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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Artillerist 3/Evoker 10 FTW cranking out Wands of Magic Missiles! You can make two wands every week for 100 gp each, and with Int 20 each wand does 9 x (d4+6) auto-damage when you use it on full blast, for an average of 76.5 auto-damage. The wand takes about two days to recover full power, but who cares? You can easily have dozens of them anyway.

    If you don't want to risk 5% chance of burning out a wand you can use them at almost full power instead.
    I like the way AD&D PCs are grounded in mythic fantasy archetypes. 5E has too much HP inflation and too few consequences... In AD&D 2nd edition, a high-level fighter can potentially fall from orbit and survive the 20d6 HP of damage (plus saving throw vs. death) that entails, and be perfectly healthy again only a few weeks later; in 5E, a 6th level wizard can fall from orbit and not only survive but be perfectly healthy again only a few hours later. I feel the AD&D way leads to better adventures.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Honestly the more I read it the more I like it. I really want to try one

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Yeah, as it should. Good thing they get hand crossbows too for XBE

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Absutely not going to allow the turrets. That ain't even close to DnD for me.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    BTW, no one is commenting on the new spell. It's basically hunters mark on steroids.
    Agree, I wonder what is the reason for it. We already have Hex, Elemental Weapon, Hunter's Mark etc. Why the hell add yet again a new spell that does the same.

    So next class will get: "Golden Weapon" on level 1? "Weapon deals extra 1d8 dmg for 24 hours because we couldn't think of anything better".

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    I'd be kinda interested in something exactly between the two subclasses, a sort of generalist.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Artillerist 3/Evoker 10 FTW cranking out Wands of Magic Missiles! You can make two wands every week for 100 gp each, and with Int 20 each wand does 9 x (d4+6) auto-damage when you use it on full blast, for an average of 76.5 auto-damage. The wand takes about two days to recover full power, but who cares? You can easily have dozens of them anyway.

    If you don't want to risk 5% chance of burning out a wand you can use them at almost full power instead.
    Nice combo! But broken too, I hope they fix it before release. I already see downtime sheningangs getting tons of Magic Missle Wands and auto-killing everything.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    BTW, no one is commenting on the new spell. It's basically hunters mark on steroids.
    it's definitely an upgrade to hunter's mark since you don't have to swap targets with it, but it doesn't mesh nicely with the bonus action attacks that the class gives itself. Definitely nice on a fighter with a dip for it, but it's not breaking any new ground in my opinion.
    Spoiler: bad tactics
    Show


    I look at the lich and smirk a bit, as I bring myself back to my feet

    "What are you smiling about?" it says

    "hehe, it looks like you've made... a grave mistake :D"

    the bard, actively bleeding out on the ground *ba-dum-tss*

    "Ha! Nice try. Telling a bad joke to try to make your opponent drop their guard. Oldest trick in the book. Trust me, I was there."

    *barbarian falling, sword in hands, from the top of the castle wall directly above the lich*


  9. - Top - End - #39
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Refluff them as unstable portals to the elemental plane of Earth. Shoot tiny rocks, and later on provides small chunks of earth that work for half cover

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Rules issue they missed:

    You can make a new alchemical homunculus after a long rest, but that kills the first one. If your homunculus was killed within the past hour, you can raise it by spending a first level spell slot, and there are no consequences beyond the loss of spell slot. This sounds like lenient interpretation minion cheese in the making.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound438 View Post
    it's definitely an upgrade to hunter's mark since you don't have to swap targets with it, but it doesn't mesh nicely with the bonus action attacks that the class gives itself. Definitely nice on a fighter with a dip for it, but it's not breaking any new ground in my opinion.
    Why doesn't it mesh well? You aren't gonna be swapping elements all that often

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anymage View Post
    Rules issue they missed:

    You can make a new alchemical homunculus after a long rest, but that kills the first one. If your homunculus was killed within the past hour, you can raise it by spending a first level spell slot, and there are no consequences beyond the loss of spell slot. This sounds like lenient interpretation minion cheese in the making.
    True, but not that directly exploitable since you only get a single bonus action.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    PirateCaptain

