One Piece VI: Wano Piece

[lord_khaine]

Indeed it was, I misremembered how the haki attack went, my bad. On an unrelated note, wow, I didnt actually think about it, but its kind of impressive, I caught another one piece clip, this time being the one with rebecca and viola talking about luffys article after fighting big mom. Viola mentions it hasnt even been a month since he left dressrosa. Thats.. thats pretty impressive of a power curve luffy is climbing. Going from barely scraping a wing against a warlord, to beating a yonkos number 1 commander and then escaping after everything that took place in just a few weeks time. Makes me wonder if the gorusei are getting more stressed out because of just how rapidly luffy has been messing with the balance of power in the new world. Like, its one thing if he say, popped up every few months and did something ridiculous, but they barely have time to receive word of his latest absurd accomplishment before he is working on the next!

On that note, is there an official in universe timeline showing when everything happened? Like, how long did it take for luffy to go from alabasta, where he arguably made his first big impact on global politics, to marineford?

Except we cant really tell anything out from that. The only rank we specifically know is stronger than Warlord is Emperor. The same does not apply to their right/left hand men.
A Warlord has their bounty Frozen upon the time they join. And Flamingo has been an Warlord for some 10+ years. Thats a long period for him to grow more dangerous without his bounty rising.
For all we know he is the most dangerous opponent Luffy has beaten to date.

[Traab]

Except we cant really tell anything out from that. The only rank we specifically know is stronger than Warlord is Emperor. The same does not apply to their right/left hand men.
A Warlord has their bounty Frozen upon the time they join. And Flamingo has been an Warlord for some 10+ years. Thats a long period for him to grow more dangerous without his bounty rising.
For all we know he is the most dangerous opponent Luffy has beaten to date.

Theoretically possible, but going by how croc treats him it doesnt seem likely. The fight he had against luffy, I said he barely won, but in all reality was surprisingly one sided after luffy went gear 4. The only restriction was on how long he could manage to hold that form and doing enough damage to end the fight. meanwhile doflamingo was bouncing off of him at that point doing little to no damage. Now, the argument against that is a good one, namely the birdcage and how it was magically able to withstand about a dozen fairly heavy hitters, including an admiral, while he was able to fight luffy on fairly even terms. But honestly, that was probably the most ludicrous thing about the entire arc and it made no freaking sense. If he has a city wide technique that can stymie an admiral along with all the other names simultaneously with minimal effort to maintain it and its movement AND fight our protagonist that well, he should have no reason to ally with kaido and instead take over himself because he is basically god.

[Devonix]

Remember some of the warlords Especially Doflamingo were shown to be the equal of the Commanders of Whitebeards army.

So going from Beating Doflamingo, to Beating a Yonko Commander isn't really much of a Jump at all.

[lord_khaine]

Remember some of the warlords Especially Doflamingo were shown to be the equal of the Commanders of Whitebeards army.

So going from Beating Doflamingo, to Beating a Yonko Commander isn't really much of a Jump at all.

Yeah, one could say its not a jump at all.
Or at least one thats impossible to measure. Because the quality of Warlords swing so widely.
And Flamingo was both ½ dead from Law's gamma knife, and holding up the Birdcage.

Though also must agree i did think the birdcage was utter BS.
It was a plot device, not a power Flamingo should have had.
Oda is generally good with his power Scaling, but he dropped the ball here.

It should have been possible for the likes of Zorro to cut parts of it.
He just had to be to wounded/exhausted from something to save the town himself.

[Lord of the Helms]

Except we cant really tell anything out from that. The only rank we specifically know is stronger than Warlord is Emperor. The same does not apply to their right/left hand men.
A Warlord has their bounty Frozen upon the time they join. And Flamingo has been an Warlord for some 10+ years. Thats a long period for him to grow more dangerous without his bounty rising.
For all we know he is the most dangerous opponent Luffy has beaten to date.

I think that is kinda unlikely. When Luffy went Gear 4, he completely outclassed Doffy. He was faster, stronger, and the Warlord was unable to lay a scratch on him even when using his Awakened Devil Fruit powers. By Contrast, even Cracker, presumably the weakest among Big Mom's commanders, was able to cut through Luffy's Haki in Gear 4, and Dogtooth was outmatching Gear 4 Luffy and seriously hurting him in the first round, and still gave as good as he got during Luffy's specifically adapted Snake Man phase. I'd say from their respective performances that Dogtooth was pretty clearly a stronger opponent than Doflamingo.

