One Piece VI: Wano Piece

[Traab]

Zoro is one of, if not the, most resilient Strawhat member, although his health recovery rate is arguably far worse than Luffy's. Majority of the fights he's in, he's handicapped by a prior injury, but he still pulled through and beat the arc villain's top subordinates.

The "nothing happened" moment of Thriller Bark Arc pretty much shows he can handle Luffy's pain the entire arc on top of his.

Nami I would say would be the archetypal glass cannon of the SH crew. Her upgraded climatact and even getting Zeus raised her offensive power quite high, but I still see her getting one shotted even by those lower than Yonkou commander positions

Pfft, she isnt even bullet proof. She can blast on a high level, but she can be taken out by mooks with guns. I dont think she really has the ability to dodge or deflect them reliably does she? I mean, we saw sanji isnt bullet proof either on the escape from whole cake carrying luffy, but he and zoro are both generally capable of dodging or deflecting them. In all honesty, once you leave the monster trio (plus jinbe) the defensive ability really starts to drop. I mean, franky is a cyborg and brook is a skeleton so bullets arent THAT big a deal, but nami ussop and robin are very vulnerable to being shot in the face and not very good at avoiding them while at least chopper has various defensive forms that probably make him able to tank a few shots. Yeah, thinking on it, glass cannon is nami, the rest arent really cannons, they have very different skill sets but are glass.

[ellenate]

You mean, surviving what should be a fatal wound from a fellow supernova, and recovering without real medical attention,
somehow magically turns him into a glass cannon?

If you can't take a serious shot from your peers, you're a glass cannon.

Where it should also be noted, a large part of Zorro's defence comes from his ability to block, dodge or parry attacks.
Something that in that specific case was hindered by him both being flanked, and having civilians to protect.

So what are you alluding to?

That without the aforementioned, he's defenseless?

That he can't take a hit?

That he's *gasp* a glass cannon

Zoro is one of, if not the, most resilient Strawhat member

but...

Majority of the fights he's in, he's handicapped by a prior injury

The "nothing happened" moment of Thriller Bark Arc pretty much shows he can handle Luffy's pain the entire arc on top of his.

His durability is garbage and having a high pain tolerance wouldn't disprove that.

[ben-zayb]

Good thing about Usopp and Nami, they are both long ranged combatants, so they are also the least likely to get hit at all.

Robin, meanwhile, can hide in Franky's most durable bunker and would still be able to attack/spy/defend. She has clones that can just go poof before taking attacks, and can be a way to enable long distance communication. Her clutch attacks can preemptively disable enemies and even invites friendly fire amongst her targets. She has techniques that either deflects attacks (the moth one) or uproots a small chunk of land to be used as cover (that flower garden one). She arguably has the most potential in terms of OP abilities amongst the Strawhat Crew.

It may not appear at surface level, but the SH outside the monster quartet are quite formidable in their own rights.

[Tvtyrant]

Good thing about Usopp and Nami, they are both long ranged combatants, so they are also the least likely to get hit at all.

Robin, meanwhile, can hide in Franky's most durable bunker and would still be able to attack/spy/defend. She has clones that can just go poof before taking attacks, and can be a way to enable long distance communication. Her clutch attacks can preemptively disable enemies and even invites friendly fire amongst her targets. She has techniques that either deflects attacks (the moth one) or uproots a small chunk of land to be used as cover (that flower garden one). She arguably has the most potential in terms of OP abilities amongst the Strawhat Crew.

It may not appear at surface level, but the SH outside the monster quartet are quite formidable in their own rights.

Robin is basically never going to face an opponent not immune to her powers, because she can sit a mile away and stab or shoot them over and over with no retaliation.

[lord_khaine]

If you can't take a serious shot from your peers, you're a glass cannon.

His durability is garbage and having a high pain tolerance wouldn't disprove that.

I can see your both operating under a different definition of glass cannon than the rest of us.
As well seemingly unable to back up any of these claims with something specific, i guess either because your reading a different manga than the rest of us,
or else because your having trouble remembering far past a single arc.

But your of course welcome to operate under your own definition of the word.
Just dont be surprised when people misunderstand you. But here is a https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GlassCannon link for your information.
To i bet everyone else besides you in this thread, a glass cannon is someone with high attack power and low defence.
The key word here being low defence, not low toughness. Blocking or dodging also falls under the definition of defence.

Besides thats, stabbing attacks have always been exceptionally dangerous in OP.
I think the only relevant case of someone shrugging one of those off without DF help is Whitebeard. But thats why he was a Yonko.

Robin is basically never going to face an opponent not immune to her powers, because she can sit a mile away and stab or shoot them over and over with no retaliation.

Actually a Logia is pretty immune to her.
As well as anyone with sufficient defence that she cant harm them with her bare hands.

