Help me optimizing a Character idea

[Shadoo]

Hey there my first topic btw :>

I have this character idea about a typical Supporter. First I want to tell you what the idea is and what problems I encountered and ask you how to solve these.

The idea is gameplay wise to be in second line casting buffs and heals for my team and debuffs or cc for the enemy while being pretty much useless on my own. Not a fighter at all in fact not even able to lift a weapon.

For personality I created a religious fanatic/Inquisitor who sincerely believes he is a good guy while attacking anyone not following him. The reason for this is I dont like the typical super friendly guy who justs wants to help. I want an evil Supporter. For race I thought of a human or an (high)elf typical self-righteous "superiour" races not half elf though. I guess such a character is considered a lawful evil since I always find characters like Claude Frollo or Dolores Umbridge as examples for this alignment.

For skills I prefer social skills. Intimidation and Persuasion(threatening people with hell), Investigation and Insight(to find hiding "sinners") and of course Religion. Im not interested in Stealth, Animal Handling or anything.

Now my first guess was of course the (Life)Cleric. But I didnt like having heavy armor and a melee weapon. Of course I could simply not use these but I dont want to make my character weaker on purpose. Next I took a look at the Bard. Light armor seemed fine but using an instrument as a focus felt wrong. Using Charisma helps a lot cause of the skills im interested in so maybe multiclass? For spells as I said I like typical support spells: Cure Wounds, Restoration, Bless... but also debuffs like hold person. Or something that really fits the Inquisitor theme like Zone of Truth.

As for Attributes I am interested in of course the main attribute for my spells and also Charisma for the skills I need. Religion needing Intelligence is another problem. I am fine with having all other stats low.

So I mainly ask about which classes or multiclasses could optimize this idea and which spells seem fitting? Or maybe something completely different I missed.

[KorvinStarmast]

The idea is gameplay wise to be in second line casting buffs and heals for my team and debuffs or cc for the enemy while being pretty much useless on my own. Not a fighter at all in fact not even able to lift a weapon.

For personality I created a religious fanatic/Inquisitor who sincerely believes he is a good guy while attacking anyone not following him. The reason for this is I dont like the typical super friendly guy who just wants to help. I want an evil Supporter. For race I thought of a human or an (high)elf typical self-righteous "superior" races(not half elf). I guess such a character is considered a lawful evil since I always find characters like Claude Frollo or Dolores Umbridge as examples for this alignment.

For skills I prefer social skills. Intimidation and Persuasion(threatening people with hell), Investigation and Insight(to find hiding "sinners") and of course Religion. Im not interested in Stealth, Animal Handling or anything.

Now my first guess was of course the (Life)Cleric. But I didnt like having heavy armor and a melee weapon. Of course I could simply not use these but I dont want to make my character weaker on purpose. Next I took a look at the Bard. Light armor seemed fine but using an instrument as a focus felt wrong. Using Charisma helps a lot cause of the skills im interested in so maybe multiclass? For spells as I said I like typical support spells: Cure Wounds, Restoration, Bless... but also debuffs like hold person. Or something that really fits the Inquisitor theme like Zone of Truth.

As for Attributes I am interested in of course the main attribute for my spells and also Charisma for the skills I need. Religion needing Intelligence is another problem. I am fine with having all other stats low.

So I mainly ask about which classes or multiclasses could optimize this idea and which spells seem fitting? Or maybe something completely different I missed.

Suggest Cleric, Trickery Domain, or Arcana Domain (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide).

Bard (lore bard has many great features) would be very cool, you can use a kazoo as your magical weapon focus. Or a small instrument like a piccolo or recorder or pipe.

Take another look at Wizard of you want to go buff / debuff, or go for Druid if you want CC.

[Man_Over_Game]

You want someone frail, who has very few combat options, who bosses people around and casts a ton of support abilities.