[Razade]

Except we cant really tell anything out from that. The only rank we specifically know is stronger than Warlord is Emperor. The same does not apply to their right/left hand men.
A Warlord has their bounty Frozen upon the time they join. And Flamingo has been an Warlord for some 10+ years. Thats a long period for him to grow more dangerous without his bounty rising.
For all we know he is the most dangerous opponent Luffy has beaten to date.

I think it's pretty clear, just outright avoiding the "there are no power levels in One Piece" argument, that Katakuri is the most dangerous opponent to date that Luffy has defeated. One of the top commanders of a Yonko outstrips Doffy pretty hard.

Yeah, one could say its not a jump at all.
Or at least one thats impossible to measure. Because the quality of Warlords swing so widely.
And Flamingo was both ½ dead from Law's gamma knife, and holding up the Birdcage.

And Luffy had been fighting pretty much the entire day without any actual rest against some pretty strong opponents. Luffy wasn't fresh when he took on Doffy anymore than Doffy was.

It should have been possible for the likes of Zorro to cut parts of it.
He just had to be to wounded/exhausted from something to save the town himself.

Why? Because you say so?

[lord_khaine]

I think that is kinda unlikely. When Luffy went Gear 4, he completely outclassed Doffy. He was faster, stronger, and the Warlord was unable to lay a scratch on him even when using his Awakened Devil Fruit powers. By Contrast, even Cracker, presumably the weakest among Big Mom's commanders, was able to cut through Luffy's Haki in Gear 4, and Dogtooth was outmatching Gear 4 Luffy and seriously hurting him in the first round, and still gave as good as he got during Luffy's specifically adapted Snake Man phase. I'd say from their respective performances that Dogtooth was pretty clearly a stronger opponent than Doflamingo.

Possibly yes. Problem being that there are so many issues muddling the fight.
And making it impossible to get an actual, accurate reading of it.
Certainly enough so that WG officials would not really care about the difference in percieved strenght.

I think it's pretty clear, just outright avoiding the "there are no power levels in One Piece" argument, that Katakuri is the most dangerous opponent to date that Luffy has defeated. One of the top commanders of a Yonko outstrips Doffy pretty hard.

Clear if we go by story structure? yes. Though even there i dont think Doffy is seriously outstripped. He would still have killed Luffy if not for the aid of the slaves.
Meanwhile, from the point of view of a gouverment official, who this is all about, then its impossible to tell the difference.

And Luffy had been fighting pretty much the entire day without any actual rest against some pretty strong opponents. Luffy wasn't fresh when he took on Doffy anymore than Doffy was.

I think there is a significant difference between a hard workout.
And getting stabbed in the gut by a radioaktive dagger.

Why? Because you say so?

Yes. And because it makes for less plot holes if Flamingo isnt casually able to overpower Zorro, Sanji and a Marine admiral, while simultaneously fighting Luffy.

[Razade]

Clear if we go by story structure? yes. Though even there i dont think Doffy is seriously outstripped. He would still have killed Luffy if not for the aid of the slaves.
Meanwhile, from the point of view of a gouverment official, who this is all about, then its impossible to tell the difference.

It's obviously not impossible to tell the difference. Luffy's bounty went up from 400,000,000b to 500,000,000b from defeating Doffy. A change of 100,000,000b. His bounty went up by 1,000,000,000 for the defeat of two Sweet Commanders and an assault on a Yonko.

That's a pretty clear indication that the WG saw Doffy as less significant. than Katakuri and Cracker.

I think there is a significant difference between a hard workout.
And getting stabbed in the gut by a radioaktive dagger.

I do too. Considering that Luffy didn't just "have a hard workout" and Law's Radio Knife isn't radioactive. A Radio Knife, in medicine because it's a real thing, is a "knife" charged with a high frequency electric current which cuts better than a metal knife. It creates an electric arc, which cuts things. It also wasn't a dagger. It was a two handed sword.

Yes. And because it makes for less plot holes if Flamingo isnt casually able to overpower Zorro, Sanji and a Marine admiral, while simultaneously fighting Luffy.

But Birdcage isn't about over powering things. It's not about power at all. The Birdcage was a big problem because it destroyed everything in its path and there was nowhere to go. Using it in a big field isn't going to do anything. You need a space that's confined with lots of crap to build up a wall so no one can get out from between the threads. That's why it covered the whole damn island instead of just a small area. It's not effective in places with avenues to get out before its too late.

