Creating a Steppe/Mongolian style Horse Archer

[Bellin878]

Hello vast and knowledgeable folk. Usually, when it comes to making tRPG characters, I find it pretty easy to make something solid based on the ideas I have, but this time I'm stumped when it comes to marrying mechanics and concept.

I want to make a Steppe Horse Archer, someone who specializes on fighting with a bow from horseback. A couple of caveats/points of order

1. They don't need to be 100% optimized or competitive. This table isn't on a super high end of the power curve when it comes to character creation. But...
2. They can't be complete garbage either. More on this below, regarding horses, but they at least need to be able to contribute in the difficulty level of an official premade adventure, such as HotDQ or PotA. I'm aware that the horse won't be coming into most dungeons, I'll make due there.
3. I'd rather they have little to no emphasis on magic, especially arcane magic. Things like Arcane Archer, E. Knight, Paladin, etc. just don't flavor well for what I want. Ranger might be okay. I could possibly reflavor things, but I'd prefer not to.
4. I'd prefer to keep it as a (Variant, likely) human for setting reasons.
5. I'm limited to published material (no UA), but can use any number of books, and have access to all of them.

My single biggest issue with this is the mount. I can't find a way to ride anything other than a stock Monster Manual War Horse or Riding Horse, who will simply die the first time something looks at it funny with an AOE spell. Mounted Combatant can help mitigate that for single target spells, but the first Fireball has a reasonably high chance of killing it. If I had a way to bump it's dexterity save, I'd feel better, but I just can't find one.

I drafted this character as a Beastmaster Ranger initially, before I realized that you are restricted to Medium size for the animal companion. That would allow its hit points and saves to scale, even if the CR limits me to a Riding Horse. I might approach the subject with the DM either way, but for now I'm assuming that this idea is out.

So I'm at a loss. Short of just going Fighter X (probably Champion or Battle Master), and hoping my Warhorse doesn't get blown up in AOE, I don't know what to do. Mounted Combatant seems like a must in this case, even if the best part of it is limited to melee. Sharpshooter helps keep my damage up. Battle Master lets me do neat tricks like Disarm, Trip, etc, while Champion just makes me a really good archer (and a bit of bonus AC eventually with the fighting style bump) But it just feels boring. The horse is very vulnerable, and I just fire off a bunch of arrows each turn.

Ranger X seems almost right, but the class abilities don't really mesh, and without being able to use a horse as my companion, only the Hunter seems like a reasonable choice. It just seems more flavorful but mechanically weaker than Fighter X. Maybe there's a blend of the two that makes sense, but I don't quite see it yet.

So, I beg thee, lend me your ideas. How can I keep my precious horse alive? How do I stay relevant as we progress without just being a regular archer who also has a horse for flavor?

[Azgeroth]

how about fighter : Cavalier?

[Aett_Thorn]

Well, you could go Fighter 1 (or 2 for action surge), then go Ancients Paladin the rest of the way. Would require a 13 Str, but would otherwise work. Your mount would get a bonus to their saving throws, and then resistance to any magical damage it took, giving it more lasting power. At higher levels, you can summon better mounts, too.

[CheddarChampion]

Sounds like this isn't an AL game, so you might be able to ask your DM to help you out.
(Not the answer you wanted, I know.)
You could ask for a riding horse for a ranger, or for 3-4 extra hp for your horse per character level.
If that fails try a Dex-paladin (Ancients) single class - OotA tends to be the most lenient oath. Don't even have to be religious!
10/16/14/10/10/14
Find (greater) steed, aid, maybe inspiring leader for a horse with plenty of hp.
Mounted combatant + your auras will increase horse survivability - the feat will work with avoiding a fireball btw.
Max Dex and sharpshooter (maybe with advantage) won't be terrible damage for sure.

[Man_Over_Game]

Some sort of Paladin would work best, as you can replace your steed as needed. The best ranged combatant for Paladins, hands down, is the Devotion Paladin. Not only can you enchant a melee or ranged weapon to have an increased hit chance, but you also have plenty of powerful auras and Concentration spells that synergize well for a paladin who stays in the middle of the team.

