual wielding reach weapons, on the downside that doesn't really do as much mechanically as I would like.

I feel like you need to convince the DM to let you use the original version of the Whip (which was originally in the Flail group rather than its own separate group). It just works so well- "yeehaw!" and flinging enemies everywhere.

Alternative version could be an Eladrin for Sarifal Feywarden and MC/Hybrid Swordmage with Eladrin Swordmage Advance + Opportunist's Rend/Trip-Up for a more nova-centric build, though it loses some of the flavour.

It's not Brawler, but the Fighter|SM I mentioned in the original post works sort of like that. Starts with a 17/10/13+2/15+2/10/8 array, MCs into Monk with Master of the Fist. Take Rain of Blows at 3, Opportunist's Rend at 7 for 5 attacks without an AP, using a Ki Focus. Takes a Rhythm Blade Short Sword in one hand, Monk Unarmed Strike for the other, and HT for Tempest Technique, so the AC isn't utterly terrible, and you get that +1 to attack/+2 to damage regularly.

[Dimers]

And I've got another silly one to mention once I get back to my home computer.

Warren Warburton, warforged warden|warlord/warlock, PP Warforged Juggernaut, ED Warmaster, theme Iron Wolf Warrior, background warsmith. Completely fouling up the way Eberron is supposed to operate, he takes the Mark of Warding feat. Weapon should be either warpick or dwarven waraxe, and he'll ride either a warthog or a warg.

Strangely, it's good enough to function. Strength primary, Charisma secondary, hybrid feat for armor, and if you feel like pursuing warlock attacks, you can use a pact blade wrist razor as an implement. The theme and paragon path go together well. Silly but not horrible.

[tiornys]

Warren Warburton

This warrants a hefty groan from the audience. Well played, if somewhat warped.

[darkbard]

This warrants a hefty groan from the audience. Well played, if somewhat warped.

As a big fan of fantasy artist Wayne Reynolds, whose signature is WAR, and statistical analysis of baseball, including the composite measure of Wins above Replacement (player), or WAR, I wholeheartedly concur!

[Dimers]

... somewhat warped.

I'm well aware of it. I did warn you that it'd be silly.

[masteraleph]

Warren Warburton, warforged warden|warlord/warlock, PP Warforged Juggernaut, ED Warmaster, theme Iron Wolf Warrior, background warsmith. Completely fouling up the way Eberron is supposed to operate, he takes the Mark of Warding feat. Weapon should be either warpick or dwarven waraxe, and he'll ride either a warthog or a warg.

Strangely, it's good enough to function. Strength primary, Charisma secondary, hybrid feat for armor, and if you feel like pursuing warlock attacks, you can use a pact blade wrist razor as an implement. The theme and paragon path go together well. Silly but not horrible.

Would you play it in an Eberron adapted Scales of War campaign?

[Dimers]

Would you play it in an Eberron adapted Scales of War campaign?

I'd be wary of making that adaptation, myself, but I'd love to play in it -- the campaign is award-winning quality.

I changed my mind about his favored weapon -- it should be a tulwar. Other little details: Warren Warburton is dusky in color (you might say swarthy), and he lives in a warehouse on a wharf.

[MwaO]

Warren Warburton, warforged warden|warlord/warlock, PP Warforged Juggernaut, ED Warmaster, theme Iron Wolf Warrior, background warsmith. Completely fouling up the way Eberron is supposed to operate, he takes the Mark of Warding feat. Weapon should be either warpick or dwarven waraxe, and he'll ride either a warthog or a warg.

Strangely, it's good enough to function. Strength primary, Charisma secondary, hybrid feat for armor, and if you feel like pursuing warlock attacks, you can use a pact blade wrist razor as an implement. The theme and paragon path go together well. Silly but not horrible.

I've played around with that one, though the too much War put a halt to it. You can also go Str/Con then Warden|Warlock, MC Warlord via the great Resourceful Leader+Bravura Leader feats.

[Kurald Galain]

Speaking of the warwarwarwar build, how about the vampire vampire vampire vampire? Or the ninja pirate zombie robot? I think there was a decent build for both on these boards somewhere...

[Borris]

There's a githzerai avenger I wanted to try, but I found myself playing only in Forgotten Realms and Eberron games where planar stuff didn't quite fit. Still hoping for an eventual 4e Planescape campaign.

[Dimers]

There's a githzerai avenger I wanted to try ...

Details, please?

[masteraleph]

Not Borris, obviously, but Githzerai Avengers are very strong. Their racial weapon feat gives Fullblade proficiency and a +2/3/4 feat bonus to damage, which is phenomenal on an Avenger. Iron Mind is a pretty strong racial power, and it has a couple of interesting feats to boost it- Dakshai's Body-Mind Union lets you expend it for an immediate save with a +5 bonus vs. any Save Ends effect, and your racial bonus adds another 2 if it's dazed, dominated, or stunned. MC monk (unusual, but not terribly odd) lets you pick up Zuoken's Centering, which lets you base Strength checks, Athletics checks, HP totals and Healing Surges on Wisdom instead of Str/Con. There are also some interesting shifting/avoid OA/etc. powers too.

[Dimers]

Not Borris, obviously, but Githzerai Avengers are very strong. Their racial weapon feat gives Fullblade proficiency and a +2/3/4 feat bonus to damage, which is phenomenal on an Avenger. Iron Mind is a pretty strong racial power, and it has a couple of interesting feats to boost it- Dakshai's Body-Mind Union lets you expend it for an immediate save with a +5 bonus vs. any Save Ends effect, and your racial bonus adds another 2 if it's dazed, dominated, or stunned. MC monk (unusual, but not terribly odd) lets you pick up Zuoken's Centering, which lets you base Strength checks, Athletics checks, HP totals and Healing Surges on Wisdom instead of Str/Con. There are also some interesting shifting/avoid OA/etc. powers too.

My interest stems from a particular build I made a while back.

Spoiler: Spoilered so as to not conflict with incoming info.

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The setup only took off around 12th level or so. It'd be ridiculously fragile in heroic tier, and it's feat-hungry to glue all the pieces together.

Let's see, it was githzerai avenger|assaultmage/monk. Used Wisdom for lots of stuff it doesn't normally cover including initiative and the things you mentioned. The theme was ... ugh, what's the name, the apprentice one that gives you argent rain, more importantly the one that gives access to wizard utilities* ... I used herbal healing to trigger second wind stuff as a minor action, letting me shift because githzerai. Handy for an avenger. Used relatively little swordmage except to try to get more attacks, but it also provided that space-twisting interrupt power -- very strong and melded right into the PP. Which was storvakal, not normally something to get excited about, but it let me use Power Attack without the accuracy penalty, a free +6 damage in paragon and +9 in epic.

*EDIT: Order Adept, I think.

[Borris]

It was indeed a githzerai avenger MC monk storvakal with a fullblade, Power Attack, and Zuoken's Centering. A bit hazy on the rest, but I know I have it as a text file somewhere.

[Dimers]

Well, you know what they say, great minds think alike