I'd say go Divine Soul Sorcerer, for these reasons:

• Has the smallest hit die of any character.
• Has the least combat proficiencies of any character.
• Has the most buff support in the game.
• Uses Charisma as its casting stat, useful for the skills you're interested in.
• Has access to Cleric spells.
• Literally is a Chosen One for a god, perfect for a self-righteous magical judge.

Perhaps he thinks he was chosen by a Good god, but was really chosen by a god of Chaos.

[RogueJK]

Bard doesn't have to use an instrument as a focus. They can use a spell component pouch like any other caster. They just have the option for an instrument for flavor reasons, and to allow them to cast spells while holding/playing their instrument.

Besides, not all Bards use instruments. You could be an actor, dancer, gladiator, gymnast, poet, orator, storyteller, jester, debater, philosopher, etc...

[Rukelnikov]

With Lore Bard "Cunning Words" IS pretty much shouting at people. I refluffed it on mine to be basically shouting "DODGE!" at my allies when they were attacked, also Vicious Mockery is pretty much trash talking.

Personally I think the Domain that fits the better is the Order domain, you said you consider the character to be fanatically Lawful, inquisitor like, and socially aggressive, Order domain's list of spells is:

1st command, heroism
3rd hold person, zone of truth
5th mass healing word, slow
7th compulsion, locate creature
9th commune, dominate person

Its pretty mach nail on, and has the offensive feature of granting an ally to attack as a reaction when you cast a slotted spell on them.

[Unoriginal]

For personality I created a religious fanatic/Inquisitor who sincerely believes he is a good guy while attacking anyone not following him.

Won't he get shot dead only a little bit after getting into any settlement, with that attitude?

[Ventruenox]

This character concept cries out Lore Bard to me. The MTG: Innistrad Plane Shift supplement introduced an Inquisitor background that also fits the bill. Using a staff or other arcane focus instead of an instrument is perfectly acceptable. Having Expertise in those social/investigative skills will also be a boon.

As others have stated, Cutting Words and Vicious Mockery are the go-to abilities. You can fluff them however you want. I've seen the gamut from "Yo momma" jokes to social justice warrior slam poetry being used to RP in battle. You get the buff spells. You get debuff spells. Your primary stat works with your social skills. You aren't a primary damage dealer, but that's part and parcel with your character concept.

[Benny89]

For Pure backline healersupport I would go for something like: Life Cleric 1/Druid 1/Divine Soul Sorcerer 18

Variant Human: 8, 14, 14, 8, 13, 16

Class Progress:

Start with Divine Soul Sorc to grab Melee Cantrip and proficiency in CON. I would start with RES (WIS) to not be disabled as support or With War Caster to cast with Shield.

Then I would take 1 level in Life Cleric for Medium Armor and Shields then 1 level in Druid for Goodberries. Then continue with Divine Soul Sorcerer. So you go like 1 level Divine Sorcerer/1 Level Life Cleric/1 Druid/17 Divine Soul Sorcerer

Gains:

So on level 3 you will have: Medium Armor, Shield, Con prof and WIS prof/or War Caster.

You will also have Goodberries that will heal for 4 points EACH goodberry. Just calculate how many goodberries you can make each day before long rest and how much that is HP returned.

You have Bless, Goodberries, Shield of Faith, Sanctuary, Healing Word.

You are already a huge support on level 2 and 3. It only gets better later with Divine Sorcerer giving you access to Metamagic and support-combos like twin: Healing Word, Sanctuary, Haste, Heal, Death Ward, Revive, Holy Weapon etc. etc. You can quicken healing spells, twin them and so on. You have access to mass CC spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Spirit Guardians, Mass Suggestion, Silence and so on.

And you supply team constantly with Overpowered Goodberries that can heal your party between encounters easy.

Rest of ASI. Level 6: +2 CHA. Level 10: +2 CHA. Level 14: Inspiring Leader. Level 18: whatever you want.

You could also dip later 1 level of Hexblade for SAD CHA, though I don't see you going for combat build with this.