But they're on an island. A very very populated island with lots of crap to get in the way. We see it move entire homes and rocks and debris and when we pan out to the whole island we see just how much destruction it caused to the locale it was placed in. You're missing what the Birdcage is about narrative to...fit power rankings or something. I don't even know. I can't really be surprised though. If you're not paying attention to the small details like Law's sword being electrified over...radioactivity...because it says RADIO! then I can't fully expect you to see the Birdcage as anything but an OP move.

[lord_khaine]

That's a pretty clear indication that the WG saw Doffy as less significant. than Katakuri and Cracker.

Or it could be because he masterminded a defeat to the Big Mom Pirates according to the media.

I do too. Considering that Luffy didn't just "have a hard workout" and Law's Radio Knife isn't radioactive. A Radio Knife, in medicine because it's a real thing, is a "knife" charged with a high frequency electric current which cuts better than a metal knife. It creates an electric arc, which cuts things. It also wasn't a dagger. It was a two handed sword.

But they're on an island. A very very populated island with lots of crap to get in the way. We see it move entire homes and rocks and debris and when we pan out to the whole island we see just how much destruction it caused to the locale it was placed in. You're missing what the Birdcage is about narrative to...fit power rankings or something. I don't even know. I can't really be surprised though. If you're not paying attention to the small details like Law's sword being electrified over...radioactivity...because it says RADIO! then I can't fully expect you to see the Birdcage as anything but an OP move.

Wow! thats a tall horse you managed to crawl up upon. Just a shame that means your going to look even more silly when you fall off again.
I didnt talk about radio knife. I was talking about GAMMA KNIFE. Reference chapter 781.
So... who is it again thats not paying attention to details.. ?
Do go on, im waiting

Or oh well, if you cant tell the difference between Radio Knife, and Gamme Knife, then i guess i cant expect you would be able to analyse the tactical significance of the Birdcage?
And how it means if taken at face value, that Flamingo can likely destroy any town he pleases not protected by someone stronger than one of the admirals.

[Flying Turtle]

It's obviously not impossible to tell the difference. Luffy's bounty went up from 400,000,000b to 500,000,000b from defeating Doffy. A change of 100,000,000b. His bounty went up by 1,000,000,000 for the defeat of two Sweet Commanders and an assault on a Yonko.

That's a pretty clear indication that the WG saw Doffy as less significant. than Katakuri and Cracker.





I do too. Considering that Luffy didn't just "have a hard workout" and Law's Radio Knife isn't radioactive. A Radio Knife, in medicine because it's a real thing, is a "knife" charged with a high frequency electric current which cuts better than a metal knife. It creates an electric arc, which cuts things. It also wasn't a dagger. It was a two handed sword.




But Birdcage isn't about over powering things. It's not about power at all. The Birdcage was a big problem because it destroyed everything in its path and there was nowhere to go. Using it in a big field isn't going to do anything. You need a space that's confined with lots of crap to build up a wall so no one can get out from between the threads. That's why it covered the whole damn island instead of just a small area. It's not effective in places with avenues to get out before its too late.

But they're on an island. A very very populated island with lots of crap to get in the way. We see it move entire homes and rocks and debris and when we pan out to the whole island we see just how much destruction it caused to the locale it was placed in. You're missing what the Birdcage is about narrative to...fit power rankings or something. I don't even know. I can't really be surprised though. If you're not paying attention to the small details like Law's sword being electrified over...radioactivity...because it says RADIO! then I can't fully expect you to see the Birdcage as anything but an OP move.

While Law does have a technique called Radio Knife and said technique does use electricity to cut his opponent just like a real radio knife, the technique he used against Doffy was Gamma Knife. A gamma knife is also a real medical procedure used to kill tumors with radiation, although in Doffy's case Law seemed to have considered his entire eisitence a tumor. An interesting diagnosis but not one with out some real supporting evidence.

As for the bird cage, its narrative roles were to create tension by putting a ticking clock on the fight, distract the rest of the straw hats so they couldn't interfere, and raise the stakes of the fight by putting the lives of everyone on that island at risk.

In universe, its role was to kill everyone because the truth of what Doffy had done to seize and maintain power had been revealed and he wanted to kill everyone on the island before the truth escaped to the rest of the world.

