AD&D-style Fighter (bow and non-finesse sword)

[Willie the Duck]

Hi all, I am again trying to capture the thematic feel of an AD&D character and looking for advice/impressions. This time, it is an AD&D fighter -- one who uses a longbow and either long sword/bastard sword, or great sword. This will require both Strength and Dexterity, so I recognize I will not be winning any optimization records. The goal is playable in a reasonable game. If Elven or half-elven, a wizard or rogue multiclassing would be thematically appropriate, if anyone wants to suggest that. Rogue only for Halfling/Dwarf. I used a dice roller for stats and came up with 9,16,15,9,14,13.
*Roll(4d6)+0: 3,5,1,1,+0 Total:10 Roll(4d6)+0: 3,5,5,6,+0 Total:19 Roll(4d6)+0: 1,4,5,6,+0 Total:16 Roll(4d6)+0: 3,5,1,1,+0 Total:10 Roll(4d6)+0: 6,1,4,4,+0 Total:15 Roll(4d6)+0: 3,5,5,1,+0 Total:14
(totals are wrong because this roller does not know how to perform 4D6b3)

My initial thoughts are straight Vuman Fighter (defensive fighting style) Battlemaster (S16 D15+1 C14 I9 W13+1 Ch9) and picking up GWM, SS, and MAM by level 6, using precise shot to make either GWM or SS plausible). This would open up a slightly sneaky character, perhaps with Criminal or Urchin background. If I just use Plate mail (like a AD&D fighter would), that would open up an ASI for something like +2 to a stat, Resilient (perhaps then reshuffling stats a bit), or a utility feat like healer or Ritual Caster:wizard (again, changing stat distribution a bit).

Any thoughts or ideas? Thanks!

[Vorpalchicken]

I'd definitely take the ASI over medium armor master. In fact I'd probably wait on GWM too, until my attacking stats were higher (Unless you luck out and find gauntlets of Ogre power or a giant strength belt early.) I would take Archery style rather than defense.
Really I feel the Champion does the AD&D fighter better- You can take a second fighting style and don't have to track as many resources. But I know Battle Master is attractive, largely for Precision. With mediocre attacking stats and further -5 penalties you may depend on that bonus.

[Willie the Duck]

I'd definitely take the ASI over medium armor master. In fact I'd probably wait on GWM too, until my attacking stats were higher (Unless you luck out and find gauntlets of Ogre power or a giant strength belt early.) I would take Archery style rather than defense.

I suppose. SS as Vuman feat, and +2 Dex, +2 Dex, +2 Str as ASIs for 4, 6, and 8, perhaps (or swap one of the Dexs for GWM at 8).

Really I feel the Champion does the AD&D fighter better- You can take a second fighting style and don't have to track as many resources. But I know Battle Master is attractive, largely for Precision. With mediocre attacking stats and further -5 penalties you may depend on that bonus.

Champion definitely increases the feel, and for a mono-stat (Dex or Str) class I would definitely do so. Also in a game where the rest of the group is playing lower OP and/or along for the AD&D-like ride. I've had great fun playing Champion Fighters either without feats or with strictly support feats... but again if people aren't expecting me to dish out copious damage. Battlemaster/precise with the -5/+10 feats seems like an easy way to recapture some power without requiring anything too "5e-ish."

I will take this under advisement, thanks.

[qube]

hmmm ... perhaps sounds a bit stupid, but what's wrong with a normal STR fighter - but with fighting style archery as solution?

it's obviously not the most optimal build (but then again, that's the downside of 2 different weapons), but Archery is pretty powerful, to compensate for the lack of dex, ang going full STR fighter will make sure melee is top notch.

[Particle_Man]

For an off track single stat option maybe Hexblade?

[Willie the Duck]

hmmm ... perhaps sounds a bit stupid, but what's wrong with a normal STR fighter - but with fighting style archery as solution?

it's obviously not the most optimal build (but then again, that's the downside of 2 different weapons), but Archery is pretty powerful, to compensate for the lack of dex, ang going full STR fighter will make sure melee is top notch.

Well, that's pretty much what I started out intending to make-- Str>Dex>Con> some combo of the others, with archery style to offset the Dex lower than Str. The ease of starting 16/16/14 made me think MAM, but I'm certainly not married to it.