[Man_Over_Game]

[...] Now my first guess was of course the (Life)Cleric. But I didnt like having heavy armor and a melee weapon. Of course I could simply not use these but I dont want to make my character weaker on purpose.[...]

Let's not forget about this, guys.

[KorvinStarmast]

You want someone frail, who has very few combat options, who bosses people around and casts a ton of support abilities. I'd say go Divine Soul Sorcerer, for these reasons:

• Has the smallest hit die of any character.
• Has the least combat proficiencies of any character.
• Has the most buff support in the game.
• Uses Charisma as its casting stat, useful for the skills you're interested in.
• Has access to Cleric spells.
• Literally is a Chosen One for a god, perfect for a self-righteous magical judge.

Perhaps he thinks he was chosen by a Good god, but was really chosen by a god of Chaos.

Applause. Good call.

Won't he get shot dead only a little bit after getting into any settlement, with that attitude?

Sure, but these theory crafting threads I suspect rarely get put into actual play.

With Lore Bard "Cunning Words" IS pretty much shouting at people. I refluffed it on mine to be basically shouting "DODGE!" at my allies when they were attacked, also Vicious Mockery is pretty much trash talking.
Personally I think the Domain that fits the better is the Order domain, you said you consider the character to be fanatically Lawful, inquisitor like, and socially aggressive, Order domain's list of spells is:

1. 1st command, heroism
2. 3rd hold person, zone of truth
3. 5th mass healing word, slow
4. 7th compulsion, locate creature
5. 9th commune, dominate person

Its pretty mach nail on, and has the offensive feature of granting an ally to attack as a reaction when you cast a slotted spell on them.

Some day, I suppose I'll get the Ravnica guide. Order cleric seems to be quite the option.

[Rhedyn]

"You can inspire others through stirring words or music."

"You can use a musical instrument (see "Equipment") as a Spellcasting focus for your Bard Spells." - spell component pouch also an option

"Beginning at 2nd level, you can use soothing music or oration to help revitalize your wounded allies during a Short Rest."

"you gain the ability to use musical notes or words of power to disrupt mind-influencing Effects"

Lore Bards do not require a musical instrument or musical ability. That sounds more in-line with what you want. Not using your musical instrument proficiencies hardly make you weaker.

[Man_Over_Game]

Some day, I suppose I'll get the Ravnica guide. Order cleric seems to be quite the option.

Here it is in a nutshell:

Martial weapons and armor proficiency, as well as Intimidation or Persuasion.

Level 1: Casting spells on allies lets them spend a reaction to attack someone of your choosing.

Level 2, Channel Divinity: Action, choose any creatures within 30 feet. On a Wisdom save fail, they are charmed by you until the end of your next turn or when taking damage, and you can demand that they drop what they're holding when they initially fail.

Level 6: Usable up to your Wisdom Modifier per Long Rest, when spending a spell slot for an Enchantment spell with a 1 action casting time, you can change it to a Bonus Action casting time.

Level 8, Divine Strike: Deals 1d8 Psychic Damage.

Level 14: Your Divine Strike curses an enemy, causing the next attack from someone who's not you to deal an extra 2d8 damage, which ends the curse. Only one enemy can be cursed, and it lasts until the end of your next turn.

[Shadoo]

Whoa so many replies in that amount of time Im impressed.

Now Ive read Sorcerer and Bard a lot but I still think I only lose power which is not the idea.

Life Cleric grants me a nice buff to my healing spells and a channel divinity that can replenish health even when I am out of spell slots. Having Wisdom saving throws is also a nice touch.

The armor I dont want but if I pick another class it should grant me enough advantages to counterbalance the healing + wisdom save + armor. After all I want to optimize things not sacrificing power for flavours sake.

So having Charisma as main stat sure is an advantage. Expertise, Bardic Inspiration or Metamagic is okay I guess but I still think Life Cleric is better.

It also seems Cleric already has the best spells for my idea.