Redemption Paladin is also an option, as you can absorb damage on your horse's behalf and protect it with Sanctuary or similar abilities. Crown does well at healing and absorbing damage for your Horse, but it mostly relies on melee combat.

Assuming you're completely ignoring the entire Paladin concept, the Valor Bard would do well, using Find Greater Steed at higher levels for a powerful ranged combatant. This synergizes well with Inspiring Leader, which would grant some extra HP to your horse, and the lower hit die of a Bard won't mean much as a ranged combatant.



Lastly, if you want the best possible non-magical build that I can think of, Battlemaster is going to be your best bet. Not only do most of the maneuvers work with ranged combat, but you can also Rally your horse to give it an extra 5 or so HP, which counts as an effective 10 damage when combined with Mounted Combatant for the sake of blocking Fireballs.

To use the most of your mount (Which is the ability to safely shoot close-ranged shots), I'd recommend Crossbow Expert. Anything else is just redundant, as there will be very little reason a ranged combatant will need so much excessive mobility.

[Haydensan]

If you feel like talking to your DM about allowing certain stuff. The various fighting styles as half-feats (+1 to Dex or Str) go a long way to helping this style.

[Yunru]

You could play a small race to use a Beastmaster mount (which'd also be dungeon compatible), or depending on your level multiclass Lore Bard and pick up Find Steed (although you'd probably want to have Extra Attack first).

If you've a really good friend at the table, ask them to be a Moon Druid and have them be your mount.

[Bellin878]

Thank you everyone, I'll take a closer look at OotA Paladin. I'm just concerned that they don't have Archery as a fighting style and dipping Fighter 1 means 13 Str and 13 Cha, and things like Smite are essentially wasted class features. It also feels wrong from a flavor perspective, but I can take a scalpel to that if I need to.

I also thought about the small sized character, as noted, but this culture in the setting really focuses on horses specifically and is almost universally human so I'd like to stick with that.

Someone mentioned Cavalier, but other than fast mounting and staying astride, it feels like that is almost 100% a melee oriented set of skills so I'm not sure how effective it'd be.

Maybe I'm worrying too much about the horse's suitability in general. If the DM is against allowing a Horse for BM Ranger (they're new to DMing so I don't want to drop a bunch of weird things on them right away), I may just roll the fighter and go with it, and buy some backup horses just in case.

If you've a really good friend at the table, ask them to be a Moon Druid and have them be your mount.

If only...

[Grod_The_Giant]

You could ride a mule as a Beastmaster. That's almost a horse. You could also look at stuff like Inspiring Leader to boost your mount's temporarily hit points.

[Yunru]

I also thought about the small sized character, as noted, but this culture in the setting really focuses on horses specifically and is almost universally human so I'd like to stick with that.

You could probably get away with a Halfling reskined as a dwarf (the non-fantasy kind).

[JackPhoenix]

You could ride a mule as a Beastmaster. That's almost a horse. You could also look at stuff like Inspiring Leader to boost your mount's temporarily hit points.

Kinda fits, as mongolian horses were pretty small and build less for strength than western breeds.

[Diebo]

"this culture in the setting really focuses on horses specifically and is almost universally human so I'd like to stick with that."

If your horse dies, do what a Mongolian would do: just take another! Horses are the focus of the setting. Don't get too attached to any one.

Consider a Kensai Monk, mounted combatant and sharpshooter feats, rest in attributes (dex/wisdom). Decent wisdom for animal handling. You can deflect arrows coming at you. If your horse goes down, you are good at falling. And as a Kensai, you can specialize in long bow (which I'd imagine you reflavor as a composite bow). And have decent armor from dex/wisdom.

[Man_Over_Game]

"this culture in the setting really focuses on horses specifically and is almost universally human so I'd like to stick with that."

If your horse dies, do what a Mongolian would do: just take another! Horses are the focus of the setting. Don't get too attached to any one.

Consider a Kensai Monk, mounted combatant and sharpshooter feats, rest in attributes (dex/wisdom). Decent wisdom for animal handling. You can deflect arrows coming at you. If your horse goes down, you are good at falling. And as a Kensai, you can specialize in long bow (which I'd imagine you reflavor as a composite bow). And have decent armor from dex/wisdom.