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    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    Absutely not going to allow the turrets. That ain't even close to DnD for me.
    I mean you can fluff them as balls of magical energy which fire out the magic imbued in them by the caster at his direction if you like. Or hell just as an enchanted suit of animated armour, letting loose blasts of magic with a wave of his hand.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    thoroughlyS's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound438 View Post
    Oof, if you're a fan of ranger seeing this guy's pet tupperware getting significantly more HP than your wolf has to hurt.
    Honestly, the resource-free healing hurts more. Even revised ranger didn't get that.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhound438 View Post
    it's definitely an upgrade to hunter's mark since you don't have to swap targets with it, but it doesn't mesh nicely with the bonus action attacks that the class gives itself. Definitely nice on a fighter with a dip for it, but it's not breaking any new ground in my opinion.
    Yeah, it get's pretty obsolate later anyway when you have better conc buffs like Shadow Blade, Haste, Holy Weapon and so on. However I still think it's lazy as hell to introduce YET ANOTHER spell simillar to Hunter's Mark. They could instead of another 1d6 make giving weapon +1 to hit for 1 hour or something like that. Something different.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu View Post
    Nice combo! But broken too, I hope they fix it before release. I already see downtime sheningangs getting tons of Magic Missle Wands and auto-killing everything.
    There's not much to be done really, unless you want to fix the Evoker. Artillerist just does it faster and cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anymage View Post
    Rules issue they missed:

    You can make a new alchemical homunculus after a long rest, but that kills the first one. If your homunculus was killed within the past hour, you can raise it by spending a first level spell slot, and there are no consequences beyond the loss of spell slot. This sounds like lenient interpretation minion cheese in the making.
    Hmmm. If you then make a third homonculus, would that kill the second one, the first one, or both? :-)
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-02-28 at 07:54 PM.
    I like the way AD&D PCs are grounded in mythic fantasy archetypes. 5E has too much HP inflation and too few consequences... In AD&D 2nd edition, a high-level fighter can potentially fall from orbit and survive the 20d6 HP of damage (plus saving throw vs. death) that entails, and be perfectly healthy again only a few weeks later; in 5E, a 6th level wizard can fall from orbit and not only survive but be perfectly healthy again only a few hours later. I feel the AD&D way leads to better adventures.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    I gotta say I'm really enjoying this Artificer, but the crowning jewel for me has to be that you can use any artisan's tools as your spellcasting focus because it covers so much conceptual ground. All at once the door has been flung open for a wide range of character concepts, just looking at the artisan tool list we have:

    Painter's Tools - An artist that uses the magic of drawing to create magical effects and creatures.
    Mason's Tools - A stoneworker who in a Pygmalion-esque fashion brings statues to life to do his bidding.
    Weaver's Tools - A Seamstress who literally knits spells and constructs together from the weave.
    Smith's Tools - A smith who builds machines that can replicate spell and be used for combat. In particular I'm imagining a grumpy dwarf smith who scoffs at magic and says his stuff is only "spell-like" and that his machines are always better.
    Cooks Utensils - A Chef whose homunculus is an actual man made of gingerbread, and its alchemical salve is offering itself up to be eaten by other party members.

    And that's just off the top of my head. You could probably think of any sort of profession or craft, tie it to the nearest analogue in the artisan tools table (or a component pouch if all else fails, or maybe your own special tool because artisan tools were mostly fluff before Xanathar's anyway) and through the magic of "being really good at something" you've got yourself a D&D character.

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoroughlyS View Post
    Honestly, the resource-free healing hurts more. Even revised ranger didn't get that.
    Was about to mention that. What is the point of giving Artificier basicelly better pet that have HP that scales with him (on level 10 that Hommunculus have 50 HP flat) while rangers are many times stuck with pet much weaker than that. And free-healing is imo little broken.

    Maybe he should burn slot to heal it (more healing then) simillar of how Moon Druids can.

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorel View Post
    Smith's Tools - A smith who builds machines that can replicate spell and be used for combat. In particular I'm imagining a grumpy dwarf smith who scoffs at magic and says his stuff is only "spell-like" and that his machines are always better.
    Hahahaha, then a wizard Counterspells his stuff and smirks. "Face it, dude, they're just spells."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu View Post
    Was about to mention that. What is the point of giving Artificier basicelly better pet that have HP that scales with him (on level 10 that Hommunculus have 50 HP flat) while rangers are many times stuck with pet much weaker than that. And free-healing is imo little broken.