Are there maybe some Bard or Sorcerer Spells that are overwhelming and still fit the theme? Some stronger buffs than Bless a better cc than hold person maybe completely mind control an enemy? Offensive spells are okay aswell I thought of Sacred Flame since it has Radiant damage.

[Man_Over_Game]

Whoa so many replies in that amount of time Im impressed.

Now Ive read Sorcerer and Bard a lot but I still think I only lose power which is not the idea.

Life Cleric grants me a nice buff to my healing spells and a channel divinity that can replenish health even when I am out of spell slots. Having Wisdom saving throws is also a nice touch.

The armor I dont want but if I pick another class it should grant me enough advantages to counterbalance the healing + wisdom save + armor. After all I want to optimize things not sacrificing power for flavours sake.

So having Charisma as main stat sure is an advantage. Expertise, Bardic Inspiration or Metamagic is okay I guess but I still think Life Cleric is better.

It also seems Cleric already has the best spells for my idea.

Are there maybe some Bard or Sorcerer Spells that are overwhelming and still fit the theme? Some stronger buffs than Bless a better cc than hold person maybe completely mind control an enemy? Offensive spells are okay aswell I thought of Sacred Flame since it has Radiant damage.

I'm not sure what you mean by your second line. What do you mean you think you only lose power by being a Bard or Sorcerer?

[Shadoo]

I'm not sure what you mean by your second line. What do you mean you think you only lose power by being a Bard or Sorcerer?

Huh? I mean what the whole reply said: Overall Life Cleric still seems to be the best choice which is sad.

In other words: Do Sorcerer and Bard have some more advantages I missed?

[Man_Over_Game]

Huh? I mean what the whole reply said: Overall Life Cleric still seems to be the best choice which is sad.

In other words: Do Sorcerer and Bard have some more advantages I missed?

There's a few.

Sorcerers can double concentration spells, like Haste or Enhance Ability, and this is also expanded by the Divine Soul having access to Cleric spells, like Shield of Faith or Protection From Good/Evil.

Sorcerers also start with proficiency into Constitution Saving Throws, which also applies to Concentration Checks. That's effectively a +4 average bonus to maintain those Concentration spells.

Not to mention the Divine Soul Sorcerer gains a +5 to a failed Saving Throw every Short Rest (which can be applied to Concentration Checks), and it also can empower any healing to himself or adjacent allies regardless of the source. As an added bonus, if you still want to use Bless, you can.


However, despite all of this, there is one subtle thing that a lot of people miss: Subtle Spell. You can now cast a spell without anyone even recognizing that you did. When you Command them to Sit!, as far as anyone can tell, they just obeyed you out of sheer force of will.

[Azgeroth]

healing is redundant in 5e. 1hp is as effective as 100hp. you heal people when they hit 0.

go bard, BI is a lot better than a bonus to healing.

also, a bard can heal, is 100% a support class, not martial, and is charismatic..

a cleric, is also a support caster, with a decent bit of blast, and decent martial prowess, but is not itself charismatic.


bard ticks more boxes than cleric, DS Sorc is also good, as meta magic distant/twin/subtle can you let you do an awful lot of buff/debuff shenanigans no one else can.

[Shadoo]

There's a few.

Sorcerers can double concentration spells,

Hmm they can? I cant find anything like that. It sure would be an advantage.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hmm they can? I cant find anything like that. It sure would be an advantage.

They can twin Concentration spells that normally target a single creature using their Twinned Spell metamagic. A common strategy is a Sorcerer twinning Haste, so that two combatants on their team get an extra attack. That's +2 attacks each turn.

[Shadoo]

Ahhh two targets for one concentration spell ok I thought 2 concentration spells at once like Bane + Bless for example.

Well its still good.

[Man_Over_Game]

Ahhh two targets for one concentration spell ok I thought 2 concentration spells at once like Bane + Bless for example.

Well its still good.

