The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I could say the same. Is it really so hard to think that in the first chapter of his serie, Oda did not have a complete map of the endgame power ups?
    Because i dont recall any relevant forshadowing of Genma 66, or whole Cake Island.

    Else, besides that i find it slightly unlikely Luffy will leave this arc able to fight a Yonko like a equal.
    To start with, even just 20% of OP is still going to be a around 250 chapters. Thats longer than some manga have run in total.
    If Luffy is buffed to the point where he can fight at Yonko level, then we will get around 5 years of OP where its more or less impossible to challenge Luffy.
    Due to there only being 4-5 people in the world who can take him fairly.

    And thats assuming Oda was correct in his statement regarding things being 80%
    Funny little story, Robert Jordan initially though his Wheel of Time serie would fit in 6 books.
    The thing is, there are plenty of people who count as a threat to a yonko level luffy. The admirals, blackbeard, big mom and kaido if they are still around, plus we have no idea what other random things vegapunk has been up to, or what sort of things the gorusei could authorize unleashing if they decided it was important enough. All of whom will have very good reason to go all out in an attempt at revenge if luffy pulls off a win of some sort in wano. Before the world was in a sort of equilibrium where the yonko were too powerful to go after directly but they couldnt risk going after the marines or each other without being in danger of losing themselves. That balance is shattered. So the whole world is going to get drawn into this huge issue. There is the whole deal of getting to raftel, the solving of various mysteries, setting up for marineford 2.0 through the calling in of allies for all sides, and of course actually HAVING marineford 2.0. And even if we assume that would be the end of the main storyline, im sure there are all sorts of chapters that could be written of the new pirate king and crew fulfilling all their promises and celebrating with the friends and allies they made along the way. There is still a lot to do.

    All that said, I dont think he will be fighting a yonko as an equal. I could see at BEST a group effort allowing luffy and the straw hats to pull off a win, or at least a "win" closer to the line of what he pulled off at whole cake which was such a huge cluster by the time it was over that im still trying to untangle events. Meaning he costs kaido something important, gets another huge hit to his reputation, and now has 2 emperors eager to see him dead.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    I could say the same. Is it really so hard to think that in the first chapter of his serie, Oda did not have a complete map of the endgame power ups?
    Because i dont recall any relevant forshadowing of Genma 66, or whole Cake Island.

    Else, besides that i find it slightly unlikely Luffy will leave this arc able to fight a Yonko like a equal.
    To start with, even just 20% of OP is still going to be a around 250 chapters. Thats longer than some manga have run in total.
    If Luffy is buffed to the point where he can fight at Yonko level, then we will get around 5 years of OP where its more or less impossible to challenge Luffy.
    Due to there only being 4-5 people in the world who can take him fairly.

    And thats assuming Oda was correct in his statement regarding things being 80%
    Funny little story, Robert Jordan initially though his Wheel of Time serie would fit in 6 books.
    Sanji's Luggage was apparently an early clue. When he was leaving the Baratie or however you spell it. In the east Blue. BEFORE we met Arlong and saw Nami's home.

    And somewhere in there, it came up to Nami and Usopp that Sanji was from The North Blue. I forget if that was in Alabasta or Skypiea, but I seem to recall it was during one or the other. THAT was a forshadowing.



    As for chapter 1 not having the ending level powers mapped out yet. From most other authors, that would be standard operating procedure. Oda isn't most other authors.


    And as for 250 chapters being longer than most Managa's total lengths, true. But most Manga aren't long form epic shonen battle series. And don't forget, a HUGH amount of that has to be taken up by The Final War, which were promised will make Marineford look like previews, and by Raftle, and by solving the various mystery's like The Void Century, The Secret The Roger Pirates Found, The Third Ancient Weapon, and this is just the stuff that HAS to have time taken to show and explain, let alone stuff people WANT explained like Devil Fruit Origins.

    So, there's not nearly so much time for Luffy to get too the level he NEEDS to be operating at for that too work.