[Traab]

Has robin pulled out haki yet? If not then she is still relegated to scrub control. Pretty much anyone above the rank of mook has armament now and would care little about robin trying for a repeat of how she got franky to join the crew. And considering she feels the pain of anything hitting her fake limbs, she isnt all that safer hiding in a bunker. Going by her wiki she is surprisingly tough overall, im just pointing out that her abilities beyond being an effective mass trash disposal skill, arent that helpful when the fight gets serious now.

[ben-zayb]

Has robin pulled out haki yet? If not then she is still relegated to scrub control. Pretty much anyone above the rank of mook has armament now and would care little about robin trying for a repeat of how she got franky to join the crew. And considering she feels the pain of anything hitting her fake limbs, she isnt all that safer hiding in a bunker. Going by her wiki she is surprisingly tough overall, im just pointing out that her abilities beyond being an effective mass trash disposal skill, arent that helpful when the fight gets serious now.

We haven't seen her with armament yet, but that's why I said her abilities have great potential. She can pretty much defend or sneak attack anyone from afar once she gets armament.

And to be fair, as of chapter 932 we already saw how her reaction time improved to prevent her DF parts from being hurt.

[ellenate]

I can see your both operating under a different definition of glass cannon than the rest of us.

As well seemingly unable to back up any of these claims with something specific

Au contraire mon frère

a glass cannon is someone with high attack power and low defense.
The key word here being low defense, not low toughness. Blocking or dodging also falls under the definition of defense.

Zoro's main defense, as you put it-

a large part of Zorro's defense comes from his ability to block, dodge or parry attacks.

Though you left out "-with a sword".


That defense within itself is really pitiful in the world of one piece. It is basically only effective against other melee/close range assaults.


So a person would expect him to at least, excel at defending against said attacks, but

Something that in that specific case was hindered by him both being flanked, and having civilians to protect.

1) that guy wasn't even attacking them any more and was focused only on zoro.
2) zoro idiotically turned his back on the first fight.
3) zoro out matched the person in the first fight who's attack threw him off. Showing that while he maybe stronger his overall defense is poor.

When put to the test, it was overwhelmed by just two people. One of which he was shown to defeat with ease. (he honestly made quick work of both of them tbh but whatever)

As well seemingly unable to back up any of these claims with something specific

then what were you countering by mentioning he had "civilians to protect"?

or again here

Besides thats, stabbing attacks have always been exceptionally dangerous in OP.

Perhaps some specific moment i brought up...

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

A cute little side story for our kappa friend and the fox, who appears to have eaten a human fruit, model benkai given all the sword collecting he was doing

[Razade]

New chapter!

A cute little side story for our kappa friend and the fox, who appears to have eaten a human fruit, model benkai given all the sword collecting he was doing

I don't think it ate a devil fruit. There is plenty of legends that back up fixes being able to shapeshift.

[deuterio12]

New chapter!

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D is for dragon dipomacy it seems.

Soooo this is looking pretty bad for everybody else, no matter how many puny mooks and swords they gather, it won't matter much against either of the big bad pirates, let alone they teaming up, and even the protagonist has been stablished as being curbstomped by their subordinates.

Or maybe this is just a ploy from big momma and she's totally planning to backstab him at the first chance. Wouldn't be the first time. Kudos to her for somehow managing to negotiate a new alliance right after the whole marriage betrayal fiasco, although pirate dragon also confirmed as going out of his way to get allies at all costs which is already biting him back since the protagonist abused said mercy to break free.

[LaZodiac]

Mark your spoilers, especially when it's from an illegal scan. It's just common courtesy.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

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Further ramping up of our heroes... only to learn the unfortunate truth: Kaido and Big Mom teamed up. So this may be impossible. Dramatic!

[Traab]

New chapter!

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Further ramping up of our heroes... only to learn the unfortunate truth: Kaido and Big Mom teamed up. So this may be impossible. Dramatic!

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can you give some details on the hero ramping?

[LaZodiac]

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can you give some details on the hero ramping?

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Zoro (considering) trading in for a new sword, Law interrogating Hawkins, Luffy punching haki-hardened steel and envisioning it as Kaido's skin. Franky repairing stuff all cool like. Stuff like that.

[Traab]

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Zoro (considering) trading in for a new sword, Law interrogating Hawkins, Luffy punching haki-hardened steel and envisioning it as Kaido's skin. Franky repairing stuff all cool like. Stuff like that.

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I imagine zoro is having a tough time here with the idea as iirc, all three of his blades have special meaning to him. Even sandai kitetsu was the first "special" blade he got aside from the one he inherited and he fought to make it his and under his control rather than vice versa. That said, and keeping in mind I havent read any of this arc yet, I could possibly see him giving up that blade, but the one he got from thriller bark also has potential if he decides to leave it as a memorial in wano or something. Im not sure what law will get from hawkings to get stronger so I will leave that bit. As for luffy, im assuming he is building up his durability so he wont have the same issue he did against katakuri when his own haki fists getting punched hurt him because they werent tough enough yet?