One particularly nice thing about it is how friggin' efficient it is.

To Twin a level 1 spell, like Shield of Faith, costs 1 Sorcery Point.
To create a level 1 spell out of Sorcery points costs 2 points.

Basically, twinning a spell not only allows you to double the effectiveness of a Concentration spell, but it also does so at a cost that's less than one spell. You get to double the power of a spell for half the cost of a spell.

Or roughly 200% effectiveness for 150% of the cost.

[Shadoo]

Ok you've convinced me.

Now please help me a little more. I am about to play a level 4 character in a group of 4(including myself) most of them melees.

The idea is the same but I need help with the details:

Pure Sorcerer or maybe a point in bard so I get Inspiratin and more important can do rituals? Then again I want the real fun spells asap.

And most importantly what Spells are really good and fitting the theme? I already tried to find some but there are soo many and I only have 5 spells, if I do pure sorc.

You already named (twin) Haste, I like (twin) Hold Person / Beast I thought about heightened aswell if I REALLY want to get one particular npc.

Later I like Dominate Person / Beast it seems perfect for Inquisitor.

Still using Bless? Or is this obsolete since I can only concentrate on one spell anyway?

Cure wounds or any other healing spell? I've heard many times dnd e5 doesnt have the classic healer role but I still want at least some healing after all it was the core idea.

And since I lost my armor and some hp I need something for protection whats the point of buffing 2 of my mates with haste when an enemy just rushes to me knocking me out. I like sanctuary it seems fitting gameplay and flavour wise.

[Particle_Man]

Acolyte background for flavour on the sorcerer. Maybe high elf for the extra cantrip and the arrogance. Inspiring Leader feat seems thematically appropriate. Ritual caster feat lets you do rituals without multiclassing.

[RogueJK]

Maybe high elf for the extra cantrip and the arrogance.

Variant High Half Elf would be a better choice than High Elf, if you want the extra cantrip. High Elf gets +2 DEX and +1 INT, neither of which are a Bard's/Sorcerer's primary stat. Where as Half Elf would get you +2 to CHA (primary stat) and +1 to two other stats.

Either way, this racial cantrip would still be INT-based, so it would need to be a utility cantrip, not an attack cantrip, since you'll be focusing on CHA.


A better option if you want an extra cantrip is one of the Tiefling Variants. They get +2 CHA and +1 to another stat, plus a cantrip and two other racial spells. And these three racial spells are CHA-based.

[Shadoo]

Ehh Tiefling does not work at all. In fact that is what my character would actively hunt.

Its pretty much settled I will be human with inspiring leader. I mainly ask about class and spells.

[Man_Over_Game]

Ok you've convinced me.

Now please help me a little more. I am about to play a level 4 character in a group of 4(including myself) most of them melees.

The idea is the same but I need help with the details:

Pure Sorcerer or maybe a point in bard so I get Inspiratin and more important can do rituals? Then again I want the real fun spells asap.

And most importantly what Spells are really good and fitting the theme? I already tried to find some but there are soo many and I only have 5 spells, if I do pure sorc.

You already named (twin) Haste, I like (twin) Hold Person / Beast I thought about heightened aswell if I REALLY want to get one particular npc.

Later I like Dominate Person / Beast it seems perfect for Inquisitor.

Still using Bless? Or is this obsolete since I can only concentrate on one spell anyway?

Cure wounds or any other healing spell? I've heard many times dnd e5 doesnt have the classic healer role but I still want at least some healing after all it was the core idea.

And since I lost my armor and some hp I need something for protection whats the point of buffing 2 of my mates with haste when an enemy just rushes to me knocking me out. I like sanctuary it seems fitting gameplay and flavour wise.

A few spells you'll want to look at for the concept:

Healing Word, Command, Guiding Bolt. For defense on yourself, make sure to have Shield and maybe Mage Armor. If you feel like you need some more spells known, or you need to improve your sustainability, consider packing a level into Bard or Warlock.