    It's, POSSIBLE, Shanks could take over training him after Wano for awhile, but I find that doesn't fit. Luffy and Shanks are actively avoiding one another till there sure Luffy is at the same Level as Shanks, at a minimum. In Turn, that means the minimum for Luffy to be at that level is to be able to go one on one with a Yonko.

    So, yeah, I don't see any way for the series to really work, in the discussed time frame, and not have Luffy manage something.


    Again, like I said, totally viable for it to take multiple rounds of Kaido brawling with Luffy for Luffy to get there, kind of how it took 3 rounds for Luffy to finally BEAT Crocodile. And there could be stuff in between the fights like stumbling on figuring out how to awaken his Devil Fruit, or meditating on the fight with Katakuri + What he learned with Reyleigh and further strengthening his Observation Haki, or on what he learned by actively brawling with Kaido + what he learned with Reyleigh to strengthen his Armament Haki. Other suggestion's I think sound viable have also been made.
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Wasnt the earliest foreshadowing about sanji the Alive bounty poster? Everyone else was dead or alive, but sanji was alive for some reason.
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Wasnt the earliest foreshadowing about sanji the Alive bounty poster? Everyone else was dead or alive, but sanji was alive for some reason.
    That was right after the Dressrosa arc as Sanji's poster before that didn't look like him.

    The earliest foreshadowing of Sanji having more to his backstory would be the mentions of him being from North Blue instead of East Blue where Luffy met him.

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Wasnt the earliest foreshadowing about sanji the Alive bounty poster? Everyone else was dead or alive, but sanji was alive for some reason.
    Pretty sure the 2 things I mentioned were before that. Even if not, there are still more chapters between the Only Alive bounty poster, and Begie taking Sanji to Big Mom and Germa 66, than there are between Shanks Scaring off the Eel, and Luffy using Conqueror's Haki for the first time at Amazon Lily. Or at least fairly close too it.
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Wasnt the earliest foreshadowing about sanji the Alive bounty poster? Everyone else was dead or alive, but sanji was alive for some reason.
    Alabasta Arc. Mr. Prince

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    Alabasta Arc. Mr. Prince
    How is Mr. Prince foreshadowing? The Arc itself explains why he called himself that and I highly doubt Sanji would ever give himself a nickname based off his family connection.

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Yeah.. see i dont think of those things being foreshadowing either.
    It sounds more like backshadowing. Where something big is revealed, and people then search back though the story for things that in hindsight could have been about it.
    Sanji's luggage is a really good example of it. I looked at it. Its utterly regular. And him being from North Blue does not say anything either. That could just as well have been some random world building.
    But the wanted poster is a good example of actual foreshadowing.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yeah.. see i dont think of those things being foreshadowing either.
    It sounds more like backshadowing. Where something big is revealed, and people then search back though the story for things that in hindsight could have been about it.
    Sanji's luggage is a really good example of it. I looked at it. Its utterly regular. And him being from North Blue does not say anything either. That could just as well have been some random world building.
    But the wanted poster is a good example of actual foreshadowing.
    See thats what I meant, being from the north blue means nothing really, its just as likely he is the king in hiding as he is a farm boy who wandered off to sea. Being wanted alive when everyone else is wanted dead or alive means he is important for some reason. Either he knows something or has something important, or he IS someone important, or at least connected to someone important. If Vivi had joined the crew, she might well have started out with a wanted alive poster if her dad didnt publicly disavow her.
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    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    New chapter!

    Intrigue and adventure as Momosuke gets told off for using a battle cry Zoro told him. It's probably going to come back in some way that'll be startingly important later!

    We also see that now that Sanji has learned his suit gives him invisibility powers that he really wants to find a woman's bath. Aaah Sanji.

    And finally, prison beatings called on account of Queen showing up to perform. Inter...esting.


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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    We also see that now that Sanji has learned his suit gives him invisibility powers that he really wants to find a woman's bath. Aaah Sanji.
    My money is on Sanji ending up peeping on Shinobu, because that sounds like something Oda would write.