On some level, I think picking up GWM (at some point) makes sense-- If I'm going to be a switch-hitter, spending a round to drop the shield when things move from melee to ranged would be costly, so my melee weapon may as well be two-handed. Two handed weapons don't feel 'worth it' just by the damage dice increase alone, so I thought of GWM. That lead to 'why not SS and GWM, using precision to boost either one, as needed?' Aiming for getting (by level 8, before that long dry spell between ASIs): SS, GWM, +2 Str, +2 Str, all with archery style would certainly be viable.

For an off track single stat option maybe Hexblade?

Well, it certainly doesn't feel very AD&D for one. That aside, while I understand the SAD appeal, I really feel that the class isn't actually the best 'fighter' around. If you want all the side benefits like invocations and Short Rest spell slots, being able to use Cha with melee or ranged weapon (and have them be effectively magic weapons, and still be able to use weapon feats if you have them) really saves them from being a combat also-ran.... but it doesn't make them a fighter. No fighting style, no 3rd or 4th attack, no action surge or 2nd win. Perhaps lost in the mix, only medium armor and fewer ASIs. Even paladins, as great as they are, are great right up until your DM starts putting you through genuine, AD&D-level dungeons.

[DanyBallon]

hmmm ... perhaps sounds a bit stupid, but what's wrong with a normal STR fighter - but with fighting style archery as solution?

it's obviously not the most optimal build (but then again, that's the downside of 2 different weapons), but Archery is pretty powerful, to compensate for the lack of dex, ang going full STR fighter will make sure melee is top notch.

I second this! A STR fighter with archery can definitly get you the feel of a AD&D fighter. If you go with medium armor instead of heavy, a just above average DEX will get you a decent bonus to hit with your bow. And if you go the full plate route, the archery can mitigate the penalty for an 8 in DEX.

[Diebo]

I'd probably go vHuman Samurai.

S16 D15+1 C14 I9 W13+1 Ch9. Could switch Dex/Con, and I probably would depending on party make-up (i.e., will you spend more time at front line or in back?)

Start with SS, pick up GWM at 4 or 6, STR at 4 or 6, and STR at 8. Wear plate, use two-handed sword or long bow to keep AD&D feel. As others said, Archery fighting style for sure.

Fighting Spirit will help you land those GWM/SS attacks when you really need to (save for action surge). SS will help with damage and avoid cover penalties to hit.

You'll also have decent Persuasion (especially after 7th), and Wisdom save proficiency at 7th.

[djreynolds]

I have made a champion just like this, but battlemaster could work as well

I ran human variant and grabbed archery style, this lets that 16 dex act as an 20 dex in terms of to hit.

You could grab MAM, nothing wrong with it, but it will take 4ASI just to max out strength and dex with point buy, and breastplate. So MAM is a luxury.

I took SS at 1st, 4th str 18, 6th str 18, 8th GWM, 12th dex 18, 14th lucky.... we never got past 15th

The character was loads of fun.

[Willie the Duck]

So MAM is a luxury.

MAM would be exclusively for a character that wanted to use stealth. Given that mere proficiency in stealth (with a sub-20 Dex) is often insufficient, I probably would not. Especially since picking up MAM would require Vuman (who tend to give themselves away with their bright, shiny torches).

I took SS at 1st, 4th str 18, 6th str 18, 8th GWM, 12th dex 18, 14th lucky.... we never got past 15th

You liked 18 Strength so much, you paid for it twice? () Heh. Yeah, Champion would work, Samurai would work. Heck, Eldritch Knight would work (probably Int-dump style), although then I would probably want to play an elf or half-elf to keep the AD&D theme (although humans could have two classes as well).

[Rukelnikov]

Heck, Eldritch Knight would work (probably Int-dump style), although then I would probably want to play an elf or half-elf to keep the AD&D theme (although humans could have two classes as well).

Yeah, Human would probably be even closer, since elf or helf would raise both classes evenly and EK is much more ftr than wiz.

IMO 2e warriors were really tanky compared to the other classes (overall the best saving throws, and could break the 16 Con +2 cap bonus to hp), so for something evocative I'd try to get good STs, and, as you pointed out, versatility with weapons. Maybe you could get GWM for hordes of minions, SS for archery and Dueling style for fighting bosses S&B.