"Before the truth behind this country is exposed, Doflamingo is going to kill everyone on the island." -Law explaining the Bird Cage to everyone

As to who is stronger between Doffy and Katakuri, in a fight its got to be Katakuri. As has already been pointed out Katakuri held his own against next level observational haki, 4th gear Luffy, while Doffy got utterly out classed by 4th gear even before Luffy took his observational haki to the next level. The bird cage having more destructive power than anything Katakuri has doesn't make Doffy a tougher fight, because Katakuri outclasses Doffy in every other category. I don't think the Bird Cage is broken or too strong for Doffy though. It's just another example of what Crocodile told us so many chapters ago. Devil Fruits are about how you use them. The ways you find to exploit your powers. Doffy being a big murdering bastard developed techniques to cause destruction. Katakuri, wanting to defend his family and live up to their expectations for him, developed techniques to make himself a better fighter. Makes perfect sense Doffy would have more destructive power but still be worse fighter.

[Traab]

While Law does have a technique called Radio Knife and said technique does use electricity to cut his opponent just like a real radio knife, the technique he used against Doffy was Gamma Knife. A gamma knife is also a real medical procedure used to kill tumors with radiation, although in Doffy's case Law seemed to have considered his entire eisitence a tumor. An interesting diagnosis but not one with out some real supporting evidence.

As for the bird cage, its narrative roles were to create tension by putting a ticking clock on the fight, distract the rest of the straw hats so they couldn't interfere, and raise the stakes of the fight by putting the lives of everyone on that island at risk.

In universe, its role was to kill everyone because the truth of what Doffy had done to seize and maintain power had been revealed and he wanted to kill everyone on the island before the truth escaped to the rest of the world.

"Before the truth behind this country is exposed, Doflamingo is going to kill everyone on the island." -Law explaining the Bird Cage to everyone

As to who is stronger between Doffy and Katakuri, in a fight its got to be Katakuri. As has already been pointed out Katakuri held his own against next level observational haki, 4th gear Luffy, while Doffy got utterly out classed by 4th gear even before Luffy took his observational haki to the next level. The bird cage having more destructive power than anything Katakuri has doesn't make Doffy a tougher fight, because Katakuri outclasses Doffy in every other category. I don't think the Bird Cage is broken or too strong for Doffy though. It's just another example of what Crocodile told us so many chapters ago. Devil Fruits are about how you use them. The ways you find to exploit your powers. Doffy being a big murdering bastard developed techniques to cause destruction. Katakuri, wanting to defend his family and live up to their expectations for him, developed techniques to make himself a better fighter. Makes perfect sense Doffy would have more destructive power but still be worse fighter.

The thing is though that the birdcage by itself makes excellent sense to be a technique for trapping and killing people inside, however, him being able to empower a technique so strong that the mountain carver zorro and a marine admiral along with dozens of other people couldnt even truly halt it, let alone break so much as a thread from it, all the while doffy is fighting a luffy who is beating him from one side of the bird cage to the other in gear 4th, is excessive and makes no sense. Its the kind of technique I would expect to see used to justify beating a real end boss that should be able to tear luffy apart, not on some mid boss encounter like this.

[Flying Turtle]

The thing is though that the birdcage by itself makes excellent sense to be a technique for trapping and killing people inside, however, him being able to empower a technique so strong that the mountain carver zorro and a marine admiral along with dozens of other people couldnt even truly halt it, let alone break so much as a thread from it, all the while doffy is fighting a luffy who is beating him from one side of the bird cage to the other in gear 4th, is excessive and makes no sense. Its the kind of technique I would expect to see used to justify beating a real end boss that should be able to tear luffy apart, not on some mid boss encounter like this.

I was never wild about Zoro and Fujitora being unable to cut the Bird Cage either. The best explanation I could think of was they were low on Haki from their fights with Pica and Sabo and couldn’t match whatever was imbued in the Bird Cage. Of course Doffy had burned his own fair share of haki fighting Luffy so even this explanation is pretty weak.

[Razade]

Or it could be because he masterminded a defeat to the Big Mom Pirates according to the media.





Wow! thats a tall horse you managed to crawl up upon. Just a shame that means your going to look even more silly when you fall off again.
I didnt talk about radio knife. I was talking about GAMMA KNIFE. Reference chapter 781.
So... who is it again thats not paying attention to details.. ?
Do go on, im waiting

Or oh well, if you cant tell the difference between Radio Knife, and Gamme Knife, then i guess i cant expect you would be able to analyse the tactical significance of the Birdcage?
And how it means if taken at face value, that Flamingo can likely destroy any town he pleases not protected by someone stronger than one of the admirals.