[LaZodiac]

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I imagine zoro is having a tough time here with the idea as iirc, all three of his blades have special meaning to him. Even sandai kitetsu was the first "special" blade he got aside from the one he inherited and he fought to make it his and under his control rather than vice versa. That said, and keeping in mind I havent read any of this arc yet, I could possibly see him giving up that blade, but the one he got from thriller bark also has potential if he decides to leave it as a memorial in wano or something. Im not sure what law will get from hawkings to get stronger so I will leave that bit. As for luffy, im assuming he is building up his durability so he wont have the same issue he did against katakuri when his own haki fists getting punched hurt him because they werent tough enough yet?

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I should have specified that the one he got from Thriller Bark is the sword he's considering giving up. It was taken from the country by the Sword-God, and he is being offered it's sister blade in return.

Law is getting information, mostly.

Luffy is mastering using Haki and increasing his strength, with the old martial arts master he met.

[Devonix]

In terms of resistance to injury pretty much all of the cast except for Brook, Luffy, and Franky, have the same level. of it. You stab or shoot any of the others and the same thing's going to happen to them. One Piece makes it very apparent that you actually have to defend against attacks, you need to block or dodge something. ( Unless you're a logia ) You shoot anyone in One Piece, Stab anyone in One Piece and it's gonna hurt no matter how weak you are, or how strong they are.

[ellenate]

In terms of resistance to injury pretty much all of the cast except for Brook, Luffy, and Franky, have the same level. of it. You stab or shoot any of the others and the same thing's going to happen to them. One Piece makes it very apparent that you actually have to defend against attacks, you need to block or dodge something. ( Unless you're a logia ) You shoot anyone in One Piece, Stab anyone in One Piece and it's gonna hurt no matter how weak you are, or how strong they are.

No, only fodder and curbstomb matches have had people show the level of resilience zoro did in that fight.

Even nami can take a stabbing without fainting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJpnFT6EEs (nami stabbing herself)




^(nami getting stabbed then continuing to fight. I couldn't bother counting but she took more abuse than zoro.)


Zoro is a delicate little flower. He's been shown time and time again to be a glass cannon and its by design for plot reasons.

[Traab]

No, only fodder and curbstomb matches have had people show the level of resilience zoro did in that fight.

Even nami can take a stabbing without fainting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJpnFT6EEs (nami stabbing herself)




^(nami getting stabbed then continuing to fight. I couldn't bother counting but she took more abuse than zoro.)


Zoro is a delicate little flower. He's been shown time and time again to be a glass cannon and its by design for plot reasons.

No, he isnt. He takes plenty of damage and keeps on going. Yeah, this is nothing to getting stabbed in the shoulder. What a wuss I mean, sure he tanked an attack that also sliced apart a stone pillar that then collapsed on him, but hey, namis arm got hurt! She is so much tougher! I especially like how its the same arc, same day, same battle so there isnt any excuse to disregard it.

[ellenate]

No, he isnt.

Yes he is.

He takes plenty of damage and keeps on going.

He took a bunch of slashes *slow clap*

He now was base level anime durability.

He takes plenty of damage and keeps on going.

Like i sarcastically alluded to above, slash damage is highly inconsistent not only in anime, but also especially in one piece. Sword-fighting in this manga is like one or two notches away from being what you'd find in a cartoon.

Yeah, this is nothing to getting stabbed in the shoulder. What a wuss

Hey all i'm saying is one took a stab wound and fainted while the other didn't.

I mean, sure he tanked an attack that also sliced apart a stone pillar that then collapsed on him, but hey, namis arm got hurt!

If the sword fighting in this manga, had a lick of consistency, it would've tore him a sunder. But it's pure theatrics, so yeah...

She is so much tougher!

That can be said with what we were just shown in wano. Fainting after getting stabbed is pathetic for someone of Zoro's caliber.

I especially like how its the same arc, same day, same battle so there isnt any excuse to disregard it.

There is and i am.

[Traab]

Feel free to ignore canon if it makes you feel better, you are objectively wrong and I showed it in that clip. He took way worse damage and not only kept fighting, managed to reach a new level of power and skill.

[LaZodiac]

Okay so, in terms of definition Zoro is a glass canon. He's probably the easiest to hurt of our protagonists, but is super strong. Theoretically you should be able to take him down pretty easy.

The man has also spent nearly the entirety of the first half of the series more bandage than man. He has taken so much damage and just keeps on going. He's literally taken all of Luffy's pain from Kuma and was like "oh this was just a breeze", because he is that determined. He goes on inspite of the fact that in terms of defense rating, he's got the lowest.

So you're both right.