    Also I apparently missed this on my initial read through, so in case anybody else did: One Piece is on break next week.

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    By the way, I forget, where are Carrot and Chopper this whole time? I suppose they can't sneak around the country since they would stick out even more than Brook due to this country not having Mink folk, but still.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2019-03-01 at 07:00 PM.

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    By the way, I forget, where are Carrot and Chopper this whole time? I suppose they can't sneak around the country since they would stick out even more than Brook due to this country not having Mink folk, but still.
    Last I remember Carrot was with the other minks (Wanda, Yomo, etc.) that arrived in Wano. Chopper's been featured recently as part of the Big Mom subplot
    Last edited by ben-zayb; 2019-03-01 at 08:23 PM.

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Spoiler: New Chapter!
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    The trend of SMILE headliners and SMILE users in general being absolute pushovers continues! So disappointing. Hyogoro looked super badass by the way, with his crazy flamelike hairstyle.

    I am actually liking Queen so far. But kinda lazy of him to let his underlings take care of the Luffy and Kidd problem.

    Interesting bit about Luffy being unable to use haki. Not sure whether kairoseki simply disable haki, or if its weakening effects on DF users make it so that simply exerting force to fight takes Luffy's entire willpower to do that there's none left for CoA/CoO. Clarification on the official release would help.

    No idea what Oda intends to do with Zoro. Maybe this will be an opportunity to use the Nidai Kitetsu instead. Also, most likely the same thief who stole the blueprint.

    Sanji is 99% chance peeping, 1% chance on another undercover mission.

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Kinda dislike how absurdly deformed the SMile Pirates are. Honestly noone sane would have eaten such a fruit after watching the guy hippo guy.
    But cant deny how creative their designs are.

    Else, nice guess earlier about the training Luffy undergoes with the seastone cuffs.
    Apperently he will get a little stronger from this.

    Now im most of all looking forward to see what sort of utter beast thats locked in the cage.
    I can easily imagine him busting Luffy free, or at least giving the ninja a chance to open the cuffs.

    As for Sanji, he would not really need to peep, if its a mixed bath.
    He can just walk in and take a seat.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Kinda dislike how absurdly deformed the SMile Pirates are. Honestly noone sane would have eaten such a fruit after watching the guy hippo guy.
    But cant deny how creative their designs are.
    You underestimate people's desire to be a furry.

    And I mean most of them don't look THAT deformed, given the rest of the universe.


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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    ... there are some things sane people cant contemplate..

    And well.. alright.. its perhaps 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 who are really screwed.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    You underestimate people's desire to be a furry.

    And I mean most of them don't look THAT deformed, given the rest of the universe.
    I don't think many furries want to look like the... weirder smile users. More like te average Zoan. I think. I wouldn't know.

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    Otherwise... hm, not much to say on the new chapter. Not sure if Sanji would really peep... if he can just go to the mixed baths. Seems more like somethink Brooke might do.

    And way to build up possible mystery and then burst the bubble a page later with Hyogoro, Oda

    Also... Queen is like... super weird... I don't know why he (?) makes me say that of all people but it's just... that's Ginju level of awkward.
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    So im watching the various clips of one piece, escape from big moms very big family, and I have to say its almost insane just how much went wrong for big mom all at once. I mean, you had the whole thing with germa backfire on her, that al capone knock off turning on her, the fishman pirate crew turning up and causing havoc. And all of that just makes it even scarier to think about just how powerful big mom and her forces are if even with all of that, including her being removed from the equation for so much of it due to chasing down cake, they still only just BARELY survived to make their escape. It helps bring it all into scale just how far luffy and the straw hats have to go before they can even be considered on par with monsters like the yonko. Yeah luffy beat up cracker and won against katakuri, that just leaves another 50 or so of her kids, many of whom have absurdly dangerous abilities, backed by a few tens of thousands of troops, not even counting big mom herself, no big deal right?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    So im watching the various clips of one piece, escape from big moms very big family, and I have to say its almost insane just how much went wrong for big mom all at once. I mean, you had the whole thing with germa backfire on her, that al capone knock off turning on her, the fishman pirate crew turning up and causing havoc. And all of that just makes it even scarier to think about just how powerful big mom and her forces are if even with all of that, including her being removed from the equation for so much of it due to chasing down cake, they still only just BARELY survived to make their escape. It helps bring it all into scale just how far luffy and the straw hats have to go before they can even be considered on par with monsters like the yonko. Yeah luffy beat up cracker and won against katakuri, that just leaves another 50 or so of her kids, many of whom have absurdly dangerous abilities, backed by a few tens of thousands of troops, not even counting big mom herself, no big deal right?
    Yeah, it rules!