Hey, I'll eat crow about forgetting gamma knife, brain fart on my part. Its still not radioactive. My bad there. It doesn't change anything else though. An argument boiling down to "I don't like it so I make my own headcanon" isn't a great one.

[LaZodiac]

I have no horse in this race but I just want to note;

The Gamma Knife is based on the radiation chemotherapy used to treat cancer and such. Law is an Operating Room Man, so he'd have access to it. The sort of damage it inflicts, as described, is explicitly what extended periods of chemotherapy can do to your insides.

Regardless of it actually being radioactive For Factually True or not, it's still causing radiation like damage, and is based on something that directly uses radioactivity.

[ellenate]

I have no horse in this race but I just want to note;

The Gamma Knife is based on the radiation chemotherapy used to treat cancer and such. Law is an Operating Room Man, so he'd have access to it. The sort of damage it inflicts, as described, is explicitly what extended periods of chemotherapy can do to your insides.

Regardless of it actually being radioactive For Factually True or not, it's still causing radiation like damage, and is based on something that directly uses radioactivity.

law should've just been made a pacifist in a band of rouge doctors.

Him being part (even captain) of a pirate crew, never made a whole lot of sense.

[Flying Turtle]

I have no horse in this race but I just want to note;

The Gamma Knife is based on the radiation chemotherapy used to treat cancer and such. Law is an Operating Room Man, so he'd have access to it. The sort of damage it inflicts, as described, is explicitly what extended periods of chemotherapy can do to your insides.

Regardless of it actually being radioactive For Factually True or not, it's still causing radiation like damage, and is based on something that directly uses radioactivity.

Hey, I'll eat crow about forgetting gamma knife, brain fart on my part. Its still not radioactive. My bad there. It doesn't change anything else though. An argument boiling down to "I don't like it so I make my own headcanon" isn't a great one.

Sorry to be pedantic but this is going to irritate me if I don’t correct it. A gamma knife is radioactive but it is not part of chemotherapy. A gamma knife is really multiple beams of gamma radiation that are emitted from different angles so they all overlap over the target tissue. Individually the beams do not have enough power to cause significant harm but when they overlap they do. Since they are angled differently only the target tissue where they overlap gets the lethal dose and the tissue they travel through to reach the target are left largely unharmed.

Chemotherapy is often confused with radiation therapy but it actually does not use radiation. Instead the patient is given a multitude of drugs that all harm the tumor. Essentially it’s treating the tumor by filling your body with poisons that are moderately more harmful to cancer tissue than they are normal tissue. That’s why it sucks so bad to be on chemo.

[Traab]

So, im a betting man, I was wondering, when do you think awakening will happen to luffy? Will it be some final grand powerup in mid battle with the final boss? Will it come up sooner in one of these big battles between yonko? Has it been a red herring all this time and gear 4 is his top, just alternate animal modes? Im figuring final battleish. Meaning it may or may not be during his last fight, but it will happen during the final battle arc. Sort of like naruto and going up in boosts several times during the 4th war.

[Tvtyrant]

So, im a betting man, I was wondering, when do you think awakening will happen to luffy? Will it be some final grand powerup in mid battle with the final boss? Will it come up sooner in one of these big battles between yonko? Has it been a red herring all this time and gear 4 is his top, just alternate animal modes? Im figuring final battleish. Meaning it may or may not be during his last fight, but it will happen during the final battle arc. Sort of like naruto and going up in boosts several times during the 4th war.

I'm betting when he beats Shanks. They have to meet up at some point, I imagine it will be a teaching battle after Shanks hands him is rubbery butt.

[Traab]

I'm betting when he beats Shanks. They have to meet up at some point, I imagine it will be a teaching battle after Shanks hands him is rubbery butt.