Well, the catch here is...there's no point in riding the mount. You're as fast as your horse, and you can even Bonus Action Dash in the same round that you attack (effectively the same as using a Mount that's Dashing). There's almost no reason for someone with 40+ speed to be using a mount, except for narrative reasons.

[JackPhoenix]

Well, the catch here is...there's no point in riding the mount. You're as fast as your horse, and you can even Bonus Action Dash in the same round that you attack (effectively the same as using a Mount that's Dashing). There's almost no reason for someone with 40+ speed to be using a mount, except for narrative reasons.

"Oh crap, it's the horde of not-Mongol horsemen! And one guy that runs really fast!"

[Ganymede]

Be a martial class and use a bow and a horse. That part is easy.

The hard part is in thinking up various personality traits and quirks that would reflect your quasi-Mongol upbringing, as well as coming up with a background that reflects that lifestyle.

[Yunru]

Be a martial class and use a bow and a horse. That part is easy.

How much does a horse do when fired from a bow?

[GeistInMachine]

One option could be to be a standard bow fighter, battlemaster or samurai probably, and then take Ritual Caster

Now you have a personal phantom steed that just takes 10min to resummon at the end of a fight.

100ft speed gives unparalleled mounted mobility in combat

[Ganymede]

How much does a horse do when fired from a bow?

As my prerogative as DM, I'm going to assign the full 10d10 improvised damage.

[Man_Over_Game]

One option could be to be a standard bow fighter, battlemaster or samurai probably, and then take Ritual Caster

Now you have a personal phantom steed that just takes 10min to resummon at the end of a fight.

100ft speed gives unparalleled mounted mobility in combat

Do note that Phantom Steed dies after a single point of damage.

[GeistInMachine]

It disappears over a minute due to any damage, not right away which is plenty for a combat, and its immediately replacable

[Vogie]

Do note that Phantom Steed dies after a single point of damage.

Not a problem with Mounted Combatant. However, it'd require your DM to straight up give you the Phantom Steed spell, as it's a 3rd level spell and the feat only guarantees you a pair of 1st level spells. They could create a "Phantom Pony" low-powered homebrew version of the spell ("It's exactly like a regular horse, except pops like a balloon!") if requested.

However, if you're wedded to this concept, and stuck with RAW, I'd instead use Magic Initiate: Bard or Druid for Animal Friendship, and just get yourself a horse. You'd refluff it as being not being magic, rather being really good with animals.

• For Bard, I'd choose True Strike & Vicious Mockery as Cantrips, which are instead re-fluffed as "Aiming Maneuver" and "Throwing Insults"
• For Druid, I'd choose the Shillelagh & Mending, which are re-fluffed as "Proficient in Riding Crops" and "Being Handy"

As a far second, being a small creature (refluffed as a child or dwarfish human) riding on your animal companion via Beastmaster Ranger.

[gjf2a]

Thank you everyone, I'll take a closer look at OotA Paladin. I'm just concerned that they don't have Archery as a fighting style and dipping Fighter 1 means 13 Str and 13 Cha, and things like Smite are essentially wasted class features.

With regard to smiting, an alternative is to cast Ensnaring Strike. It is a 1st level domain spell for OotA paladins. It works just as well on missile weapons as it does on melee. The damage isn't as good as smiting, but the battlefield control aspect is solid.

[Man_Over_Game]

With regard to smiting, an alternative is to cast Ensnaring Strike. It is a 1st level domain spell for OotA paladins. It works just as well on missile weapons as it does on melee. The damage isn't as good as smiting, but the battlefield control aspect is solid.

This is true. Smiting costs a resource that you could just as well spend on Find Steed, Bless, or Sanctuary (on your Horse). You are not losing a feature, just changing it into something else that you'll actually use. Now instead of being a generic melee knight that hits things really hard, you'll be a ranged specialist with an untargetable, regenerating, magical steed!

[GlenSmash!]

Fighter 1/Valor Bard X can get you Archery style, Extra attack, and Find steed. Mounted combatant Feat is great of course.