    Also new chapter:
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    had some difficulty following it again, it's getting...about as wordy as Hunter x Hunter so I'm kinda blacking out on it. It's not bad by any stretch it just seems overly slow. But that's One Piece in the early moments of an arc, so wat can you do!


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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    So im watching the various clips of one piece, escape from big moms very big family, and I have to say its almost insane just how much went wrong for big mom all at once. I mean, you had the whole thing with germa backfire on her, that al capone knock off turning on her, the fishman pirate crew turning up and causing havoc. And all of that just makes it even scarier to think about just how powerful big mom and her forces are if even with all of that, including her being removed from the equation for so much of it due to chasing down cake, they still only just BARELY survived to make their escape. It helps bring it all into scale just how far luffy and the straw hats have to go before they can even be considered on par with monsters like the yonko. Yeah luffy beat up cracker and won against katakuri, that just leaves another 50 or so of her kids, many of whom have absurdly dangerous abilities, backed by a few tens of thousands of troops, not even counting big mom herself, no big deal right?
    Course, by the same toke, Luffy basically has too to complete some of his major life goals.


    And it's also worth it to remember, The Straw Hats were NOT operating at full force, even after they got Sanji back. Zorro, a member of there monster trio, wasn't anywhere near. Neither was Franky or Usopp or Robin, who, while not nearly on The Monster Trio's level, were still have there own tricks. (Though granted I maintain the position they all should be stepping up there game between series now and series end by noticeable amounts.).

    And they were ALSO lacking the grand fleet they picked up recently, which at the very least would have taken the pressure of weight of numbers off them by giving them something to throw at the tens of thousands of mooks + Big Mom's less formidable children, letting them focus on the bigger fish.

    And they were further, also with out the benefits of the Alliance with The Heart Pirates, most of the benefits of the alliance with The Mink Tribe, and any of the benefits of the Samurai and Ninja parts of there alliance. And that's NOT nothing to be missing either in a confrontation on this scale.


    I suspect if the Straw Hats had really brought ALL of that to bear, they might well have gotten through Whole Cake with a much wider margin. Even though Mom herself is just too high level at that point for them to take as an individual combatant in anything like a fair engagement. They'd have to either come up with some trick to take her out of the fighting, or they'd have to work something out to get multiple of there top hitters ganging up on her at once to reasonably win that at this stage.




    Which, again, is why I'm saying the Straw Hats NEED to up there game a LOT during Wano.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    I suspect if the Straw Hats had really brought ALL of that to bear, they might well have gotten through Whole Cake with a much wider margin. Even though Mom herself is just too high level at that point for them to take as an individual combatant in anything like a fair engagement. They'd have to either come up with some trick to take her out of the fighting, or they'd have to work something out to get multiple of there top hitters ganging up on her at once to reasonably win that at this stage.

    Which, again, is why I'm saying the Straw Hats NEED to up there game a LOT during Wano.
    They already did.