See I dont think it would happen then, as it doesnt seem likely to be something he could actually teach. I would see him more teaching luffy the finer points of weaponizing conquerors haki or even just haki in general to a level beyond what he is currently capable of. I get the feeling awakening is going to be one of those dramatic events where a desperate luffy pushed to the brink calls upon his devil fruit in a new way to save his life or the life of his crew. Like I could see doffy unlocking it while getting his butt kicked years back, thinking, "More thread! I need more thread!" and the nearest tree/building/person suddenly falls apart into thread under his control. In luffys case, because I see him having a rubber room effect as he gets hit so hard he knows the landing will kill him then BOIIIING! the ground flexes around him, cushioning the impact greatly and launching him back into the fight even harder

[Tvtyrant]

See I dont think it would happen then, as it doesnt seem likely to be something he could actually teach. I would see him more teaching luffy the finer points of weaponizing conquerors haki or even just haki in general to a level beyond what he is currently capable of. I get the feeling awakening is going to be one of those dramatic events where a desperate luffy pushed to the brink calls upon his devil fruit in a new way to save his life or the life of his crew. Like I could see doffy unlocking it while getting his butt kicked years back, thinking, "More thread! I need more thread!" and the nearest tree/building/person suddenly falls apart into thread under his control. In luffys case, because I see him having a rubber room effect as he gets hit so hard he knows the landing will kill him then BOIIIING! the ground flexes around him, cushioning the impact greatly and launching him back into the fight even harder

Gets thrown down in an aerial battle, but instead of crashing the island turna into a giant trampoline throwing him back up in a finishing uppercut.

I wonder if he can make the air rubbery, reflect punches at the opponent from every direction.

[ellenate]

Gets thrown down in an aerial battle, but instead of crashing the island turna into a giant trampoline throwing him back up in a finishing uppercut.

that scenario would be better if you replace the ground with the sea.

[Devonix]

I don't see having a broken ability really messing up the power scaling. Yes, Doflamingo has the bird cage that not even the strongest people can cut. But if those people were able to just attack him directly then it turns off. Think of it like a powerful Remote stand in Jojo.

It's just something going on auto pilot so I'm ok with it being super powerful.

[LaZodiac]

Sorry to be pedantic but this is going to irritate me if I don’t correct it. A gamma knife is radioactive but it is not part of chemotherapy. A gamma knife is really multiple beams of gamma radiation that are emitted from different angles so they all overlap over the target tissue. Individually the beams do not have enough power to cause significant harm but when they overlap they do. Since they are angled differently only the target tissue where they overlap gets the lethal dose and the tissue they travel through to reach the target are left largely unharmed.

Chemotherapy is often confused with radiation therapy but it actually does not use radiation. Instead the patient is given a multitude of drugs that all harm the tumor. Essentially it’s treating the tumor by filling your body with poisons that are moderately more harmful to cancer tissue than they are normal tissue. That’s why it sucks so bad to be on chemo.

Are you sure? My grandma always had to put her hands in to a radiation chamber when we got her chemotherapy done, back when I was a kid.

[Flying Turtle]

Are you sure? My grandma always had to put her hands in to a radiation chamber when we got her chemotherapy done, back when I was a kid.

100%. Your grandmother was likely on both chemotherapy and radiation.

[Traab]

Time for one of traabs random questions. Is the world government aware of luffys "grand fleet"? I was just watching the clip of their party after dressrosa and the narrator talked about how they exchanged the sons cups in secret so I wasnt sure if they had learned of luffys buddies out doing their own thing till he calls for them.

[Flying Turtle]

Time for one of traabs random questions. Is the world government aware of luffys "grand fleet"? I was just watching the clip of their party after dressrosa and the narrator talked about how they exchanged the sons cups in secret so I wasnt sure if they had learned of luffys buddies out doing their own thing till he calls for them.

When the World Economic Journal declared Luffy the Fifth Emperor they mentioned that Luffy had recruited seven notorious captains and the silhouettes of the Journal's sources looked a lot like Cavendish and Bartolomeo. So I'd say the world government knows, if only because Cavendish and Bartolomeo seem constitutionally incapable of not bragging.

Additional question did the world government ever figured out that Brook was the same Brook from the Rumbar pirates? I thought I remembered something suggesting they had but I'm blanking on it now.

[Traab]

When the World Economic Journal declared Luffy the Fifth Emperor they mentioned that Luffy had recruited seven notorious captains and the silhouettes of the Journal's sources looked a lot like Cavendish and Bartolomeo. So I'd say the world government knows, if only because Cavendish and Bartolomeo seem constitutionally incapable of not bragging.

Additional question did the world government ever figured out that Brook was the same Brook from the Rumbar pirates? I thought I remembered something suggesting they had but I'm blanking on it now.