Your character can practice magic, tales, and songs passed down among your nomadic tribe for generations.

[Vogie]

With regard to smiting, an alternative is to cast Ensnaring Strike. It is a 1st level domain spell for OotA paladins. It works just as well on missile weapons as it does on melee. The damage isn't as good as smiting, but the battlefield control aspect is solid.

That's a great idea. If you didn't want to add magic, make it a sort of Green Arrow-style of Net-shot or Bola Shot.

[Yunru]

Fighter 1/Valor Bard X can get you Archery style, Extra attack, and Find steed. Mounted combatant Feat is great of course.

Your character can practice magic, tales, and songs passed down among your nomadic tribe for generations.

It wouldn't get you Find Steed until level 11 though.

[GlenSmash!]

It wouldn't get you Find Steed until level 11 though.

Quite true.

Paladin is the only class that gets both extra attack and find steed at level 5, but it doesn't come with archery fighting style, and takes 13 strength and 13 dex to multiclass into or out of, making that a pretty tall order for Dex based character.

[Bellin878]

"this culture in the setting really focuses on horses specifically and is almost universally human so I'd like to stick with that."

If your horse dies, do what a Mongolian would do: just take another! Horses are the focus of the setting. Don't get too attached to any one.

Consider a Kensai Monk, mounted combatant and sharpshooter feats, rest in attributes (dex/wisdom). Decent wisdom for animal handling. You can deflect arrows coming at you. If your horse goes down, you are good at falling. And as a Kensai, you can specialize in long bow (which I'd imagine you reflavor as a composite bow). And have decent armor from dex/wisdom.

I really appreciate everyone's ideas, but this is definitely the one that jumped out at me most once I looked into it more. Kensai weapons for Longbow and a spear or longsword (Heavy Scimitar), which seems thematically appropriate. I agree with the point that it seems kind of redundant, but I just want to do it for fun. And if I'm a monk maybe I can do silly shenanigans like stand on top of my horse's back or crazy flipping dismounts. And I can be effective in melee as a dervish with punches and stabs.

Gonna think about it more, and looking forward to any other ideas people have!

Edit: Probably with a 1 level Fighter Dip for Archery, as well!

[Tanarii]

Well, the catch here is...there's no point in riding the mount. You're as fast as your horse, and you can even Bonus Action Dash in the same round that you attack (effectively the same as using a Mount that's Dashing). There's almost no reason for someone with 40+ speed to be using a mount, except for narrative reasons.

Your bonus action would be tied up getting 1d4 extra damage per attack from Kensai's shot. Also the horse can Disengage and move without triggering OAs, so that'd avoid having to spend Ki. So there's still a benefit to being mounted, even in this particular case.

[Shuruke]

to make an archer you could do lore bard 8 fighter 12 (your choice of archetype)

Bard 6 take find steed
Bard 7 replace find steed with find greater steed
Bard 8 grab the asi or feat.

Then go fighter

Grabbing sharp shooter at 4
And using spells like enhance ability cat grace for advantage

Short bow or longbow
1d20+0 advantage to hit
At lvl 5 1d20+1 advantage
For 1d6/1d8+13

16.5-17.5 average

Fire bolt
2d10
11 average

Sure you wouldn't be keeping up with characters with multi attack but since you have 2 options you could pick things up to reinforce the archer idea.

Conjure volley since u get 2 options of secrets and this could be re flavored as you just firing a flurry of arrows

Cordon of arrows for you laying arrow traps

Just find one that you think can fit theatrically

You might have fun with earth bind for a theatrical standpoint of shooting something down from sky. Is it optimal nope could it come in handy yeah especially if you talk to DM and see if a flying enemy could get thrown in here or their.

Also don't be scared to look into reflavoring spells
Melf acid arrow as an alchemical tipped arrow

Maybe ask for minute meteors to be re flavored as you lighting arrows on fire etc.

Or you could embrace the magic and be the clans shaman
Your arrows turn to lightning smiting down enemies of your tribe

You ride a Pegasus into battle hailing arrows from above etc.
Lore bard 8 fighter 5 then 7 more bard
At bard ten pick up conjure barrage and
A re flavored flamemstrike