    Maybe he should burn slot to heal it (more healing then) simillar of how Moon Druids can.
    Only, the Ranger has access to Healing Spirit, which in practical terms is basically infinite healing already.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2019-02-28 at 07:58 PM.
    I like the way AD&D PCs are grounded in mythic fantasy archetypes. 5E has too much HP inflation and too few consequences... In AD&D 2nd edition, a high-level fighter can potentially fall from orbit and survive the 20d6 HP of damage (plus saving throw vs. death) that entails, and be perfectly healthy again only a few weeks later; in 5E, a 6th level wizard can fall from orbit and not only survive but be perfectly healthy again only a few hours later. I feel the AD&D way leads to better adventures.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu View Post
    Yeah, it get's pretty obsolate later anyway when you have better conc buffs like Shadow Blade, Haste, Holy Weapon and so on. However I still think it's lazy as hell to introduce YET ANOTHER spell simillar to Hunter's Mark. They could instead of another 1d6 make giving weapon +1 to hit for 1 hour or something like that. Something different.
    Yeah, it's not as good as those, however, for a 3rd lvl spell you can have the buff active for essentially the whole day. Haste and SB last a single encounter.
    Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2019-02-28 at 08:00 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    jaappleton's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Arcane Weapon is there for the last line.

    Your weapon is now considered magical.

    Couple that with Arcane Armament... Now you can attack twice.

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu View Post
    Was about to mention that. What is the point of giving Artificier basicelly better pet that have HP that scales with him (on level 10 that Hommunculus have 50 HP flat) while rangers are many times stuck with pet much weaker than that. And free-healing is imo little broken.

    Maybe he should burn slot to heal it (more healing then) simillar of how Moon Druids can.
    I mean...should we be using Beastmaster as the standard here? I feel 'this is better than Beastmaster' should be praise, not criticism.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Arcane Weapon is there for the last line.

    Your weapon is now considered magical.

    Couple that with Arcane Armament... Now you can attack twice.
    Hmm yeah, but by the time you get Arcane Armament you could have already taken the weapon infusion, and you will likely do it anyways to give magic weapon to the entire party

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    then a wizard Counterspells his stuff and smirks. "Face it, dude, they're just spells."
    Which is in a way one of those horrible traps involved in reskinning or refluffing in general.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-02-28 at 08:03 PM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrast View Post
    I mean...should we be using Beastmaster as the standard here? I feel 'this is better than Beastmaster' should be praise, not criticism.
    Beast master is the only subclass exclusively dedicated to getting a pet. Thus all pets are rightly compared to it. Even if it's only to mock the poor phb ranger

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    You could also view it as a replacement for Arcane Trickster. One of my first thoughts was to multi-class with the rogue for a souped up arcane trickster, but the artificer already gets proficiency and expertise with thieves tools and the capstone abilities at 18 and 20 are pretty good, so it might not be worth the rogue dip. Yes, you lose all kinds of rogue benefits, but you gain all kinds of magical items benefits.

    I like the artificer. IMHO, it was worth the delay and making us wait until the end of the day on the last day in February.

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    There's some neat stuff here. I actually do miss the magic gun, but eh.

    what's weirder to me is just that it's still a "magic item" class that doesn't get UMD. I was going to question the wand crafting, but it looks like none of the wands actually HAD requirements for specific class attunement, just any spellcaster. So, alright.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Hmm yeah, but by the time you get Arcane Armament you could have already taken the weapon infusion, and you will likely do it anyways to give magic weapon to the entire party
    Quote Originally Posted by UA
    each of your infusions
    can be in only one object at a time
    I believe you can only have one Enhanced Weapon on the go at a time.


    Edit -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Beast master is the only subclass exclusively dedicated to getting a pet. Thus all pets are rightly compared to it. Even if it's only to mock the poor phb ranger
    Right but...why is it a bad thing that its better than the ranger? Or do we agree that its a good thing?
    Last edited by Contrast; 2019-02-28 at 08:09 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Yeah, it's not as good as those, however, for a 3rd lvl spell you can have the buff active for essentially the whole day. Haste and SB last a single encounter.
    True, but is still concentration. Now way to waste conc on 1d6 buff for a weapon while on 3rd level and above spells you have tons of great concentration spells. Even if that is 8 hours.

    Also imo Counterspell could be very problematic for Artificer.

    But I could see Artificier 6/Wizard 14 to be some utility master. But then again- aren't wizards already a utility masters and Bladesingers also get extra attack?

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: The Artificer is here

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Hahahaha, then a wizard Counterspells his stuff and smirks. "Face it, dude, they're just spells."
    No that was a "spell-like effect" . And the artificer isn't merely spells. He's got companions that can't be counterspelled and a decent combat option with Enhance Weapon allowing for extra attacks. I think you can still go very engineer with this even if it's technically a spellcaster.

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