Aside from factoring his actual age into a threat assessment I cant think of any reason why it would matter. I mean, he barely recognized gol d roger as an up and coming rookie before he went all corpse-ish. The Rumbar pirates didnt even make it to the new world, so its doubtful anyone knows or cares about them besides laboon. If he was a void century expy THAT would be important, but someone with knowledge of events that took place pre king of the pirates era then a big blank spot until the last few years? Not that important. But thanks for the info on the fleet, I didnt catch that part. Too bad, I was really hoping for a hilarious twist as the world government sets up a big trap for luffy, only to have literally thousands of pirates show up to back him out of nowhere. I mean, there can still be twists like that as there are numerous groups, nations, etc, that owe luffy and like him a lot, but I was just thinking about that one.

[Rynjin]

I don't see having a broken ability really messing up the power scaling. Yes, Doflamingo has the bird cage that not even the strongest people can cut. But if those people were able to just attack him directly then it turns off. Think of it like a powerful Remote stand in Jojo.

It's just something going on auto pilot so I'm ok with it being super powerful.

One of the neat things about One Piece is the non-linear power scaling, and the fact that circumstances play a lot more into fights than "power level".

Eneru is roughly equivalent in threat level to Doflamingo (going by Oda saying his bounty would be around 500 mil, more than enough to be a prominent New World pirate, and the same number as Luffy and Law after they beat Doffy), but gets chumped out by Luffy due to arrogance and type disadvantage.

Everybody Luffy fights after Eneru until several arcs post timeskip are weaker, but the circumstances are far less in his favor, so he gets manhandled by people like Lucci (who would get annihilated by Eneru) for a bunch of arcs until the timeskip.

Yeah, Birdcage is strong by that same token, but a broken power does not make you a world player in One Piece's universe without a solid "whole package" to back it up. Eneru's weakness was a lack of knowledge on how power interactions work, Doflamingo's mistake was banking too much on throwing out an "overpowered" attack and using up a lot of his juice.

It's like trying to spam Ultimates in a fighting game. There's a time and a place, and using your strongest attack early can be very much to your detriment.

[Devonix]

One of the neat things about One Piece is the non-linear power scaling, and the fact that circumstances play a lot more into fights than "power level".

Eneru is roughly equivalent in threat level to Doflamingo (going by Oda saying his bounty would be around 500 mil, more than enough to be a prominent New World pirate, and the same number as Luffy and Law after they beat Doffy), but gets chumped out by Luffy due to arrogance and type disadvantage.

Everybody Luffy fights after Eneru until several arcs post timeskip are weaker, but the circumstances are far less in his favor, so he gets manhandled by people like Lucci (who would get annihilated by Eneru) for a bunch of arcs until the timeskip.

Yeah, Birdcage is strong by that same token, but a broken power does not make you a world player in One Piece's universe without a solid "whole package" to back it up. Eneru's weakness was a lack of knowledge on how power interactions work, Doflamingo's mistake was banking too much on throwing out an "overpowered" attack and using up a lot of his juice.

It's like trying to spam Ultimates in a fighting game. There's a time and a place, and using your strongest attack early can be very much to your detriment.

Yep like how Mr. 3's wax helped Luffy Fight Magellean who he should have absolutely no chance against. Or how Foxy's ability is also incredibly broken. Foxy is kinda a hard counter to someone like Kizaru since his power is based on Speed, and Foxy can just slow him down.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, Birdcage is strong by that same token, but a broken power does not make you a world player in One Piece's universe without a solid "whole package" to back it up. Eneru's weakness was a lack of knowledge on how power interactions work, Doflamingo's mistake was banking too much on throwing out an "overpowered" attack and using up a lot of his juice.

It's like trying to spam Ultimates in a fighting game. There's a time and a place, and using your strongest attack early can be very much to your detriment.

I wont really call running into your litteral counter a lack of knowledge. More extremely bad luck.
And its not even like Eneru didnt figure out how to fight Luffy. He had just gone to long without facing a real threat. And failed to take it seriously.

As for the birdcage meanwhile, well no to start with, to become a world power you need a crew. Even someone as individually powerful as Kaido still needs an organisation beneath him.
Else your not a power, but just a wandering disaster.

And the real issue with the Birdcage, is that we are not given any coherent explanation for why for example, Flamingo just cant fly out of the cage before starting to close it.
Or refrain from forming it over himself.

Foxy is kinda a hard counter to someone like Kizaru since his power is based on Speed, and Foxy can just slow him down.

See i meanwhile suspect Kizaru to trash foxy, because he also got a ranged attack, and are likely far faster.