[Willie the Duck]

IMO 2e warriors were really tanky compared to the other classes (overall the best saving throws, and could break the 16 Con +2 cap bonus to hp), so for something evocative I'd try to get good STs, and, as you pointed out, versatility with weapons. Maybe you could get GWM for hordes of minions, SS for archery and Dueling style for fighting bosses S&B.

The action economy makes switching to shields really iffy. Maybe I can say I'm specialized in Composite Longbow and Greattwo-handedsword, so didn't pick up longsword prof. The saves bit is a good point. Perhaps Samurai, along with Resilient Dex, makes the most 2e of fighters ().

[Rukelnikov]

The action economy makes switching to shields really iffy. Maybe I can say I'm specialized in Composite Longbow and Greattwo-handedsword, so didn't pick up longsword prof. The saves bit is a good point. Perhaps Samurai, along with Resilient Dex, makes the most 2e of fighters ().

That could really work, and having 4 odds in your array, maybe you could man up and go straight human no v like in ye olden days :O

[GlenSmash!]

My favorite style of character is the Longsword/Longbow switch hitter. My favorite way of building him in 5e is using the UA Scout Fighter. It can add to its To Hit, or its AC while not in heavy armor, and Athletics and Stealth checks.

Your stats with Archery style will certainly feel good with either a Longsword/Greatsword, or longbow, especially when a superiority dice is added.

If UA isn't allowed Battlermaster certaly works, but isn't as incentiveized to wear non heavy armor.

One alternate would be Barbarian 2+/Fighter X with Archery style. It hits hard in melee or range.

[Tanarii]

Str 17 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 9 Wis 9 Cha 13
Vuman Champion Fighter
FS Defense, Archery (at 10)
Feat MAM
ASIs: Str/Cha, GWM, Inspiring Leader, Con, Str, Con, ??

You can play with the ASI order a little. But to get the AD&D warrior feel you should plan on being melee primary, but passable with a bow. Mechanically GWF FS isn't particularly important, and you're going to be wearing medium armor for sneaky goodness, so defense is a better choice. Archery is just to keep your attack bonus on point.

Background I would normally recommend Criminal or Urchin for a Str/Dex champion. But if you're going for an AD&D fighter you want a leader or men as well as a combat specialist. So best are probably Soldier, Knight, or Gladiator. The last one appeals to me the most personally.

Skills you can focus on non-physical ones, because of remarkable athlete.

[Willie the Duck]

That could really work, and having 4 odds in your array, maybe you could man up and go straight human no v like in ye olden days :O

Skills you can focus on non-physical ones, because of remarkable athlete.

These two are good points. I hadn't thought about it, but AD&D (2e for sure, 1e it's a case of which books you use) had fighters be some of the most skilled characters, with almost as many NWPs as possible, and some of the best ones for things like diplomacy and wilderness survival (pretty much everything except first aid and magic lore). non variant human for evening out the secondary stats plus skills other than Str/Dex based ones could be interesting.

[Corran]

I'd pick archery instead of defense, because that justifies more leaving my dex at 16 and using the ASI's for feats. Leaving dex at 16 plays well with picking up MAM.

[djreynolds]

9,16,15,9,14,13

16,15,14,9,13,9 (never dump wisdom)

Straight fighter, battle master or champion or samurai feels like they would be ideal

Archery style makes a 16 feel like a 20 for to hit

And if you want MAM, lets go with that then, you are still taking archery style

1st 17,16,14,9,13,9 (MAM)

3rd battlemaster precision, trip, menacing (if you are spending a feat on MAM, then you want full proficiency from stealth, not the champion's half proficiency)

4th 17,16,14,9,13,9 (GWM) precision helps

6th 17,16,14,9,13,9 (SS) precision helps

8th 19 (magical),16,14,9,13,9 (lucky) why, because I have good feeling somewhere here you will find gauntlets of ogre power

12th 19 (magical),18,14,9,13,9 +2 dex

14th 19 (magical),18,14,9,14,9 resilient wisdom (along with indomitable and lucky... you should be good)

[alchahest]

if you want to replicate AD&D, you'll want to play a fighter without a subclass. battlemaster and eldritch knight are right out, and champion has a mechanic change that is unlike anything in AD&D.

also: GWM/Marksman feats are definitely out. that is WAY too many mechanically supported choices.