[lord_khaine]

Okay so, in terms of definition Zoro is a glass canon. He's probably the easiest to hurt of our protagonists, but is super strong. Theoretically you should be able to take him down pretty easy.

To start with, this isnt correct. Zorro is one of the protagonists who are hardest to hurt. Likely second only to Luffy.
He is skilled, perceptive, and fast enough to block bullets with his sword.
His definition isnt glass canon, its LightningBruiser

So you're both right.

No. They are not both right. In the reality the majority of people are living in, Traab is correct.
Ellenate meanwhile are very wrong, but just happens to be able to ignore all facts not fitting with his sense of reality.
Either that or run on an alternate version of either the comic, or common tropes.

[Devonix]

To start with, this isnt correct. Zorro is one of the protagonists who are hardest to hurt. Likely second only to Luffy.
He is skilled, perceptive, and fast enough to block bullets with his sword.
His definition isnt glass canon, its LightningBruiser



No. They are not both right. In the reality the majority of people are living in, Traab is correct.
Ellenate meanwhile are very wrong, but just happens to be able to ignore all facts not fitting with his sense of reality.
Either that or run on an alternate version of either the comic, or common tropes.

Zorro is Easily hurt, he's just hard to put down. You can shoot Zorro, You can Stab Zorro, you can Zap him with a Laser. And if you hit him with it, he's going to be injured, he's going to be wounded. But Zorro for the most part is going to keep fighting. As long as Zorro can stand he'll fight, as long as he can fight he's dangerous.

Zorro's defensive capabilities are about blocking damage with swords or dodging, if he doesn't do either of these he's going to get injured.

[Traab]

Zorro is Easily hurt, he's just hard to put down. You can shoot Zorro, You can Stab Zorro, you can Zap him with a Laser. And if you hit him with it, he's going to be injured, he's going to be wounded. But Zorro for the most part is going to keep fighting. As long as Zorro can stand he'll fight, as long as he can fight he's dangerous.

Zorro's defensive capabilities are about blocking damage with swords or dodging, if he doesn't do either of these he's going to get injured.

I think one of the issues here is the difference between being hard to hurt, and how much hurt you can absorb. Luffy is hard to hurt. His rubber body and mastery of haki mean its not easy to do him real damage in a fight. He also can take a LOT of hurt before going down as we have seen. Zoro on the other hand isnt hard to hurt. If you hit him, he takes damage. However, like luffy, it takes a LOT of hurt for him to finally go down. And his ability to dodge block and deflect attacks is very high making hitting him a difficult prospect. So he isnt a glass cannon as he doesnt get pasted by taking a couple shots. But he also isnt a tank as he takes plenty of damage when he gets hit. If this was a game of world of warcraft I would put him in the hybrid class range. he isnt a plate wearing warrior, he isnt a cloth robe caster, he is a chain mail wearing hunter. High damage dealer, takes moderate damage, and its hard to hit him (albeit for different reasons)

[Tvtyrant]

His first real fight he has a hole in his guts, that is his tamest injury. He fought Haki with his entire body slashed up, he got torn up by buzzsaws against Mr. 1, and took all of Luffy's damage from using how powers aggressively. His ability to ignore wounds is the second highest shown after Whitebeard in the series.

What he isn't is good at avoiding injuries. He gets injured in almost every fight, and pre-time skip he ended most fights drenched entirely in his own blood. Like when he fights Kaku and gets hit by hundreds of slash attacks falling from the ceiling.

[ben-zayb]

The best way I abstract is that Zoro has a crapton of Hit Points but no Damage Reduction, but his AC (armor class) is limited to Dodge and Parry bonuses due to lack of Natural and artificial Armor bonus. Luffy just has ridiculous HP too, while Franky just has absurd Damage Reduction.


I wouldn't even undersell being one-shotted by Kamazo, who turned out to be the only other noncaptain Supernova aside from Zoro.

[lord_khaine]

I think one of the issues here is the difference between being hard to hurt, and how much hurt you can absorb. Luffy is hard to hurt. His rubber body and mastery of haki mean its not easy to do him real damage in a fight.

I think the most relevant difference when it comes to Haki, is that Luffy managed to "level" his observation Haki up.

I wouldn't even undersell being one-shotted by Kamazo, who turned out to be the only other noncaptain Supernova aside from Zoro.

And here is should be mentioned, Zoro wasnt one-shot by Kamazo.
He allowed Kamazo to wound him, in return for being able to one-shot him with the counter slash.

[Callos_DeTerran]

So I gotta ask, as someone who has been trying and failing, to get into One Piece for a few years now...what draws you to this particular series? What do you enjoy about it and what don't you?

For my part, I enjoy a large amount of the world-building that has gone into this series, how different power-sets and organizations are set up, but actually reading One Piece drives me mad. So I'm trying to get an idea of what has so captivated other people!