    1-They already dealt with Big momma, the Straw Hats actions managed to lure her away from her country and most of her forces charging into a trap that got her knocked out into the sea, leaving her isolated from all her family while inflicting enough brain damage that big momma's now a supportive member of the Straw Hats.
    2-While in cake country (which is quite open to visitors) the Straw Hats stood out like sore thumbs and had to spend most of their time hiding/running with most of the population wanting to take their heads, in super-isolationist Wano most of the Straw Hats managed to blend in just fine, befriending most of the local population along the way. And they even are working on a plan to replace the local ruler with somebody that will be quite friendly to them.
    3-Sanji not only blending in but also making full use of his retcon that daddy has super tech.
    4-Luffy himself's upgraded so much that a head-on battle isn't enough, he lets himself stay in prison with seastone shackles just to get harder training. His charisma upgraded so much he beats the crap out of his guards and they don't dare to execute him (or can't, either way Luffy's much stronker). Mark my words, when Luffy's shackles are removed, you can bet he'll go all true-super-sayan-rainbow-instinct and beat dragon yonko with big brain damage momma's help.
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Course, by the same toke, Luffy basically has too to complete some of his major life goals.


    And it's also worth it to remember, The Straw Hats were NOT operating at full force, even after they got Sanji back. Zorro, a member of there monster trio, wasn't anywhere near. Neither was Franky or Usopp or Robin, who, while not nearly on The Monster Trio's level, were still have there own tricks. (Though granted I maintain the position they all should be stepping up there game between series now and series end by noticeable amounts.).

    And they were ALSO lacking the grand fleet they picked up recently, which at the very least would have taken the pressure of weight of numbers off them by giving them something to throw at the tens of thousands of mooks + Big Mom's less formidable children, letting them focus on the bigger fish.

    And they were further, also with out the benefits of the Alliance with The Heart Pirates, most of the benefits of the alliance with The Mink Tribe, and any of the benefits of the Samurai and Ninja parts of there alliance. And that's NOT nothing to be missing either in a confrontation on this scale.


    I suspect if the Straw Hats had really brought ALL of that to bear, they might well have gotten through Whole Cake with a much wider margin. Even though Mom herself is just too high level at that point for them to take as an individual combatant in anything like a fair engagement. They'd have to either come up with some trick to take her out of the fighting, or they'd have to work something out to get multiple of there top hitters ganging up on her at once to reasonably win that at this stage.




    Which, again, is why I'm saying the Straw Hats NEED to up there game a LOT during Wano.

    If they had brought everything luffy could theoretically have called on, up to and including boa hancock and the forces of amazon lily, it would have been a marineford style slaughter and they still would have lost as they still wouldnt have had enough to win a straight up battle. Thats not even counting how very different events would have gone. Germa wouldnt have teamed up with them for example, I dunno if bege would have either. Sanji probably wouldnt have been rescued either as that was a complicated mix of events by itself. Would they have even known about the poneglyph? They certainly wouldnt have been likely to get a copy of it. Now, had they kept all the extra people hidden till the big escape that might have worked. But they also probably would have taken heavy losses in the process. By heavy losses I mean people we are likely to care about such as luffys crew, the grand fleet, and his various friends and allies. Lets face it, the fishman pirates were a nice surprise but do we know or care very much how many got out alive? You would if that had been bartos gang getting boiled alive.

    As for the straw hats missing, this is true, that would have been a help, especially zoro who could have taken on one of the big names at least, and I bet robin could have clutched large swathes of fodder out of the way. At the very least it would have been helpful on the making it to the ship portion of the adventure.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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  24. - Top - End - #54
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    In typical Oda fashion, Nami's stunt incapacitated a couple women as well.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Braininthejar2 View Post
    In typical Oda fashion, Nami's stunt incapacitated a couple women as well.
    Spoiler
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    I think this is just another occassion for him to showcase Luffy is not the strongest Strawhat. He had to learn a secret technique to incapitate an army and it doesn't even work on everyone.
    Nami just needs to undress and men, women and badasses like Sanji get taken out in an instant. She's truly terrifying.

    But yes, Queen is an idiot and deserves whatever Luffy will do. Seriously, why would you underestimate your opponent like that?

    And we finally know what Zoro is up to.
    "What's done is done."

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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    Sanji is 99% chance peeping, 1% chance on another undercover mission.
    Called it. That terrible h-word just needs to use his Stealth Black for peeping, no matter how unnecessary that may be. He also did his undercover thing, naturally.

    Also called the North Blue pals easily recognizing Stealth Black. Now if they can put two and two together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    But yes, Queen is an idiot and deserves whatever Luffy will do. Seriously, why would you underestimate your opponent like that?
    Queen's reaction to conqueror's haki is one of amusement, instead of fear or alarm. Really makes me wonder whether he is underestimating Luffy or he simply knows he can kick that rubber butt.
    Last edited by ben-zayb; 2019-03-15 at 10:40 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Well, its revealed at last whats in the mysterious cage.
    Another mythological being, and seemingly a really badass one.

    As for Queen, i think its unfair to expect him to recognise Luffy as a shonen protagonist.
    He had one of the Supernova in his cell, and has 2 others working beneath him, likely because he is only second to Kaido and King when it comes to power.

    Yes Luffy recently underwent a bit of explosive growth as he fought Dogtooth. But its likely only a handful of people who know about that.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well, its revealed at last whats in the mysterious cage.
    Another mythological being, and seemingly a really badass one.

    As for Queen, i think its unfair to expect him to recognise Luffy as a shonen protagonist.
    He had one of the Supernova in his cell, and has 2 others working beneath him, likely because he is only second to Kaido and King when it comes to power.

    Yes Luffy recently underwent a bit of explosive growth as he fought Dogtooth. But its likely only a handful of people who know about that.
    Yeah but if he reads the paper he should be aware that luffy isnt just another supernova.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Luffy is someone who's been all over the papers.

    But he's also someone Kaido effortlessly one-shotted.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: One Piece VI: Wano Piece

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    If they had brought everything luffy could theoretically have called on, up to and including boa hancock and the forces of amazon lily, it would have been a marineford style slaughter and they still would have lost as they still wouldnt have had enough to win a straight up battle. Thats not even counting how very different events would have gone. Germa wouldnt have teamed up with them for example, I dunno if bege would have either. Sanji probably wouldnt have been rescued either as that was a complicated mix of events by itself. Would they have even known about the poneglyph? They certainly wouldnt have been likely to get a copy of it. Now, had they kept all the extra people hidden till the big escape that might have worked. But they also probably would have taken heavy losses in the process. By heavy losses I mean people we are likely to care about such as luffys crew, the grand fleet, and his various friends and allies. Lets face it, the fishman pirates were a nice surprise but do we know or care very much how many got out alive? You would if that had been bartos gang getting boiled alive.

    As for the straw hats missing, this is true, that would have been a help, especially zoro who could have taken on one of the big names at least, and I bet robin could have clutched large swathes of fodder out of the way. At the very least it would have been helpful on the making it to the ship portion of the adventure.
    So, first you disagree with me, then you agree with me?

    Look, I'm not referring to just going in for a straight up battle, I was referring to the escape portion of the program. The one that was being referenced as "It's insane that after these 3 named factors double crossed them and all the massive screw ups on the family's part that they STILL had such an insane time getting away!".

    Yeah, they had those things, but again, they didn't go in with all they could have loaded up and ready to bust out at a timely moment.

    Now yes, they would have taken losses. Of course they would have, never said they wouldn't. And yes, there was still the problem of Big Mom being more than any one of them could handle, I even acknowledged that. Indeed, the fact that so far Luffy has butted heads with 2 Yonko personally and couldn't accomplish squat in that personal physical confrontation is why I maintain, if Oda's Going to have Luffy and Shanks keep the promise effectively an not just kill Shanks off against Blackbeard or something (which would be needless, Luffy already wants Blackbeards head for what happened to Ace to Advance Blackbeards plans.), Luffy needs to get too that level were he can square up with a Yonko and at least have a decent chance at winning.

    And his core crew need to get to were they can deal with a Yonko's core crew at a mostly even keel.
    "I Burn!"

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